|
solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
|
I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens
#28436561 - 08/16/23 09:55 PM (5 months, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Impossible to really describe, but I just get the sense that the universe makes sense on entheogens.
Hard to explain, but it feels like everything is reconciled allegorically.
I don't know how I so missed "this".
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
|
solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28436565 - 08/16/23 09:58 PM (5 months, 9 days ago) |
|
|
I feel like I finally get why people say the things they do, in particular. Like, there's a psychical reason behind it.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
|
jack_straw2208
Doctor



Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 3,115
Loc: Earth
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28436576 - 08/16/23 10:05 PM (5 months, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Lol yeah free will is an illusion, everything is just a big math equation solving itself and it's pointless to stress about your direction as long as you keep smiling and breathing and looking for beauty
-------------------- If you can’t tell what you desperately need, it’s probably sleep.
|
solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: jack_straw2208]
#28436580 - 08/16/23 10:08 PM (5 months, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
jack_straw2208 said: Lol yeah free will is an illusion, everything is just a big math equation solving itself and it's pointless to stress about your direction as long as you keep smiling and breathing and looking for beauty
Fuck yeah!
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
|
solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28436596 - 08/16/23 10:33 PM (5 months, 9 days ago) |
|
|
"He said he was tired of my acting as an ultimately important being that has to be given proof over and over that the world is unknown and marvelous."
I don't get it. How do you deal with spiritual awakening?
Retort and retorter.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
|
Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,309
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28437130 - 08/17/23 12:49 PM (5 months, 8 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
solarshroomster said:
I don't get it. How do you deal with spiritual awakening?
"Looking for clues at the scene of the crime..."- suits my reference point: Apparently a very old crime in which the cast of characters still exists.
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28437152 - 08/17/23 01:02 PM (5 months, 8 days ago) |
|
|
"How do you deal with spiritual awakening?" to me can be the same question as, "Why does the mystical world hide itself?" both of which may be inverting the question in a sense. The mystical world does not hide itself, but the cause by which we hide it from ourselves is hidden. Just like, spiritual awakening needs no 'dealing with' as it is the wonder and awe - the question being, how do you deal with coming back to normal waking reality? Or, how do you deal with the self's identification with bodies?
Nit-picking perhaps, but to me some potential clarification.
|
BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 2 days, 7 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro] 2
#28437641 - 08/17/23 09:29 PM (5 months, 8 days ago) |
|
|
When you can sense that you understand where things belong.. and they go there..
Moksha!
|
FishOilTheKid
Ascended



Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 5,401
Last seen: 19 hours, 40 minutes
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: BrendanFlock] 2
#28437921 - 08/18/23 07:35 AM (5 months, 8 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
How do you deal with spiritual awakening?
Acceptance/Surrender
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: FishOilTheKid] 1
#28438012 - 08/18/23 09:26 AM (5 months, 7 days ago) |
|
|
Entheogens, thnx! 
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: The Blind Ass] 1
#28438042 - 08/18/23 10:01 AM (5 months, 7 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Entheogens, thnx! 
Damn, good song. Thank you.
For showing me, I'm not alone.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28438052 - 08/18/23 10:12 AM (5 months, 7 days ago) |
|
|
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28438312 - 08/18/23 03:17 PM (5 months, 7 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
syncro said: "How do you deal with spiritual awakening?" to me can be the same question as, "Why does the mystical world hide itself?" both of which may be inverting the question in a sense. The mystical world does not hide itself, but the cause by which we hide it from ourselves is hidden. Just like, spiritual awakening needs no 'dealing with' as it is the wonder and awe - the question being, how do you deal with coming back to normal waking reality? Or, how do you deal with the self's identification with bodies?
Nit-picking perhaps, but to me some potential clarification.
Wow! This is incredible.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
|
solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28438563 - 08/18/23 07:32 PM (5 months, 7 days ago) |
|
|
"feels like" creating worlds.
frog. pond. plop!
