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Enlil
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Registered: 08/16/03
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: millzy]
#28439990 - 08/19/23 10:37 PM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
millzy said: the dobbs ruling is a recent example of the court acting in the interest of christian white nationalist groups.
but it doesn't stop there. there has been a huge, ongoing project to install theocrats since the civil rights and antiwar movements of the 60's and 70's.
It seems like you're suggesting that Congress could target specific areas that the SCOTUS can't review. First, that has never been demonstrated. It is a very risky proposition, too. Example:
Congress passes a bill stating that SCOTUS can't review cases regarding the First Amendment. Then Congress passes a federal law making it illegal for U.S. Citizens to speak negatively about any government official.
Now, that law is unconstitutional, but who cares? SCOTUS can't review it...Congress could even dissolve the circuit courts if it wanted and completely immunize the law from any constitutional scrutiny..
Does Congress have the power to do that? I don't think it does. I think any law limiting SCOTUS' ability to review federal law would be stricken down as unconstitutional violation of the separation of powers. It's never been tried, of course...so we can't know for sure.
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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: SirTripAlot]
#28439998 - 08/19/23 10:45 PM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: The Dobbs ruling was not based on white Christian nationalism, it was a result of the Legislature doing nothing and a shaky legal foundation of Roe v Wade.
while i agree that congress should have enacted laws to protect abortion access at the federal level, the dobbs decision was the outcome of christian white nationalist groups getting their people on the courts. justice barrett straight up lied about her views on abortion in front of congress. she was put there to strike it down.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
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Enlil
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: millzy]
#28440001 - 08/19/23 10:46 PM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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I'm not even convinced that Congress has the power to protect abortion access other than on federal lands.
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millzy


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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
#28440004 - 08/19/23 10:54 PM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
millzy said: the dobbs ruling is a recent example of the court acting in the interest of christian white nationalist groups.
but it doesn't stop there. there has been a huge, ongoing project to install theocrats since the civil rights and antiwar movements of the 60's and 70's.
It seems like you're suggesting that Congress could target specific areas that the SCOTUS can't review. First, that has never been demonstrated. It is a very risky proposition, too. Example:
Congress passes a bill stating that SCOTUS can't review cases regarding the First Amendment. Then Congress passes a federal law making it illegal for U.S. Citizens to speak negatively about any government official.
Now, that law is unconstitutional, but who cares? SCOTUS can't review it...Congress could even dissolve the circuit courts if it wanted and completely immunize the law from any constitutional scrutiny..
Does Congress have the power to do that? I don't think it does. I think any law limiting SCOTUS' ability to review federal law would be stricken down as unconstitutional violation of the separation of powers. It's never been tried, of course...so we can't know for sure.
it would definitely be uncharted territory. if congress tried to reign in the court, the court would almost certainly not accept laws that restricted their power. but if congress has no check against the court, who does? even the concept of judicial review came from the court via marbury v madison.
i believe the potential for such a crisis is part of the plan for the groups behind these regressive decisions. at the end of the day, nothing changes for any member of congress regardless of what the law says. their access to abortion will remain unchanged. so they have zero motive to go after the court, and good reasons not to because it'll start a big fight.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
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rxb
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: millzy]
#28440350 - 08/20/23 09:25 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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millzy said: i've been here awhile. i always thought enlil was an attorney. i guess i was mistaken about that.
he says he is a lawyer and he says he is a god. if you choose to believe one you may as well believe the other but he is often wrong about simple legal concepts and when you do things like post videos of confirmed lawyers saying the opposite of what he does he either shuts up about it or deflects.. reciently he said a judge's legal opinion wasnt as good as his...etc.
some people are just this way... he isnt hurting anything but theres no good reason to believe he is a lawyer. many people including myself think he is not.
