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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: Buster_Brown]
#28439051 - 08/19/23 09:24 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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"Buster_Brown said: "All of it is erotic, in an inclusive sense"
And how we may underplay the role of friction in eroticism."
I'm chafing.
"The wholeness of eros:
A higher love with a brain massage."
I'll take it!
The words fall in line with everything else. The difference is in making gaps in consciousness.
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28439054 - 08/19/23 09:26 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Frog Pond Plop!
This makes so much sense now. Thank you..!!
Here's a good explanation of it, I've found helpful:
https://www.davidkellypoetry.com/frog-pond-plop.html
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28439078 - 08/19/23 09:49 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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In "Hey Jude" the protagonist is advised to 'let it under his skin' in order to begin making a sad song better.
A trick maybe to let nothing under your skin except the need to be a channel for higher purposes.
Edited by Buster_Brown (08/19/23 09:50 AM)
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28439082 - 08/19/23 09:51 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Typestracts.
I like the idea of bolding the three Os in frOg pOnd plOp representing the circle of Zen type.
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CreonAntigone
Stranger

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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: Buster_Brown] 1
#28439084 - 08/19/23 09:53 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Here's the issue. I've felt this way, especially on mescaline. And for me, it lasted about one week. Not enough time.
If I used less drugs on a regular basis, I'd be able to stretch that feeling of unity far longer - I'd be able to reflect on the experience and bring it into everyday life for longer.
So moderation in the use of these drugs is key to absorbing any of these insights, lest they pass you by, replaced by nonsense.
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: Buster_Brown]
#28439085 - 08/19/23 09:55 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: In "Hey Jude" the protagonist is advised to 'let it under his skin' in order to begin making a sad song better.
A trick maybe to let nothing under your skin except the need to be a channel for higher purposes.
More viable may be herding cats. But they can do their thing. I'm cat sitting for a time.
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: CreonAntigone]
#28439087 - 08/19/23 09:56 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
CreonAntigone said: Here's the issue. I've felt this way, especially on mescaline. And for me, it lasted about one week. Not enough time.
If I used less drugs on a regular basis, I'd be able to stretch that feeling of unity far longer - I'd be able to reflect on the experience and bring it into everyday life for longer.
So moderation in the use of these drugs is key to absorbing any of these insights, lest they pass you by, replaced by nonsense.
I don't understand why I'm now just expected to be getting these insights and act as if it was no big deal. Time and time again, people keep telling me you shouldn't be going on and on about how you are so surprised, but I'm indeed very surprised, because none of this fit into my worldview previously, and I doubt it would have ever come to light without my use of entheogens.
I would not have known any of this had it not been for my use of entheogens. They forced me to "see".
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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syncro
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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28439094 - 08/19/23 10:05 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Surprise is the same as the awe and wonder, appreciation. Of course you should be. Those experiences are defined by the exhilarant, if not also very calm nevertheless.
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28439103 - 08/19/23 10:12 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Your surprise is a teacher here, imo. You're telling everyone to wake up. !
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syncro
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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: CreonAntigone] 1
#28439106 - 08/19/23 10:16 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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"lest they pass you by"
They always seem to pass by. So the knowing we all are reaching for is intuitive, beyond words. We forgot the concept, but a knowing is there asking for attention.
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CreonAntigone
Stranger

