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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisiblePinkerton
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Next Gen thinkers
    #28440669 - 08/20/23 01:36 PM (5 months, 6 days ago)

Will they accomplish anything the old generation (OC, Diploid, Icelander, RGVs, LunarEclipse, MtG et al.) was not able to?

It takes a supergenius, if there is no such I believe we are at status quo passing on the torch in 40 years.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28440705 - 08/20/23 02:26 PM (5 months, 6 days ago)

"a million ambassadors of mo(u)rning" pink floyd -


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28440716 - 08/20/23 02:34 PM (5 months, 6 days ago)

:blank:


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28440720 - 08/20/23 02:38 PM (5 months, 6 days ago)

So what do you think, RGVs?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28440750 - 08/20/23 02:57 PM (5 months, 5 days ago)

:blink:


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28440928 - 08/20/23 05:52 PM (5 months, 5 days ago)

Magicians trick. Pining as a marked period subsequent to episodes of excitement.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28441107 - 08/20/23 09:01 PM (5 months, 5 days ago)

So you phrased this thread based on shroomery members I think, but let me talk about the concept broadly:

Everyone stands on the shoulders of giants. Some people say that we never again will reach the intellectual dynamism of classical Athens, and that no one since has the intelligence of a Socrates. But even if that's true, everyone else who lives since has the benefit of being able to learn about Socrates and emulate him.

So culture will never be static because people will always learn from the old geniuses and try to emulate them. And even if we never match up to them, we can develop ourselves bit by bit. It won't remain the same. The status quo will have the benefit of accumulated knowledge.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #28441132 - 08/20/23 09:52 PM (5 months, 5 days ago)

agreed we stand on their shoulders,
but we find our own way or fake it.
emulating would be faking it.

understand them as best we can,
and understand ourselves.

showing up and being present is most of the deal.
most of the time we are just not comfortable in our own skins. I think it starts with that.
it might even end with that.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28441152 - 08/20/23 10:18 PM (5 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
agreed we stand on their shoulders,
but we find our own way or fake it.
emulating would be faking it.

understand them as best we can,
and understand ourselves.

showing up and being present is most of the deal.
most of the time we are just not comfortable in our own skins. I think it starts with that.
it might even end with that.




It reminds me of a quote.

In the spirit of the thread, I'll quote the quote. But not in the idea that we should follow it as law. Rather, the quote is asking a question of the reader, and trying to measure their relation to their own ideals, and to the ideals of others.

Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols:

Quote:


37 You run ahead? Are you doing it as a shepherd? Or as an exception? A third case would be as a fugitive. First question of conscience.

38 Are you genuine? Or merely an actor? A representative? Or that which is represented? In the end, perhaps you are merely a copy of an actor. Second question of conscience.

40 Are you one who looks on? Or one who lends a hand? Or one who looks away and walks off? Third question of conscience.

41 Do you want to walk along? Or walk ahead? Or walk by yourself? One must know what one wants and that one wants. Fourth question of conscience.

39 The disappointed one speaks. I searched for great human beings; I always found only the imitators of their ideals.





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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28441255 - 08/21/23 04:34 AM (5 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
:blink:



That could mean a lot of things.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #28441263 - 08/21/23 05:22 AM (5 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

CreonAntigone said:
So you phrased this thread based on shroomery members I think, but let me talk about the concept broadly:

Everyone stands on the shoulders of giants. Some people say that we never again will reach the intellectual dynamism of classical Athens, and that no one since has the intelligence of a Socrates. But even if that's true, everyone else who lives since has the benefit of being able to learn about Socrates and emulate him.

So culture will never be static because people will always learn from the old geniuses and try to emulate them. And even if we never match up to them, we can develop ourselves bit by bit. It won't remain the same. The status quo will have the benefit of accumulated knowledge.




Perhaps rose colored glasses. We stand on the shoulders of others, who in turn stood on someone's shoulders. I think whoever's at the bottom is perpetually sinking in the mud.