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Edited by solarshroomster (08/18/23 07:33 PM)
|
solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28438582 - 08/18/23 07:55 PM (5 months, 7 days ago) |
|
|
"hallucinations" are (like) not what I thought. You're really "there".
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Edited by solarshroomster (08/18/23 09:21 PM)
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28438719 - 08/18/23 10:07 PM (5 months, 7 days ago) |
|
|
I was watching some talks by a teacher, Igor Kufayev, around entheogens, and tantric views.
To include some final comments he said: "Make whatever you will of all this, and do not fear. That's the whole point. Do not fear. Nothing can touch or affect you. The knowledge of that has to be firmly, firmly rooted. You have to be rooted in that understanding.
... only you can contemplate, whether you find answers or not, you need to be rooted in that understanding, of the utter eternity of who you are, that you cannot be touched, by any of this, whilst at the very same time, it is only in you that the destiny of all this what's happening is decided. This is the greatest of the paradoxical nature of that relationship. That's what it means to walk the path of the heart."
What does it mean, to me? Trust in you.
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28439016 - 08/19/23 08:38 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
I wrote this yesterday but had not posted.
Re: the body Well, I thought it kind of a drag, but what to do with the body is an issue having reluctance. I want to fly etc., to be sovereign, or at least that is said.
I was watching a talk around entheogens and mentioned was great aid to cellular memory. I took that whatever we do, being in the meditations or trips, works to agitate that social base of perception.
On another topic by that same teacher, Igor Kufayev, in tantric perspective, said all we are in is the energy of the Earth, and Eros is one with it (correction, I misunderstood with his accent, he was only saying eros here, and not earth), and is everything. All of it is erotic, in an inclusive sense. This is seen regardless of the path.
I took again that remembering love of the earth which can be confused in the transcendent perspectives as something of which to rid ourselves, earth densities, attachment and such, but lack of love or attention is exactly the problem with our perceptions of earth and body.
For me it went to any exercise or contemplation we do for meditation or bodily purification is one and the same, eros, consciousness, love for the absolute, the earth and even the body in an awakened perspective. It added dimension to practice, inclusion.
That said, I refer back as I've mentioned that there are specific practices to, as all of them must, purify the bodies. The senses in their source reflective qualities, are free. The bodies, mind, are not held to this perception.
I may be over emphasizing as well, the methods of bodily purification in the elements, as they are only in preparation, though considered a key necessity. Just a simple sincere exercise like mindfulness works to do it anyway, I believe, perhaps by adding for the purpose a bit of extra time with the intention in whatever practice.
I'm not a practicing tripper, but have in the past, and I think something of this may be useful as a preparing intention there as well. In other words, in every juncture, from waking to sleep, sleep to waking, driving, eating, and especially for the spiritual or altered adventures, contemplate an intention, a prayer, mantra, meditation, saying or being it.
Edited by syncro (08/19/23 06:11 PM)
|
Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,309
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28439019 - 08/19/23 08:46 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
"All of it is erotic, in an inclusive sense"
And how we may underplay the role of friction in eroticism.
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28439031 - 08/19/23 09:05 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
One thing he mentioned about entheogens, the phenomena of one doing in this case mostly ayahuasca, where something he called immersion occurs, and after, the person said they no longer need to do ayahuasca as it, the immersion, is in him always. This would follow as Kufayev I think is a tantric yogi at the core. No judgement. I may have some bias but I'm not one to talk on chemical dependence which doesn't even apply to psychs but for perhaps that psych dependability.
I guess he has a little more bias than I thought in his talk around reproducibility in attempts at measured testing, meditation vs tripping, but he was way into them, some connection with Leary and extensive experimentation.
He said some profound stuff around eros and tantra. I thought I had another thing there not remembering. processing ... here it is.