Quote:
millzy said: the argument i've heard is that the constitution empowers congress to pass laws that impose ethical standards and set rules for the kinds of cases they can preside over. they can overturn judicial review if they want. i don't recall the details beyond that. but the jist is that congress can and should act to reign in our corrupt SCOTUS before it's too late.
the legislative branch can enact laws. the supreme court can find them unconstitutional the president can veto them.
the president can issue a decree called an executive order, the legislature can overturn it and the supremecourt can rule it unlawful or unconstitutional.
the supreme court cant really create laws out of thin air, but can make judicial orders however for the most part they have no means to create laws. they do create policy for the courts and themselves.
the president could give an executive order governing the court and the legislature could enact rules or laws that effect the court but their only true power to stop the courts action would be through impeachment or the threat of it which requires a legislator far less divided than what we have.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
Edited by rxb (08/20/23 09:37 AM)
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rxb
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
#28440361 - 08/20/23 09:33 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I'm not even convinced that Congress has the power to protect abortion access other than on federal lands.
by this, we would have no federal laws or regulations what so ever,
no regulation of firearms, no regulation of drugs, no protections of rights.... nothing from the federal level by your assessment
which is why its unlikely a lawyer would make such a statement as they would have taken many hours of study on federal laws, rights, and restrictions and would understand how they each separately work and how one would go about using any of the three to protect abortion rights federally.
now to say there are plausible arguments for striking those powers down because they step on states rights is a plenty worthy debate especially with a corrupt court.
but certainly a legal scholar wouldnt be confused about how such a thing could BE done... since similar concepts exist since the founding of the nation.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Enlil
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb]
#28440371 - 08/20/23 09:40 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
rxb said:
Quote:
Enlil said: I'm not even convinced that Congress has the power to protect abortion access other than on federal lands.
by this, we would have no federal laws or regulations what so ever,
no regulation of firearms, no regulation of drugs, no protections of rights.... nothing from the federal level by your assessment
This is based on a clear lack of understanding of the powers of the federal government. Congress can't just pass any law they want and apply it to states. The Constitution specifically gives Congress power to regulate interstate commerce. That is why firearms and drugs are regulated federally. An abortion happens in a doctors office. Where's the interstate commerce?
Or perhaps you know of another clause that gives the federal government the power to regulate abortion? We already know that rape isn't a topic the federal government can regulate after U.S. v. Morrison. I don't see how abortion would be any different.
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rxb
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
#28440375 - 08/20/23 09:45 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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we have federal laws that regulate medical practices
we have federal laws that regulate pollution.
we have federal laws that ban some medical procedures.
we have laws that regulate chemicals and drugs and what can be sold as a drug.
we have laws about what doctors can not do.
we have laws about what they can.
you are selectively ignoring the three types of laws. regulation prohibition and rights.
any of the three can be used to allow for and regulate abortions in the us.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Enlil
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb]
#28440380 - 08/20/23 09:48 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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A bunch of claims without any examples or sources. Why am I not surprised?
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rxb
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
#28440384 - 08/20/23 09:50 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: A bunch of claims without any examples or sources. Why am I not surprised?
so you dont believe the federal drugs regulations exist? or you just mistook what type of conversation this is?
never heard of the epa? or... again just dont know what kind of conversation this is.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Enlil
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb]
#28440390 - 08/20/23 09:52 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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I already told you federal drug regulations exist under the interstate commerce clause. What does that have to do with abortion? What does the epa have to do with abortion?
Can you cite a single example of a federal ban (or prohibition of a ban) on a medical procedure done in a local office by a local doctor?
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rxb
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
#28440401 - 08/20/23 09:57 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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extremely selective of you.
and its avoiding 90 percent of what i said before.
seems like something a spineless coward would do.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Enlil
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Registered: 08/16/03
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb]
#28440409 - 08/20/23 10:01 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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So, you don't have an example? Got it. The federal government has limited power. They cannot just pass any law they want for the nation. It may very well be that they have the power to ban abortion, but I don't believe so. It might even be that they can ban a prohibition on abortion, but this is even less likely.
Now run off and find a lawyer who disagrees with me so you can claim that I'm wrong AND lying about being a lawyer. After all, if one lawyer says something, it MUST be true. Sidney Powell and Rudolph Giuliani are perfect examples.