Otherwise said "nothing new under the Sun".

Enjoy the view while it lasts.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Rahz]
    #28441315 - 08/21/23 07:18 AM (5 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
...
Otherwise said "nothing new under the Sun"...




Just as Nietsche struggled with his categorizations (which is a limiting compulsive perceptual habit) into lists,
you are also avoiding nuance and hammering your otherwise category.

every nuanced thing is constantly being renewed under the sun if you pay attention.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28441364 - 08/21/23 08:06 AM (5 months, 5 days ago)

Yeah, the patience of a sphinx would be a cool attribute.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28441376 - 08/21/23 08:18 AM (5 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
every nuanced thing is constantly being renewed under the sun if you pay attention.




COOL! that is so good for us
!
be sure to get to drawing too to have it ok and to have it good while it lasts

that renewing is like meditation
makes us finer and sharper and wiser


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Ferdinando] * 1
    #28441507 - 08/21/23 09:36 AM (5 months, 5 days ago)

The human species of course would not last over 100 years if we did not constantly renew by creating versions of ourselves that are like us, and when we die, these people like us are then tasked with doing all the things we used to do. Constant renewal is a need of biological creatures.


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28441537 - 08/21/23 10:09 AM (5 months, 5 days ago)

You tha man, RGV's!!! :cool:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #28441549 - 08/21/23 10:21 AM (5 months, 5 days ago)

except for biological needs food + sleep etc.,
everything I used to do is now largely obsolete and not being done by the generation that followed nor by their issue (who are still very young, but already pressing colored glass buttons that never even existed 50 years ago - as proscribed by pink fong).



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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28441569 - 08/21/23 10:40 AM (5 months, 5 days ago)

You are the wise defender and I am the x-factor attacker. :heart:


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28441570 - 08/21/23 10:40 AM (5 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
except for biological needs food + sleep etc.,
everything I used to do is now largely obsolete and not being done by the generation that followed nor by their issue (who are still very young, but already pressing colored glass buttons that never even existed 50 years ago - as proscribed by pink fong).





The specific tasks are different. But the moral, ethical and political needs are quite similar. Later as now as before, people will need to learn to navigate competing visions for the future and acute social differences, and try to create an amicable resolution.

Some things politically speaking will never change, unless the human race were to become something different than what it is.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28441571 - 08/21/23 10:40 AM (5 months, 5 days ago)

:flamethrow:


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28441598 - 08/21/23 11:00 AM (5 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
...
Otherwise said "nothing new under the Sun"...




Just as Nietsche struggled with his categorizations (which is a limiting compulsive perceptual habit) into lists,
you are also avoiding nuance and hammering your otherwise category.

every nuanced thing is constantly being renewed under the sun if you pay attention.




Sounds like a cycle.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Rahz]
    #28441661 - 08/21/23 12:08 PM (5 months, 5 days ago)

There is much to learn from the wheel world about change.

our brains are hardwired for it, we just do not notice what does not change, even the stream of consciousness is in a continuous process of flushing out of what just was a big deal and flushing in the next conundrum.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28441690 - 08/21/23 12:32 PM (5 months, 5 days ago)

"Heraclitus, I believe, says that all things pass and nothing stays, and comparing existing things to the flow of a river, he says you could not step twice into the same river." (Plato Cratylus 402a = A6)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #28441725 - 08/21/23 01:02 PM (5 months, 5 days ago)

it is true who ever says it


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #28441726 - 08/21/23 01:02 PM (5 months, 5 days ago)

Nothing ever happens twice, the notion especially true in the context of a single life. But the more things change the more they stay the same. I think there's hubris involved in the idea that the stack of giants on each others shoulders gets taller and taller. It's been technology, not the understanding of psychology that has lifted humans up. And yet, for all it's done people are generally unhappy, ungrateful, divided, mentally ill, etc. I could make a list of all the awful ways humans treat each other despite the advantages of the modern world, but I don't think there's a need.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Rahz]
    #28441755 - 08/21/23 01:17 PM (5 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
... people are generally unhappy, ungrateful, divided, mentally ill, etc...