He reverses the idea of restriction, that typical fixation is the restriction on the wholeness of what eros is.
|
Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,309
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28439036 - 08/19/23 09:10 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
The wholeness of eros:
A higher love with a brain massage.
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: Buster_Brown]
#28439051 - 08/19/23 09:24 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
"Buster_Brown said: "All of it is erotic, in an inclusive sense"
And how we may underplay the role of friction in eroticism."
I'm chafing.
"The wholeness of eros:
A higher love with a brain massage."
I'll take it!
The words fall in line with everything else. The difference is in making gaps in consciousness.
|
solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28439054 - 08/19/23 09:26 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Frog Pond Plop!
This makes so much sense now. Thank you..!!
Here's a good explanation of it, I've found helpful:
https://www.davidkellypoetry.com/frog-pond-plop.html
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
|
Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,309
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28439078 - 08/19/23 09:49 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
In "Hey Jude" the protagonist is advised to 'let it under his skin' in order to begin making a sad song better.
A trick maybe to let nothing under your skin except the need to be a channel for higher purposes.
Edited by Buster_Brown (08/19/23 09:50 AM)
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28439082 - 08/19/23 09:51 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Typestracts.
I like the idea of bolding the three Os in frOg pOnd plOp representing the circle of Zen type.
|
CreonAntigone
Stranger

Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: Buster_Brown] 1
#28439084 - 08/19/23 09:53 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Here's the issue. I've felt this way, especially on mescaline. And for me, it lasted about one week. Not enough time.
If I used less drugs on a regular basis, I'd be able to stretch that feeling of unity far longer - I'd be able to reflect on the experience and bring it into everyday life for longer.
So moderation in the use of these drugs is key to absorbing any of these insights, lest they pass you by, replaced by nonsense.
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: Buster_Brown]
#28439085 - 08/19/23 09:55 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Buster_Brown said: In "Hey Jude" the protagonist is advised to 'let it under his skin' in order to begin making a sad song better.
A trick maybe to let nothing under your skin except the need to be a channel for higher purposes.
More viable may be herding cats. But they can do their thing. I'm cat sitting for a time.
|
solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: CreonAntigone]
#28439087 - 08/19/23 09:56 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
CreonAntigone said: Here's the issue. I've felt this way, especially on mescaline. And for me, it lasted about one week. Not enough time.
If I used less drugs on a regular basis, I'd be able to stretch that feeling of unity far longer - I'd be able to reflect on the experience and bring it into everyday life for longer.
So moderation in the use of these drugs is key to absorbing any of these insights, lest they pass you by, replaced by nonsense.
I don't understand why I'm now just expected to be getting these insights and act as if it was no big deal. Time and time again, people keep telling me you shouldn't be going on and on about how you are so surprised, but I'm indeed very surprised, because none of this fit into my worldview previously, and I doubt it would have ever come to light without my use of entheogens.
I would not have known any of this had it not been for my use of entheogens. They forced me to "see".
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28439094 - 08/19/23 10:05 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Surprise is the same as the awe and wonder, appreciation. Of course you should be. Those experiences are defined by the exhilarant, if not also very calm nevertheless.
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28439103 - 08/19/23 10:12 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Your surprise is a teacher here, imo. You're telling everyone to wake up. !
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: CreonAntigone] 1
#28439106 - 08/19/23 10:16 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
"lest they pass you by"
They always seem to pass by. So the knowing we all are reaching for is intuitive, beyond words. We forgot the concept, but a knowing is there asking for attention.
|
CreonAntigone
Stranger

Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster] 2
#28439110 - 08/19/23 10:20 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
solarshroomster said:
Quote:
CreonAntigone said: Here's the issue. I've felt this way, especially on mescaline. And for me, it lasted about one week. Not enough time.
If I used less drugs on a regular basis, I'd be able to stretch that feeling of unity far longer - I'd be able to reflect on the experience and bring it into everyday life for longer.
So moderation in the use of these drugs is key to absorbing any of these insights, lest they pass you by, replaced by nonsense.