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rxb
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
#28440421 - 08/20/23 10:13 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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all of the above have examples. there are examples of the congress expressing things as rights.
there are examples of congress restricting behavior
and there are examples of congress prohibiting behavior.
the fact that you dont know so is concerning.
they have not done so with abortion
as an example of what could be done with abortion is that congress could pass a law where certain medical procedures for the area used for other purposes couldnt be barred due to pregnancy or potential pregnancy or require pregnancy testing before performing them.
that would be an example of prohibition of the state from putting up road blocks to the abortion.
they could enact privacy laws which would restrict the state from being able to gather information to make a case that a doctor was performing abortions...tho this would be risky but there are ways it could work this would be regulation, or prohibition and would be similar to hippa.
then there is making an amendment which wouldnt work, but what may work is expressing that someone already enumerated rights apply to abortion and doing so as an act forcing the courts to see the will of the people and rule in the proper way.
however there is nothing restrictive here... there are DOZENS of ways to accomplish it. using one or more of the 3 potential strategies that the legislature has.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Enlil
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb]
#28440433 - 08/20/23 10:21 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
rxb said:
as an example of what could be done with abortion is that congress could pass a law where certain medical procedures for the area used for other purposes couldnt be barred due to pregnancy or potential pregnancy or require pregnancy testing before performing them.
Where in the Constitution does it give Congress this power?
Quote:
they could enact privacy laws which would restrict the state from being able to gather information to make a case that a doctor was performing abortions...tho this would be risky but there are ways it could work this would be regulation, or prohibition and would be similar to hippa.
Where in the Constitution does it give Congress this power?Quote:
then there is making an amendment which wouldnt work, but what may work is expressing that someone already enumerated rights apply to abortion and doing so as an act forcing the courts to see the will of the people and rule in the proper way.
An amendment is the only way, but Congress can't do that alone.
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rxb
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
#28440446 - 08/20/23 10:28 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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im not going to do this all day.
you are wrong when you say congress cant do it.
and because there is a legal argument against every congressional act there WILL be one against any that do this.
which wont mean it wont get enacted and wont mean that it doesnt pass.
and because its an uphill climb and has massive consequences you can bet that the thought put in will be by better lawyers than you or i would make.
these people will dot their eyes cross their t's and get it done.
and when they do you will be there telling them why they cant and your opinion wont change the facts.
but you are asking for a phd thesis and im having a conversation
if you have something substantive to add other than asking me to write an act of congress and not make any mistakes while im doing it, i'll casually chat with you.
but you are just being childish at this point and i have other things i'd rather do than build the case for what we both know is doable...
but when you can lasso the moon you can ask me to. until then just stay in your lane.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Enlil
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb] 1
#28440452 - 08/20/23 10:31 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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I'm wrong because you say so? Got it. Your opinion has been duly noted.
Keep in mind that this started by me posting:
Quote:
I'm not even convinced that Congress has the power to protect abortion access other than on federal lands.
After your lackluster performance here, I'm still unconvinced. I do hope you enjoyed your literary masturbation in the process, though.
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rxb
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
#28440468 - 08/20/23 10:41 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I'm wrong because you say so? Got it. Your opinion has been duly noted.
Keep in mind that this started by me posting:
Quote:
I'm not even convinced that Congress has the power to protect abortion access other than on federal lands.
After your lackluster performance here, I'm still unconvinced. I do hope you enjoyed your literary masturbation in the process, though.
well, congress has the power to protect abortion the same way it protects your privacy with hippa, the same way it protects your environment with the epa, there are other ways that congress could protect abortion but in the current political climate it would be a hard fought uphil climb... maybe after the next presidential election is a referendum on abortion rights change will be made with a mandate from the people.
neither of us will be involved in the process.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Enlil
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: rxb]
#28440473 - 08/20/23 10:48 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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In other words, it can't protect abortion at all. Hipaa doesn't prevent a state from getting medical information for criminal investigations. The EPA doesn't apply to anything that doesn't involve interstate pollution. Since an abortion is performed in a local office, there is no interstate issue.
You've still offered not a single example of a law where a specific procedure, performed in a local office, is either banned federally or federally protected from a state ban.
What Congress COULD do (but won't) is protect a person's right to travel interstate to get an abortion.
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rxb
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Re: looks like justice thomas had 3 other billionaire benefactors [Re: Enlil]
#28440478 - 08/20/23 10:53 AM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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and you havent offered any proof that it cant be accomplished either you are just droning on and on like an old man pretending to be a lawyer on the internet would do.
your opinion wont matter abortion will be legal in the US in the future.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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