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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
This is an honestly intuitive question.
    #28435635 - 08/16/23 01:26 AM (5 months, 10 days ago)

How do you individually define pervert from the definition?

Quote:

pervert

verb:
1. distort or corrupt the original course, meaning, or state of (something).

"he was charged with conspiring to pervert the course of justice"

Similar: distort warp corrupt subvert twist bend abuse divert deflect misapply misuse misrepresent misinterpret misconstrue falsify garble

2. lead (someone) away from what is considered natural or acceptable.

"Hector is a man who is simply perverted by his time"

Similar: corrupt lead astray deprave make degenerate debauch debase warp vitiate pollute poison contaminate demoralize

noun:
a person whose sexual behaviour is regarded as abnormal and unacceptable.

Similar: deviant degenerate debauchee




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly]
    #28435636 - 08/16/23 01:38 AM (5 months, 10 days ago)

Perversion could be defined as interference with the making of 'fond' memories.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #28435637 - 08/16/23 01:43 AM (5 months, 10 days ago)

The first attribute of the learning process is the learning of steps, and the steps on learning confluencing congruently.

Doing a step, and then getting use to doing it better. And adding new steps along the way.

The question here is, what is the learning process?

I would say what is natural and acceptable.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly]
    #28435640 - 08/16/23 01:52 AM (5 months, 10 days ago)

Yeah I accept that the generation of fond memories is natural and acceptable.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28435641 - 08/16/23 01:57 AM (5 months, 10 days ago)

Are you really going to wait for an invitation, or are you going to ask the question yourself? 'I ask myself'

You can like something without wanting it

What do you mean by 'interference with'?

I believe what is natural and acceptable can make happen with positive memories.

To avoid that pain and find some semblance of a silver lining.

Sometimes you don't have time to figure out their intentions and wait for an invitation to find some privacy to make out. You want to know if you should be invested or not, and if there is a mutual attraction..

Respecting consent and boundaries is key, among communicating intentions and being able to like something without at that moment wanting it or expecting it to present itself to you.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (08/16/23 02:12 AM)


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly]
    #28435651 - 08/16/23 02:19 AM (5 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:


What do you mean by 'interference with'?






Your choice of fond memories are as important as my own. Interfering with that sentiment could be a perversion of ideals.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28435657 - 08/16/23 02:50 AM (5 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Quote:

sudly said:


What do you mean by 'interference with'?






Your choice of fond memories are as important as my own. Interfering with that sentiment could be a perversion of ideals.




Not to me they aren't. To you they are, but not to me, my own are important to me as yours are to you. We have both experienced them ourselves.

I am not interfering with your sentiment, I am stating my own.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly]
    #28435702 - 08/16/23 06:01 AM (5 months, 10 days ago)

I interpret pervert as "walk away"


--------------------
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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly]
    #28435759 - 08/16/23 07:30 AM (5 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:

I am not interfering with your sentiment, I am stating my own.




We pass women at the mall and smell perfume. The premise is that they are 'adding to our fond memories'.

Woman's Lib might insist that body odor/appearance isn't cause for discrimination, but our preferences object and seek resolution of differences by some means, most of them evident to our onlookers.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28435804 - 08/16/23 08:11 AM (5 months, 10 days ago)

smell pollution


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28435852 - 08/16/23 08:41 AM (5 months, 10 days ago)

Having reduced Women's Lib to a public spectacle I can sit back and revel in my perversity.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly]
    #28436097 - 08/16/23 01:45 PM (5 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

pervert

verb:
1. distort or corrupt the original course, meaning, or state of (something).




We need more of this.  We need more perversion!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28436124 - 08/16/23 02:10 PM (5 months, 10 days ago)

I just finished typing about a mirror.


--------------------
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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28436139 - 08/16/23 02:20 PM (5 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I interpret pervert as "walk away"




Isn't being perverted okay in the right circumstances? When it's natural and acceptable to do so, even just like hey, I'd like to kiss you against a wall.



I mean once you've established or recognised there's some kind of mutual attraction.

The trouble being if that assumption is wrong, but that's why I think some light flirting is okay, and if the person isn't comfortable or doesn't want that kind of attention, in my experience they've been able to communicate it effectively, and I don't get upset if it isn't reciprocated or plans are changed. I still enjoy their company.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28436142 - 08/16/23 02:23 PM (5 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Quote:

sudly said:

I am not interfering with your sentiment, I am stating my own.




We pass women at the mall and smell perfume. The premise is that they are 'adding to our fond memories'.

Woman's Lib might insist that body odor/appearance isn't cause for discrimination, but our preferences object and seek resolution of differences by some means, most of them evident to our onlookers.




You sound like a creep but I wouldn't say perverted, not in any good form of the definition.

If what you do or think is natural and acceptable to the person you're sharing the experience with however, maybe that's a shared kink, but it doesn't sound like it is here.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly]
    #28436153 - 08/16/23 02:33 PM (5 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I interpret pervert as "walk away"




Isn't being perverted okay in the right circumstances? When it's natural and acceptable to do so, even just like hey, I'd like to kiss you against a wall.



I mean once you've established or recognised there's some kind of mutual attraction.

The trouble being if that assumption is wrong, but that's why I think some light flirting is okay, and if the person isn't comfortable or doesn't want that kind of attention, in my experience they've been able to communicate it effectively, and I don't get upset if it isn't reciprocated or plans are changed. I still enjoy their company.



let me clarify
the perverts I have walked away from had intentions I was not attracted to.
a few times I regretted not walking fast enough.
I am not sure if we mean the same thing.

mutual attraction is not perverse at all.


