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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb]
    #28441590 - 08/21/23 10:52 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Well, the SCOTUS disagreed with you.  I'm gonna go with the real judges on this one.


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
    #28441591 - 08/21/23 10:54 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

First let me say in my arguments, I am no scholar or history buff and just go by perception earned though living and thinking with out making it a passion of digging.

The bill of rights were argued against and ended up being a compromise to get buy in of enough votes to pass the constitution.  The intended meaning could be as I say with the legal meaning ending up as you say through the testing of what they had done.  We are a gov of checks and balance including states views of the constitution and the willingness to test those through the legal process.  That they had to test it and get that ruling shows the question we are on.  After the ruling, the 14th shows the adjustment to the side that took my position in the first place.


Edited by gww (08/21/23 11:09 AM)


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
    #28441594 - 08/21/23 10:57 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

.
Quote:

Enlil said:
Well, the SCOTUS disagreed with you.  I'm gonna go with the real judges on this one.





The Court held that prior restraint on publication (censoring newspapers in advance) in Minnesota was “the essence of censorship” and the heart of what the First Amendment was designed to prevent.

prior intent is what the scotus ruled in 1931... its you they dont agree with.


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: gww]
    #28441597 - 08/21/23 10:58 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
First let me say in my arguments, I am no scholar or history buff and just go by perception earned though living and thinking with out making it a passion of digging.

The bill of rights were argued against and ended up being a compromise to get buy in of enough votes to pass the constitution.  The intended meaning could be as I say with the legal meaning ending up as you say through the testing of what they had done.  We are a gov of checks and balance including states views of the constitution and the willingness to test those through the legal process.  That they had to test it and get that ruling shows the question we are on.  After the ruling, the 14th shows the adjustment to the side that took the position in the first place.




you, me and the 1931 supreme court all agree that was the original intent.

enlil is wrong.


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[quote]Enlil said:
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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: gww]
    #28441600 - 08/21/23 11:01 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

If you look at the purpose of the Constitution, your interpretation doesn't make sense.  The Constitution was about bringing together 13 sovereigns into one government.  They wanted the unity but didn't want a federal government that was going to change their ways of life.  In fact, many of the colonies had official religions, which would have been illegal had the first amendment applied to those colonies. The idea was that none of the colonies wanted the federal government intruding. 

For example, read the first amendment.  It starts with "Congress shall make no law..."  If it applied to the state legislatures, why did it specify Congress?


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
    #28441601 - 08/21/23 11:03 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
If you look at the purpose of the Constitution, your interpretation doesn't make sense.  The Constitution was about bringing together 13 sovereigns into one government.  They wanted the unity but didn't want a federal government that was going to change their ways of life.  In fact, many of the colonies had official religions, which would have been illegal had the first amendment applied to those colonies. The idea was that none of the colonies wanted the federal government intruding. 

For example, read the first amendment.  It starts with "Congress shall make no law..."  If it applied to the state legislatures, why did it specify Congress?




youll have to take that up with the scotus.

no one seems to agree with you.


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[quote]Enlil said:
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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb]
    #28441605 - 08/21/23 11:06 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

gww said:
First let me say in my arguments, I am no scholar or history buff and just go by perception earned though living and thinking with out making it a passion of digging.

The bill of rights were argued against and ended up being a compromise to get buy in of enough votes to pass the constitution.  The intended meaning could be as I say with the legal meaning ending up as you say through the testing of what they had done.  We are a gov of checks and balance including states views of the constitution and the willingness to test those through the legal process.  That they had to test it and get that ruling shows the question we are on.  After the ruling, the 14th shows the adjustment to the side that took the position in the first place.




you, me and the 1931 supreme court all agree that was the original intent.

enlil is wrong.



Have you even read that case?  It's based on the 14th amendment which didn't even exist until 1868.


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
    #28441607 - 08/21/23 11:07 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

gww said:
First let me say in my arguments, I am no scholar or history buff and just go by perception earned though living and thinking with out making it a passion of digging.

The bill of rights were argued against and ended up being a compromise to get buy in of enough votes to pass the constitution.  The intended meaning could be as I say with the legal meaning ending up as you say through the testing of what they had done.  We are a gov of checks and balance including states views of the constitution and the willingness to test those through the legal process.  That they had to test it and get that ruling shows the question we are on.  After the ruling, the 14th shows the adjustment to the side that took the position in the first place.




you, me and the 1931 supreme court all agree that was the original intent.

enlil is wrong.



Have you even read that case?  It's based on the 14th amendment which didn't even exist until 1868.




i quoted above where scotus ruled in favor of neem because of intent of the first amendment.


