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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly] 1
#28436625 - 08/16/23 11:25 PM (5 months, 9 days ago) |
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Perversion directly applies against those who are willing participants.
If it's consensual it it isn't perverted.
Full stop.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Tropism]
#28436645 - 08/17/23 12:06 AM (5 months, 9 days ago) |
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If you decide when the time comes, when is it time?
Maybe when you feel ready to face the alternative outcome to what you currently perceive as successful.
Sometimes I'm just doing things with myself, for myself.. quite often actually, it's why I value my independence. I solo explore the wilderness quite often and I'm rather qualified to be able to do so safely and with great awareness of the Ecology of the area.
I am also physically fit, experienced, and passionate about the environmental work and hobbies I do.
I am also dating 5 people through ENM communities with good communication and mutual attraction. Open, honest conversation.
It's been liberating to a degree. And I have gone through the experience of deprivation of liberty, both mentally and physically before, so there is some comparison I rely on.
Those two experiences helped me sober up a bit.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (08/17/23 12:22 AM)
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Tropism]
#28437431 - 08/17/23 05:57 PM (5 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tropism said: Perversion directly applies against those who are willing participants.
If it's consensual it it isn't perverted.
Full stop.
Perversion is abnormal social norms which is subjective. Seems like conflating terms to get around that understanding.
I suppose that various kinks, being abnormal, are not inherently hurtful but often a product of previous hurt. It could be that the taboo is in itself tempting, which beyond some specific instance of past abuse represents a schism in society, rebellion, a curious mixture of self doubt and assertion regarding one's identity and place in the world.
But judgement aside, perversion is simply abnormal and subjective. Without the judgement the word holds little value. Better to examine individual behaviors without judgement if one want's to dig deeper into meaning and reason without triggering shame and road blocks.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
Edited by Rahz (08/17/23 06:03 PM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Rahz]
#28437589 - 08/17/23 08:27 PM (5 months, 8 days ago) |
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Everything outside of missionary after the wedding can be considered abnormal social norms.
With over 300 types of kinks, plenty aren't based off trauma but curiosity and experimentation with consent and communication for good, slow and stop.
Nor are kinks necessarily hurtful, they're usually pleasurable. Hard spanking can have an erotic nature within the right boundaries.
The abnormality you present around the topic surprises me but is kind of the reason I wanted to discuss this, to try and see where the differences are for interpreting perversion.
I still think, "If it's consensual it isn't perverted", is a great base.
So perversion may be expressing sexuality outside of consent, while flirting is within mutual attraction.
So perverted can just mean non-consensual flirting. And perversion can become flirting through mutual attraction and consent?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly]
#28437854 - 08/18/23 06:21 AM (5 months, 8 days ago) |
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Abnormality is the basis of the definition so I don't know why it would surprise you considering I included the caveat that it is the subjective opinion of society.
One can change the meaning of words or simply refuse to give a word merit/usage.
For the purpose of philosophy I tend to lean toward etymological definitions when still applicable, though I will agree it's colloquial use has veered toward an expression of disgust at unwanted behavior.
Also worth pointing out, guys don't generally ask a girl if there is consent to flirt. It is non-consensual until it's not. That why I suggested in my first reply a guy use some tact and not be overtly sexual in the opening.
I've read more than once that a potential difference between a creep and a hunk is whether his appearance is seen as attractive.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Rahz]
#28438251 - 08/18/23 02:13 PM (5 months, 8 days ago) |
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Personally I tend not to flirt until we've met face to face, I've communicated my attraction and we've made out, after that I'm a lot more likely to flirt about first base. So I kinda flirt based on what base we've grown our mutual attraction to.
I think your comments kind of go back to the base of if there's mutual attraction, it's more likely to be considered flirting.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: Rahz]
#28438774 - 08/18/23 11:38 PM (5 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
Tropism said: Perversion directly applies against those who are willing participants.
If it's consensual it it isn't perverted.
Full stop.
Perversion is abnormal social norms which is subjective. Seems like conflating terms to get around that understanding.
I suppose that various kinks, being abnormal, are not inherently hurtful but often a product of previous hurt. It could be that the taboo is in itself tempting, which beyond some specific instance of past abuse represents a schism in society, rebellion, a curious mixture of self doubt and assertion regarding one's identity and place in the world.
But judgement aside, perversion is simply abnormal and subjective. Without the judgement the word holds little value. Better to examine individual behaviors without judgement if one want's to dig deeper into meaning and reason without triggering shame and road blocks.
I think my brain read that as the nomenclature, I don't disagree on the general concept of perversion. However consent is still #1, and I can't help think that fantasy is equally weighed in that reconciliation.
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Re: This is an honestly intuitive question. [Re: sudly]
#28438776 - 08/18/23 11:39 PM (5 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Personally I tend not to flirt until we've met face to face, I've communicated my attraction and we've made out, after that I'm a lot more likely to flirt about first base. So I kinda flirt based on what base we've grown our mutual attraction to.
I think your comments kind of go back to the base of if there's mutual attraction, it's more likely to be considered flirting.
Leave the braining to the brains, and the flirting to the bodies. I dig that.
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