I don't understand why I'm now just expected to be getting these insights and act as if it was no big deal. Time and time again, people keep telling me you shouldn't be going on and on about how you are so surprised, but I'm indeed very surprised, because none of this fit into my worldview previously, and I doubt it would have ever come to light without my use of entheogens.
I would not have known any of this had it not been for my use of entheogens. They forced me to "see".
My suggestion is, if you phrase your same experience as a 'spiritual experience' and don't mention the drugs, people will understand a bit better. They stigmatize drugs, yet they have the same kind of experiences in their own religious views.
People don't tolerate drugs yet. You can think it of it like a persecuted religion if you wish (though it's not exactly right).
Keep in mind ancient people actually intentionally hid the drugs they used... they'd talk about the benefits of their religious mysteries, but they didn't talk about how it was an enthogenic potion that brought it about. In fact, that part of it was strictly regulated as a state secret, and one could be exiled for talking about it, even though everyone knew it.
In a sense I can see it as a courtesy to others. They didn't have the same drug experience. So to speak on their level, drug experiences must be converted to regular language.
|
solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: CreonAntigone]
#28439180 - 08/19/23 11:28 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
CreonAntigone said: My suggestion is, if you phrase your same experience as a 'spiritual experience' and don't mention the drugs, people will understand a bit better. They stigmatize drugs, yet they have the same kind of experiences in their own religious views.
People don't tolerate drugs yet. You can think it of it like a persecuted religion if you wish (though it's not exactly right).
Keep in mind ancient people actually intentionally hid the drugs they used... they'd talk about the benefits of their religious mysteries, but they didn't talk about how it was an enthogenic potion that brought it about. In fact, that part of it was strictly regulated as a state secret, and one could be exiled for talking about it, even though everyone knew it.
In a sense I can see it as a courtesy to others. They didn't have the same drug experience. So to speak on their level, drug experiences must be converted to regular language.
Another genius post. Yes, I agree, to talk about mystical experiences in more general terms, as opposed to "entheogenic experiences". However, a question I have is... are people really having mystical experiences outside of drugs? I know I have, but I wouldn't have been able to recall them if it were not for the drugs. I'd be surprised if anyone were able to recall them without the use of drugs bringing those memories back into perspective?
Holy cow, holy cow, this stuff is actually real!
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28439209 - 08/19/23 11:52 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Yes, sober meditative practice, etc. does it too.
|
solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28439213 - 08/19/23 11:57 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
syncro said: Yes, sober meditative practice, etc. does it too.
Like what? What can possibly induce such intense visions through "sober meditative practice", asynchronous time, ego death, telepathy, and the whole deal?
Have you been able to "get there" through sober meditative practice? What does that look like for you? How many years of practice before you can "get there" through sober meditative practice?
I keep thinking about what Lithop said, "I promise you'll give in before Reality does", because I keep having spiritual amnesia and thinking these stuff are fake, so I think Reality is going to give in before I do. Of course, those two are the same thing...
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Edited by solarshroomster (08/19/23 11:58 AM)
|
CreonAntigone
Stranger

Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28439236 - 08/19/23 12:16 PM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
solarshroomster said:
Quote:
syncro said: Yes, sober meditative practice, etc. does it too.
Like what? What can possibly induce such intense visions through "sober meditative practice", asynchronous time, ego death, telepathy, and the whole deal?
Have you been able to "get there" through sober meditative practice? What does that look like for you? How many years of practice before you can "get there" through sober meditative practice?
I keep thinking about what Lithop said, "I promise you'll give in before Reality does", because I keep having spiritual amnesia and thinking these stuff are fake, so I think Reality is going to give in before I do. Of course, those two are the same thing...
Isolation, deprivation, focus.
The desert fathers were a Christian sect known for asceticism. They would meditate for long hours on very little food. Eventually, such starvation can induce religious experiences like drugs.