--------------------
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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28436158 - 08/16/23 02:37 PM (5 months, 10 days ago)

So then perversion within mutual attraction is what I mean.

Like what does perversion within mutual attraction mean to you? To me it means what is natural and acceptable.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly]
    #28436308 - 08/16/23 05:25 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

In the context of approach I would say a pervert is someone who's open is sexually overt in an exaggerated way, or one in which the second attempt is a sexual escalation when the first was rejected.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28436475 - 08/16/23 08:21 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Something thats out of the proper flow of things.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly]
    #28436619 - 08/16/23 11:13 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

I like your second definition


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleTropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28436625 - 08/16/23 11:25 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Perversion directly applies against those who are willing participants.

If it's consensual it it isn't perverted.

Full stop.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Tropism]
    #28436645 - 08/17/23 12:06 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

If you decide when the time comes, when is it time?

Maybe when you feel ready to face the alternative outcome to what you currently perceive as successful.

Sometimes I'm just doing things with myself, for myself.. quite often actually, it's why I value my independence. I solo explore the wilderness quite often and I'm rather qualified to be able to do so safely and with great awareness of the Ecology of the area.

I am also physically fit, experienced, and passionate about the environmental work and hobbies I do.

I am also dating 5 people through ENM communities with good communication and mutual attraction. Open, honest conversation.

It's been liberating to a degree. And I have gone through the experience of deprivation of liberty, both mentally and physically before, so there is some comparison I rely on.

Those two experiences helped me sober up a bit.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (08/17/23 12:22 AM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Tropism]
    #28437431 - 08/17/23 05:57 PM (5 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Tropism said:
Perversion directly applies against those who are willing participants.

If it's consensual it it isn't perverted.

Full stop.




Perversion is abnormal social norms which is subjective. Seems like conflating terms to get around that understanding.

I suppose that various kinks, being abnormal, are not inherently hurtful but often a product of previous hurt. It could be that the taboo is in itself tempting, which beyond some specific instance of past abuse represents a schism in society, rebellion, a curious mixture of self doubt and assertion regarding one's identity and place in the world.

But judgement aside, perversion is simply abnormal and subjective. Without the judgement the word holds little value. Better to examine individual behaviors without judgement if one want's to dig deeper into meaning and reason without triggering shame and road blocks.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Edited by Rahz (08/17/23 06:03 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Rahz]
    #28437589 - 08/17/23 08:27 PM (5 months, 8 days ago)

Everything outside of missionary after the wedding can be considered abnormal social norms.

With over 300 types of kinks, plenty aren't based off trauma but curiosity and experimentation with consent and communication for good, slow and stop.

Nor are kinks necessarily hurtful, they're usually pleasurable. Hard spanking can have an erotic nature within the right boundaries.

The abnormality you present around the topic surprises me but is kind of the reason I wanted to discuss this, to try and see where the differences are for interpreting perversion.

I still think, "If it's consensual it isn't perverted", is a great base.

So perversion may be expressing sexuality outside of consent, while flirting is within mutual attraction.

So perverted can just mean non-consensual flirting. And perversion can become flirting through mutual attraction and consent? :strokebeard:


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleRahz
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly]
    #28437854 - 08/18/23 06:21 AM (5 months, 8 days ago)

Abnormality is the basis of the definition so I don't know why it would surprise you considering I included the caveat that it is the subjective opinion of society.

One can change the meaning of words or simply refuse to give a word merit/usage.

For the purpose of philosophy I tend to lean toward etymological definitions when still applicable, though I will agree it's colloquial use has veered toward an expression of disgust at unwanted behavior.

Also worth pointing out, guys don't generally ask a girl if there is consent to flirt. It is non-consensual until it's not. That why I suggested in my first reply a guy use some tact and not be overtly sexual in the opening.

I've read more than once that a potential difference between a creep and a hunk is whether his appearance is seen as attractive.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Rahz]
    #28438251 - 08/18/23 02:13 PM (5 months, 8 days ago)

Personally I tend not to flirt until we've met face to face, I've communicated my attraction and we've made out, after that I'm a lot more likely to flirt about first base. So I kinda flirt based on what base we've grown our mutual attraction to.

I think your comments kind of go back to the base of if there's mutual attraction, it's more likely to be considered flirting.


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InvisibleTropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Rahz]
    #28438774 - 08/18/23 11:38 PM (5 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

Tropism said:
Perversion directly applies against those who are willing participants.

If it's consensual it it isn't perverted.

Full stop.




Perversion is abnormal social norms which is subjective. Seems like conflating terms to get around that understanding.

I suppose that various kinks, being abnormal, are not inherently hurtful but often a product of previous hurt. It could be that the taboo is in itself tempting, which beyond some specific instance of past abuse represents a schism in society, rebellion, a curious mixture of self doubt and assertion regarding one's identity and place in the world.

But judgement aside, perversion is simply abnormal and subjective. Without the judgement the word holds little value. Better to examine individual behaviors without judgement if one want's to dig deeper into meaning and reason without triggering shame and road blocks.




I think my brain read that as the nomenclature, I don't disagree on the general concept of perversion. However consent is still #1, and I can't help think that fantasy is equally weighed in that reconciliation.


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InvisibleTropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly]
    #28438776 - 08/18/23 11:39 PM (5 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Personally I tend not to flirt until we've met face to face, I've communicated my attraction and we've made out, after that I'm a lot more likely to flirt about first base. So I kinda flirt based on what base we've grown our mutual attraction to.

I think your comments kind of go back to the base of if there's mutual attraction, it's more likely to be considered flirting.




Leave the braining to the brains, and the flirting to the bodies. I dig that.


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