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[quote]Enlil said:
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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb]
    #28441608 - 08/21/23 11:11 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

I don't see anything close to a quote saying that.


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb]
    #28441609 - 08/21/23 11:11 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:


The Court held that prior restraint on publication (censoring newspapers in advance) in Minnesota was “the essence of censorship” and the heart of what the First Amendment was designed to prevent. Even in cases where printed statements could be punished after the fact (libelous statements, for example), neither federal nor state governments could stop the publication of materials in advance.




not the 14th, but the first... and not starting at 1931 but the court HELD that this was the first amendment was D E S I G N E D to prevent.


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb]
    #28441612 - 08/21/23 11:14 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

That quote isn't from the case.  You made that up or quoted someone else who did make it up.  Those are not the words of the SCOTUS.  These are the words of the SCOTUS:

Quote:

For these reasons we hold the statute, so far as it authorized the proceedings in this action under clause (b) of section one, to be an infringement of the liberty of the press guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment





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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
    #28441616 - 08/21/23 11:18 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
If you look at the purpose of the Constitution, your interpretation doesn't make sense.  The Constitution was about bringing together 13 sovereigns into one government.  They wanted the unity but didn't want a federal government that was going to change their ways of life.  In fact, many of the colonies had official religions, which would have been illegal had the first amendment applied to those colonies. The idea was that none of the colonies wanted the federal government intruding. 

For example, read the first amendment.  It starts with "Congress shall make no law..."  If it applied to the state legislatures, why did it specify Congress?




The constitution, If I have it right, was to replace the articles confederation which did as you say.  The reason was to make a stronger federal gov over the states to stop turf wars between them and have a central army and trade.


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: gww]
    #28441618 - 08/21/23 11:20 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Certainly stronger than the Articles of Confederation.  Not so strong, however, that the colonies lost their sovereignty entirely.  That's why Congress is given so limited power in the Constitution. 

Do you have any explanation why the first amendment only specifically mentions Congress' ability to make laws?


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: christopera]
    #28441621 - 08/21/23 11:24 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
I agree. I don't ever see us making significant progress on our fundamental laws at the federal level again. Instead you will have to move to a state with the laws that best suit you. Not a great option for poor people who will likely end up in the poorest states. I.E., our current reality.





I agree, and its a shame...say what you will about the framers/ founders, the Constitution was specifically designed to be an evolutionary document. The Amendment process was put in there for that reason, as they knew times change. I blame us, the voters for not voting in people that can form a concensus.

It can have its pitfalls, like the 18th Amendment but a correction with the 21st.


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Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (08/21/23 11:26 AM)


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28441624 - 08/21/23 11:28 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Unfortunately, more votes are gained by pointing out how different one is from the other guy than pointing out the places where they agree.  This inevitably leads to people taking positions just so they can differentiate themselves.  Over time, this is where it leads.  Half the nation thinks the other half are idiots for believing what they believe.


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
    #28441626 - 08/21/23 11:30 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Writing for the Court, Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes started by confirming what the Court had decided six years earlier. The First Amendment freedom of the press is one of the liberties, or freedoms, protected by the Fourteenth Amendment from state interference. This means that all states, including Minnesota, must obey the freedom of the press.


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[quote]Enlil said:
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb]
    #28441629 - 08/21/23 11:36 AM (5 months, 4 days ago)

all the writings on the case (i cant find the opinion letter for whatever reason) point to the majority claiming that the point of the first amendment was to keep things like this from happening, and while the decision was made BY WAY of the 14th amendment it seemed to be the opinion of the court that was the founders intent.


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
    #28441649 - 08/21/23 12:00 PM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Do you have any explanation why the first amendment only specifically mentions Congress' ability to make laws?



Point for you.  My contention is privacy was the foundation for the bill of rights of the federal gov.  I will add this though.  Most states at the time had constitutions prior to the federal gov getting one and most contained bill of rights.  It was the thinking at the time and whatever meaning comes with that.  Secondly, it is a mute point after the 14th amendment and if my contention is that privacy was the foundation of the bill of right were correct for the federal then it is now for the states.  I always fall back on the right to self defense is not specifically spelled out in the constitution but is implicitly guaranteed by it just like privacy.  You get the point that prior to the 14th, the states were not bound by the bill of rights in the us constitution.


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb]
    #28441650 - 08/21/23 12:02 PM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

14th amendment it seemed to be the opinion of the court that was the founders intent.



It was at least for sure ben franklins intent.:smile:


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: gww]
    #28441658 - 08/21/23 12:07 PM (5 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
Quote:

14th amendment it seemed to be the opinion of the court that was the founders intent.



It was at least for sure ben franklins intent.:smile:




dont tell enlil it will shatter his world views


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