One of the desert fathers was known to instruct people to 'become entirely like fire'. The message: carry the extreme edge, the intensity of feeling, into ones meditation; transform one's self entirely to be the universe.
None of this requires drugs. You will be stronger and better if you can learn to do it without drugs. If all drugs were gone forever, how would you meditate? Ask yourself this, and proceed accordingly.
|
connectedcosmos
Neti Neti



Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,426
Loc: The Pathless Path
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28439239 - 08/19/23 12:20 PM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
I am really starting to enjoy the non conceptual route - think maybe Satori or Kensho
An insight that makes so much sense and is comprehended yet the minute you begin to try and describe it the further and further you get away from what it actually is
I think of Dao or , Zen - the unspeakable world completely non conceptual
Reality is unspeakable because words are ideas and concepts (even the letters that make words up themselves are concepts and ideas) and reality is not a word or an idea or a concept it simply just is
I get glimpses of these states but they don't seem to last long , it is very fun for contemplative thought especially while I am at work , gives me goosebumps sometimes
--------------------
 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
|
CreonAntigone
Stranger

Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: connectedcosmos] 1
#28439244 - 08/19/23 12:21 PM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Abba Lot went to Abba Joseph and said to him, “Abba, as far as I can I say my little office, I fast a little, I pray and meditate, I live in peace and as far as I can, I purify my thoughts. What else can I do?” Then the old man stood up and stretched his hands towards heaven. His fingers became like ten lamps of fire and he said to him, “If you will, you can become all flame.”
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro] 1
#28439269 - 08/19/23 12:43 PM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
syncro said: Yes, sober meditative practice, etc. does it too.
While said experience - whether be it termed ordinary, spiritual, mystical, entheogenic, hallucinogenic, psychedelic, etc - can and do vary with respect to each psychoactive substance - the biochemical component is ubiquitous throughout all of experience.
Meaning, at least in some sense - that sobriety - in so far as we think of it in terms of some sort of state of being comprised of pure abstinence, is actually much closer to a myth or illusory convention than it is reality. Not that it can't at times be a useful.
No 'getting around / bypassing' that which is all encompassing - Nature is Nature - and by default, is always already unified from before even the very get go, so what's that mean for us in terms of the topic at hand, gnome saying?
Whether or not said experience(s) is or are evoked due to the acting in or upon the body of any particular exogenously (and) or endogenously produced substance...seems like yet another largely arbitrary and illusory point to point out - Substances are Substances.
If that line is being drawn in an attempt to render some form of ultimate distinction or absolute and final judgement it reaches beyond conveying a substance's unique molecular [structure:function] and or 'lifetime-locus' as is traceable throughout space-time while existing temporarily in their unique distinguishable (recognizable/familiar) form(s).
^ Themselves and 'Ourselves' still subject to the 3 marks of existence - not outside, above, or beyond the reach of flux, transformation, or change.
I think I might get where you're coming from though, partly b/c in an in-person dialogue I'll often tailor my responses in a way which isn't entirely true to how I might genuinely see things... so as to not upset another's understanding... so as to go not go through whatever troubles lay ahead in wait should I do otherwise. 
Similar to what was mentioned earlier by Creon Antigone.
Happened just yesterday.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (08/19/23 01:48 PM)
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28439350 - 08/19/23 01:58 PM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
solarshroomster said:
Quote:
syncro said: Yes, sober meditative practice, etc. does it too.
Like what? What can possibly induce such intense visions through "sober meditative practice", asynchronous time, ego death, telepathy, and the whole deal?
Have you been able to "get there" through sober meditative practice? What does that look like for you? How many years of practice before you can "get there" through sober meditative practice?
I keep thinking about what Lithop said, "I promise you'll give in before Reality does", because I keep having spiritual amnesia and thinking these stuff are fake, so I think Reality is going to give in before I do. Of course, those two are the same thing...
First, I am not judging or telling people to stop something and do something else. Their path is their own to travel and in their spirit to decide.