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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster] 2
#28439110 - 08/19/23 10:20 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
solarshroomster said:
Quote:
CreonAntigone said: Here's the issue. I've felt this way, especially on mescaline. And for me, it lasted about one week. Not enough time.
If I used less drugs on a regular basis, I'd be able to stretch that feeling of unity far longer - I'd be able to reflect on the experience and bring it into everyday life for longer.
So moderation in the use of these drugs is key to absorbing any of these insights, lest they pass you by, replaced by nonsense.
I don't understand why I'm now just expected to be getting these insights and act as if it was no big deal. Time and time again, people keep telling me you shouldn't be going on and on about how you are so surprised, but I'm indeed very surprised, because none of this fit into my worldview previously, and I doubt it would have ever come to light without my use of entheogens.
I would not have known any of this had it not been for my use of entheogens. They forced me to "see".
My suggestion is, if you phrase your same experience as a 'spiritual experience' and don't mention the drugs, people will understand a bit better. They stigmatize drugs, yet they have the same kind of experiences in their own religious views.
People don't tolerate drugs yet. You can think it of it like a persecuted religion if you wish (though it's not exactly right).
Keep in mind ancient people actually intentionally hid the drugs they used... they'd talk about the benefits of their religious mysteries, but they didn't talk about how it was an enthogenic potion that brought it about. In fact, that part of it was strictly regulated as a state secret, and one could be exiled for talking about it, even though everyone knew it.
In a sense I can see it as a courtesy to others. They didn't have the same drug experience. So to speak on their level, drug experiences must be converted to regular language.
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: CreonAntigone]
#28439180 - 08/19/23 11:28 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
CreonAntigone said: My suggestion is, if you phrase your same experience as a 'spiritual experience' and don't mention the drugs, people will understand a bit better. They stigmatize drugs, yet they have the same kind of experiences in their own religious views.
People don't tolerate drugs yet. You can think it of it like a persecuted religion if you wish (though it's not exactly right).
Keep in mind ancient people actually intentionally hid the drugs they used... they'd talk about the benefits of their religious mysteries, but they didn't talk about how it was an enthogenic potion that brought it about. In fact, that part of it was strictly regulated as a state secret, and one could be exiled for talking about it, even though everyone knew it.
In a sense I can see it as a courtesy to others. They didn't have the same drug experience. So to speak on their level, drug experiences must be converted to regular language.
Another genius post. Yes, I agree, to talk about mystical experiences in more general terms, as opposed to "entheogenic experiences". However, a question I have is... are people really having mystical experiences outside of drugs? I know I have, but I wouldn't have been able to recall them if it were not for the drugs. I'd be surprised if anyone were able to recall them without the use of drugs bringing those memories back into perspective?
Holy cow, holy cow, this stuff is actually real!
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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syncro
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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster]
#28439209 - 08/19/23 11:52 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Yes, sober meditative practice, etc. does it too.
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28439213 - 08/19/23 11:57 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said: Yes, sober meditative practice, etc. does it too.
Like what? What can possibly induce such intense visions through "sober meditative practice", asynchronous time, ego death, telepathy, and the whole deal?
Have you been able to "get there" through sober meditative practice? What does that look like for you? How many years of practice before you can "get there" through sober meditative practice?
I keep thinking about what Lithop said, "I promise you'll give in before Reality does", because I keep having spiritual amnesia and thinking these stuff are fake, so I think Reality is going to give in before I do. Of course, those two are the same thing...
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Edited by solarshroomster (08/19/23 11:58 AM)
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CreonAntigone
Stranger

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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28439236 - 08/19/23 12:16 PM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
solarshroomster said:
Quote:
syncro said: Yes, sober meditative practice, etc. does it too.
Like what? What can possibly induce such intense visions through "sober meditative practice", asynchronous time, ego death, telepathy, and the whole deal?
Have you been able to "get there" through sober meditative practice? What does that look like for you? How many years of practice before you can "get there" through sober meditative practice?
I keep thinking about what Lithop said, "I promise you'll give in before Reality does", because I keep having spiritual amnesia and thinking these stuff are fake, so I think Reality is going to give in before I do. Of course, those two are the same thing...
Isolation, deprivation, focus.
The desert fathers were a Christian sect known for asceticism. They would meditate for long hours on very little food. Eventually, such starvation can induce religious experiences like drugs.
One of the desert fathers was known to instruct people to 'become entirely like fire'. The message: carry the extreme edge, the intensity of feeling, into ones meditation; transform one's self entirely to be the universe.
None of this requires drugs. You will be stronger and better if you can learn to do it without drugs. If all drugs were gone forever, how would you meditate? Ask yourself this, and proceed accordingly.
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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti



Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,426
Loc: The Pathless Path
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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28439239 - 08/19/23 12:20 PM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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I am really starting to enjoy the non conceptual route - think maybe Satori or Kensho
An insight that makes so much sense and is comprehended yet the minute you begin to try and describe it the further and further you get away from what it actually is
I think of Dao or , Zen - the unspeakable world completely non conceptual
Reality is unspeakable because words are ideas and concepts (even the letters that make words up themselves are concepts and ideas) and reality is not a word or an idea or a concept it simply just is
I get glimpses of these states but they don't seem to last long , it is very fun for contemplative thought especially while I am at work , gives me goosebumps sometimes
--------------------
 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
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CreonAntigone
Stranger

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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: connectedcosmos] 1
#28439244 - 08/19/23 12:21 PM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Abba Lot went to Abba Joseph and said to him, “Abba, as far as I can I say my little office, I fast a little, I pray and meditate, I live in peace and as far as I can, I purify my thoughts. What else can I do?” Then the old man stood up and stretched his hands towards heaven. His fingers became like ten lamps of fire and he said to him, “If you will, you can become all flame.”
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi


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Posts: 26,657
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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro] 1
#28439269 - 08/19/23 12:43 PM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said: Yes, sober meditative practice, etc. does it too.
While said experience - whether be it termed ordinary, spiritual, mystical, entheogenic, hallucinogenic, psychedelic, etc - can and do vary with respect to each psychoactive substance - the biochemical component is ubiquitous throughout all of experience.
Meaning, at least in some sense - that sobriety - in so far as we think of it in terms of some sort of state of being comprised of pure abstinence, is actually much closer to a myth or illusory convention than it is reality. Not that it can't at times be a useful.
No 'getting around / bypassing' that which is all encompassing - Nature is Nature - and by default, is always already unified from before even the very get go, so what's that mean for us in terms of the topic at hand, gnome saying?
Whether or not said experience(s) is or are evoked due to the acting in or upon the body of any particular exogenously (and) or endogenously produced substance...seems like yet another largely arbitrary and illusory point to point out - Substances are Substances.
If that line is being drawn in an attempt to render some form of ultimate distinction or absolute and final judgement it reaches beyond conveying a substance's unique molecular [structure:function] and or 'lifetime-locus' as is traceable throughout space-time while existing temporarily in their unique distinguishable (recognizable/familiar) form(s).
^ Themselves and 'Ourselves' still subject to the 3 marks of existence - not outside, above, or beyond the reach of flux, transformation, or change.
I think I might get where you're coming from though, partly b/c in an in-person dialogue I'll often tailor my responses in a way which isn't entirely true to how I might genuinely see things... so as to not upset another's understanding... so as to go not go through whatever troubles lay ahead in wait should I do otherwise. 
Similar to what was mentioned earlier by Creon Antigone.
Happened just yesterday.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (08/19/23 01:48 PM)
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syncro
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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28439350 - 08/19/23 01:58 PM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
solarshroomster said:
Quote:
syncro said: Yes, sober meditative practice, etc. does it too.
Like what? What can possibly induce such intense visions through "sober meditative practice", asynchronous time, ego death, telepathy, and the whole deal?
Have you been able to "get there" through sober meditative practice? What does that look like for you? How many years of practice before you can "get there" through sober meditative practice?
I keep thinking about what Lithop said, "I promise you'll give in before Reality does", because I keep having spiritual amnesia and thinking these stuff are fake, so I think Reality is going to give in before I do. Of course, those two are the same thing...
First, I am not judging or telling people to stop something and do something else. Their path is their own to travel and in their spirit to decide.
Essentially everything I've said on this board, and a great majority I've read on the shroomery and elsewhere, in my version of them, has happened to me in or due to meditative practice without external substance use.
One thing that has not happened to me in memory is that universal integration where it is sensed you become the whole thing, like Anattatman's description from some time ago, and also Asante describes as such, but I wouldn't trade anything in experience. I have experience with entities, but not as detailed or extensive as some of the experiences in the trip reports. Experience in itself as such may not be so important as that which is beyond, or that which encompasses them. The meditation anyway can tend to shut down the visionary after a time, though I anticipate that opening again in phase.
A tantric teacher I've referred to recently, Kufayev, formerly heavily into psychs as well, said meditation is more reliable in reproducibility. He was connected with Leary and them in the psych magnitudes.
I posted earlier about it.
Quote:
'Whenever I'm not on the drugs, I no longer "see". And, why, do I keep forgetting?'
This speaks to an advantage to add if possible a 'sober' way of meditation, or however we affirm, remember, or make peaceful. We could lose access to the substances. Faith is an asset as in any sincere effort or longing is reciprocated multifold. This is true cognitively in forming habituation, no doubt in proportion to sincerity. Where the mind goes it will make for you. Wasn't this your quote, SS, by Plotinus; "They will be what they see."? Though I may have altered the meaning a bit.
People say developing meditation takes a perhaps prohibitive level of dedication, time. In my experience, I can pretty easily give myself an altered state with sadhana and with a little work can take it beyond my comfort tolerance, meaning there is plenty.
I'd say it can be done with less effort than it would take to get a diploma. I believe Yogananda said one can become a good yogi in six months. With the ripeness which seem to abound around here, likely much sooner. Observing the breathing changes the state immediately. And not that I don't have obstacles big time.
Edited by syncro (08/19/23 02:06 PM)
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syncro
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Re: I just feel like the universe makes sense on entheogens [Re: syncro]
#28439993 - 08/19/23 10:39 PM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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This one should be acknowledged too Solar. "Basically, in short, I feel like I've been to the edge of the universe and back. I saw it formed, saw it deform, and saw it recreate itself again as I returned?"
That integration referred to perhaps there but before, seems more as spacial recognition of the physical cosmos and beyond. Masters have commented seeing the vastness of the physical within far greater subtle universes, as well some say an infinitude of universes.
But wholeness, as it were, ime, can use any or needs no spacial dimension. Perhaps as in sleep,
Comments were struck about dream world phenomena. Not a thing.
 Hey, that's not bad. Now that thing will attack in the in between. Can't unsee him. He looks like he just wants a snack. He may be vegetarian. I have some good flied lice. Dude, I stole some bagels from my kid. I'm cat sitting, driving across town! Oh man, I still have to go tonight.
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