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OfflineAneglakya
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Important New Petunia Information Found!
    #2842880 - 06/30/04 09:47 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I have found some interesting information in "The Botany and Chemistry of Hallucinogens" by Schultes and Hoffmann regarding petunia.

"The principal modern cultivated types of petunia are of the hybrid origin, derived from the purple flowered Petunia violacea and white flowered Petunia axillaris. Both are native to Argentina.

Petunia hybrida was reported to contain Petunidin chloride, a flavilium salt, the aglucone of petunin. Petunin forms violet plates with a copper lustre with dilute hydrochloric acid and has a melting point of about 178 degrees. This is the coloring matter in petunias. "

Well if Petunin / Petunidin chloride is the active constituent or closely related to the active constituent and has a low melting point, it is possible that if you boil it or heat your tea too much it will destroy the active chemicals!!

I also have a hunch that the store bought petunia's may be innactive hybrids. The material I worked with was truely Petunia voilacea grown organically in Argentina.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Important New Petunia Information Found! [Re: Aneglakya]
    #2842893 - 06/30/04 09:55 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Just to clarify for those who may not be "in the know"

>> Petunin forms violet plates with a copper lustre with dilute hydrochloric acid and has a melting point of about 178 degrees.

>>Well if Petunin / Petunidin chloride is the active constituent or closely related to the active constituent and has a low melting point, it is possible that if you boil it or heat your tea too much it will destroy the active chemicals!!


This is because for quite a lot of organic compounds they will degrade before they melt in a melting point experiment.

I should also mention that alkaloidaholic states it is the pigmentation agent and right now it's just educated speculation that it could also be the active principle, while this is a step forward lets not get too excited just yet.


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OfflineAneglakya
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Re: Important New Petunia Information Found! [Re: neuro]
    #2842899 - 06/30/04 10:00 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, I believe this is the colouring agent in Petunia. It isn't hard evidence of activity but I too believe that it is a step forward. When working with Shanin keep in mind the active constituents may have a low melting point.


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OfflineWysefool
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Re: Important New Petunia Information Found! [Re: Aneglakya]
    #2843035 - 06/30/04 11:27 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

what are your thoughts on a cold-water extraction?


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OfflineWysefool
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Re: Important New Petunia Information Found! [Re: Wysefool]
    #2843044 - 06/30/04 11:32 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Also if the colouring agent is the active is it then possible even the purple store-bought varieties are active?

And finally do you have any estimate of the dried weight of 1 flower? I have no scale...


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Important New Petunia Information Found! [Re: Wysefool]
    #2844156 - 06/30/04 05:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

>> what are your thoughts on a cold-water extraction?

Couldn't say, best bet is to get yourself some specimens you know are active and try both warm and cold water. One would have to know the structure of Petunin to even begin to speculate on it's solubility without actually testing it or having the pure chem in hand and testing it.


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: Important New Petunia Information Found! [Re: Aneglakya]
    #2844158 - 06/30/04 05:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alkaloidaholic said:
Petunia hybrida was reported to contain Petunidin chloride, a flavilium salt, the aglucone of petunin. Petunin forms violet plates with a copper lustre with dilute hydrochloric acid and has a melting point of about 178 degrees. This is the coloring matter in petunias. "

Well if Petunin / Petunidin chloride is the active constituent or closely related to the active constituent and has a low melting point, it is possible that if you boil it or heat your tea too much it will destroy the active chemicals!!






water won't go beyond 100C when boiling, i don't see how it could do harm to a substance with a MP of ~178C. i'm assuming it's Celsius scale...

anyways an interesting question came to my mind... how hot would it get inside a 10-15PSI pressure cooker? whats the melting pont of ayahuasca ingredients? it's known that it's possible to make aya in the PC in less time and more efficiently...


FH


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Important New Petunia Information Found! [Re: felixhigh]
    #2844189 - 06/30/04 06:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

>>water won't go beyond 100C when boiling, i don't see how it could do harm to a substance with a MP of ~178C. i'm assuming it's Celsius scale...

See my comments in the second post of this thread.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Important New Petunia Information Found! [Re: Aneglakya]
    #2844213 - 06/30/04 06:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Alk, Pm me if youre intersted in finding a new test subject.

peace
Casil


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: Important New Petunia Information Found! [Re: neuro]
    #2844710 - 06/30/04 08:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

yup, indeed!
i missed it.


FH


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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: Important New Petunia Information Found! [Re: Aneglakya]
    #2845435 - 07/01/04 12:26 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

So...its already a salt? I'm not too great at my chemistry, but Doesnt that make extraction really easy?


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Important New Petunia Information Found! [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #2847301 - 07/01/04 02:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


Petunin forms violet plates with a copper lustre with dilute hydrochloric acid





I think they meant it's a salt after it was reacted with dil HCl.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Important New Petunia Information Found! [Re: Aneglakya]
    #2848431 - 07/01/04 08:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

something wrong with eating the raw plant?


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OfflineWysefool
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Re: Important New Petunia Information Found! [Re: kadakuda]
    #2852863 - 07/03/04 01:34 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I shook up some petunias and coldwater and within seconds the water took on a VERY dark purple - once I get some more flowerheads in the mixture I'll strain and drink that while I make a tea with the remaining plant-matter. This is how I'd make a poppy tea and I've found it works well in the past.


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