Essentially everything I've said on this board, and a great majority I've read on the shroomery and elsewhere, in my version of them, has happened to me in or due to meditative practice without external substance use.
One thing that has not happened to me in memory is that universal integration where it is sensed you become the whole thing, like Anattatman's description from some time ago, and also Asante describes as such, but I wouldn't trade anything in experience. I have experience with entities, but not as detailed or extensive as some of the experiences in the trip reports. Experience in itself as such may not be so important as that which is beyond, or that which encompasses them. The meditation anyway can tend to shut down the visionary after a time, though I anticipate that opening again in phase.
A tantric teacher I've referred to recently, Kufayev, formerly heavily into psychs as well, said meditation is more reliable in reproducibility. He was connected with Leary and them in the psych magnitudes.
I posted earlier about it.
Quote:
'Whenever I'm not on the drugs, I no longer "see". And, why, do I keep forgetting?'
This speaks to an advantage to add if possible a 'sober' way of meditation, or however we affirm, remember, or make peaceful. We could lose access to the substances. Faith is an asset as in any sincere effort or longing is reciprocated multifold. This is true cognitively in forming habituation, no doubt in proportion to sincerity. Where the mind goes it will make for you. Wasn't this your quote, SS, by Plotinus; "They will be what they see."? Though I may have altered the meaning a bit.
People say developing meditation takes a perhaps prohibitive level of dedication, time. In my experience, I can pretty easily give myself an altered state with sadhana and with a little work can take it beyond my comfort tolerance, meaning there is plenty.
I'd say it can be done with less effort than it would take to get a diploma. I believe Yogananda said one can become a good yogi in six months. With the ripeness which seem to abound around here, likely much sooner. Observing the breathing changes the state immediately. And not that I don't have obstacles big time.
Edited by syncro (08/19/23 02:06 PM)
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28439993 - 08/19/23 10:39 PM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
This one should be acknowledged too Solar. "Basically, in short, I feel like I've been to the edge of the universe and back. I saw it formed, saw it deform, and saw it recreate itself again as I returned?"
That integration referred to perhaps there but before, seems more as spacial recognition of the physical cosmos and beyond. Masters have commented seeing the vastness of the physical within far greater subtle universes, as well some say an infinitude of universes.
But wholeness, as it were, ime, can use any or needs no spacial dimension. Perhaps as in sleep,
Comments were struck about dream world phenomena. Not a thing.
 Hey, that's not bad. Now that thing will attack in the in between. Can't unsee him. He looks like he just wants a snack. He may be vegetarian. I have some good flied lice. Dude, I stole some bagels from my kid. I'm cat sitting, driving across town! Oh man, I still have to go tonight.
|
Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,793
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28440088 - 08/20/23 03:22 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
solarshroomster said: Impossible to really describe, but I just get the sense that the universe makes sense on entheogens.
Hard to explain, but it feels like everything is reconciled allegorically.
I don't know how I so missed "this".
moreover: the Universe makes sensible entheogens.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
|
solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro] 1
#28440292 - 08/20/23 08:39 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
syncro said: This one should be acknowledged too Solar. "Basically, in short, I feel like I've been to the edge of the universe and back. I saw it formed, saw it deform, and saw it recreate itself again as I returned?"
That integration referred to perhaps there but before, seems more as spacial recognition of the physical cosmos and beyond. Masters have commented seeing the vastness of the physical within far greater subtle universes, as well some say an infinitude of universes.
But wholeness, as it were, ime, can use any or needs no spacial dimension. Perhaps as in sleep,
Excellent point of clarification. It was lazy writing on my part, and I was being metaphorical. When I wrote that, I was well aware it was poor wording, which is why I prefaced it by saying "I feel like I need to make up things to even describe it... you sort of just need to be there to appreciate it." The point was basically to just say "I perceived a lot of information about Reality during this experience", lol. The literal description is a lie: I didn't experience what I'm literally reporting I experienced.