some of that is true for many people some of the time, but not all of it all of the time.
And that unsatisfactoriness has been with us since we were wriggling worms a half billion years ago.

your attitude to it, however, is subject to change.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28441778 - 08/21/23 01:29 PM (5 months, 5 days ago)

I don't think that contradicts anything I've said on the matter so I have no disagreement.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Rahz]
    #28442016 - 08/21/23 06:04 PM (5 months, 4 days ago)

You may not disagree with me but I will strike out what is untrue  or just misleading, maybe you will still have no argument

Quote:

Rahz said:
Nothing ever happens twice, the notion especially true in the context of a single life.
But the more things change the more they stay the same.
I think there's hubris involved in the idea that the stack of giants on each others shoulders gets taller and taller.
It's been technology, not the understanding of psychology that has lifted humans up. And yet, for all it's done people are generally unhappy, ungrateful, divided, mentally ill, etc. I could make a list of all the awful ways humans treat each other despite the advantages of the modern world, but I don't think there's a need.




I realize that much of what I struck out is meaningless casual bar talk, or aphorismic gearing up to delivering your punch.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28442086 - 08/21/23 07:26 PM (5 months, 4 days ago)

I believe there's plenty of hubris in individuals comparing themselves, their culture, society, technology to previous generations and/or idealizing some point in history when things were superior. This idea that we're going higher or were higher is a farce and is what prevents the modicum of sanity which would be necessary to collectively make it so.

Pinkerton made a good point and I think such observations are the modicum of sanity. But an individual doesn't need to be a super genius, nor do they need to change the world, nor do they even need to stand on the shoulders of giants. Results vary but it's not an alien function to want to be humble, to recognize bias and hubris is a feature of the human primate, and appreciate whatever growth they experience through these realizations and the suffering that is perceived regarding such base natures.

If I see someone experiencing an unpleasant truth, I'm at least glad they see truth because that is often what it takes to let go of misplaced responsibility, and in doing so perhaps discover something more realistic and functional. Perhaps we have different opinions on what the truth is, and that is fine but "meaningless bar talk" seems like empty rhetoric to me.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Rahz]
    #28442115 - 08/21/23 07:47 PM (5 months, 4 days ago)

exactly


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28444118 - 08/23/23 04:37 PM (5 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
exactly



That is RGVs cover name for free extasy. I am down.

:excited:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28444142 - 08/23/23 04:57 PM (5 months, 2 days ago)

I do not wish to quibble


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28444181 - 08/23/23 05:25 PM (5 months, 2 days ago)

You do not want to have fun?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28444239 - 08/23/23 06:11 PM (5 months, 2 days ago)

ok, how do you play quibble?


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28444596 - 08/23/23 11:36 PM (5 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
ok, how do you play quibble?




Https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/289591/quibbles

"Players each select 20 tiles and try to use them all in a complete crossword. When the tiles are all used that player shouts "GRAB" and all players must pick up an extra tile. Bad Boy Tiles are Wild and can be used as any letter. When a Bad Boy Tile is picked up a Bad Boy Card must also be selected from the pile."


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28444940 - 08/24/23 10:39 AM (5 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
ok, how do you play quibble?



One flirts with Monopoly! :cookiemonster:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28444942 - 08/24/23 10:39 AM (5 months, 2 days ago)

I hope you get paid


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28445056 - 08/24/23 12:34 PM (5 months, 2 days ago)

Ask OrgoneConclusion.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28445060 - 08/24/23 12:38 PM (5 months, 2 days ago)

$$ not likely then


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28445067 - 08/24/23 12:43 PM (5 months, 2 days ago)

Cheer me up, RGVs! :heart:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28445096 - 08/24/23 01:08 PM (5 months, 2 days ago)

go 'way


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Next Gen thinkers [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28445153 - 08/24/23 01:54 PM (5 months, 2 days ago)



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