Humans perceive life events structured in spacetime, but the mystical seems to extend beyond space & time. Of course, Reality has a metaphysical essence that is one with the material space-time aspect.
So, when I went "to the EDGE of the universe and back", that makes no sense... there is no "edge" to Reality, since there is nothing beyond Reality. Reality is all that exists, and the unreal cannot be distinguished from it. As a result, space & time is all internally relative; you are always, in a sense, at the "center" of the universe no matter how much you travel "in here" (note: not "out there"). As I've said before, this is why the Big Bang represents the very expansion of spacetime itself and is not an event "within" spacetime. Everything is all internally relative and interconnected.
Anyhow, back to my writing and experience it came from - yeah, I wasn't perceiving it spatially. I merely wrote about it in a spatial sense, because that's all the vocabulary I have to analogize it. The Divine is ineffable and can't be described, in my view -- you can only appreciate it through direct experience, for it transcends the surface appearance of everything, including words.
In other words, don't take my writing too literally. All of it is just dead ink on a page (or, in this case, dead pixels on a screen) waiting for a conscious mind to make it come "alive". The "aliveness" is Reality itself: you, me, everything alive and creating space & time through our imagination.
I'm hoping what I wrote made sense...
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28440374 - 08/20/23 09:44 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
|
|
I didn't mean it as a criticism, but was putting it in the ranks with at least somewhat having that expansive experience along with those previously mentioned. I was kind of defending my non-substance use experience even though I haven't had that kind of expansion. Maybe some ego play, but meaning to share. 
I am a lot about the spatial internally. After I say something like wholeness needs no spatial dimension, it slips away. I don't know how it can be said. First of all space is wonderful, but then we tend to want to 'dismiss' as a concept, which is also true. But I don't think there can be perception without space. When there is an immersion, there is no longer concept of spacetime as it was. Yet the profound is in a kind of space.
Edited by syncro (08/20/23 10:32 AM)
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28440391 - 08/20/23 09:53 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
|
|
There is the concept of all mind being connected, and following that, how can I adjust to feel I am part of it and contributing? So I affirm, for example, there is only one thing, there is only one consciousness. And then it can show there, the all, a blissful void, around the size of a body at times, bordered only by oblivion, and my offering is wholly in it. And furthermore, when it integrates... where are words? Holy Mama
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28440486 - 08/20/23 11:01 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
|
|
Good post btw.
I had something about the quote I posted where the teacher is repetitively driving the root understanding of our immutability, or that we can't be touched, no fear. We hear this all the time from many sources over and over, and we should. Loop it.
There is mentioned a lot about the cycles, where we are up then down. The inspiration passes us by. The nectar we attain, and there is at some point the drop.
Now at some point it must sink in to this thick skull, something must reach the applicable. I think of the Shankara verse to the effect of, words of liberation should be heard again and again.
So there came an awareness in that time where things begin to drop. It may manifest as pain in the body, if subtle. Emotions, thoughts, body returns to the lame as it were.
But as soon as one notices the beginnings of the drop, to be firmly in that root understanding so emphasized, that we are untouchable. We can't be dropped. Whatever words are good.
It did show as serving to suspend the fall. Will it be another one of those things passing by? We'll see. When something has good effect and hits deeply, there may be less of a tendency for it to fall to the wayside.
It brings up another point made, and this is applied in self-improvement matters aside from spirituality - whenever there is success like that, connect it deeply with emotion. It is the glue. It was said also, though I am not familiar with the terminology, I believe it correlated the fourth dimension, emotion, the glue which can help maintain and grow the connection of the third dimension with the fifth.
Edited by syncro (08/20/23 11:03 AM)
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes, 6 seconds
|
Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28440509 - 08/20/23 11:16 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
|
|
A point further is in the sincerity of drive to be in that root of understanding, it is fed. Call it grace, who knows. The universe loves that stuff.
|
|