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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
Re: Shrooms for anxiety or no? [Re: Soul Flight]
    #28420450 - 08/04/23 12:31 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Soul Flight said:
I know for sure around 3 to 8 grams causes extreme anxiety for 3 to 6 hours and full blown panic attacks. I am able to ride it out but I am white knuckling and begging the universe to let me survive. Over 3 grams causes extreme agitation and restlessness. Eyes are darting. Body cannot stop moving any muscle or limb or appendage. Constant wiggling and pacing and wriggling. Thoughts are scattered. There is no comfort in any song or media. I cannot bear my eyes open or closed. Everything is a hallucination. Heart is racing. Chest is squeezed.

I also feel my anxiety is possibly increasing with age or maybe just with psychedelic usage. I suspect I lived in an atheist materialist reductionist fantasy world prior to psychedelics. I now live in a wonderful integrated magical cosmic world but it is a very vulnerable world. The psychedelics reveal an uncertain chaotic world. But I find peace in truth and reality. I had a false peace with all my old dogmas and paradigms.

Be well :smile:




To an extent, I feel that if 3 grams causes anxiety, 1.5 grams or less can provide a bit of an 'inoculation' against anxiety - it gives someone a tiny taste of it, without being uncontrollable.

Anxiety can be used as a benchmark for dosing. The deepest insights require a dose that also causes anxiety. It can be what restricts the use of higher doses.

By the same token, after a too-intense experience, a small dose can feel breezy in comparison.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
Re: Shrooms for anxiety or no? [Re: Rache2020]
    #28421251 - 08/04/23 11:43 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Rache2020 said:
That's kind of how I feel about life in general, I get hyper focused on a slight pain, heartburn, panicked feeling etc. and then instead of waiting for it to pass I panic that it'll get worse. I feel SO vulnerable in this world, if I'm in pain no one is gonna know or care or experience what I'm experiencing. They will just stand around watching me losing it. It's just terrifying, and I know we're all in the same boat obviously I'm just hyper aware of it all the time. Gotta love that existential depression!




I'm no doctor, but this sounds like OCD-type thoughts. I'm not speaking from medical expertise but as someone who has been diagnosed as OCD and had it get bad at various times in life (while it improves a lot in others). I say this not to diagnose a condition but to point to common anxiety type and how I've dealt with it in the past.

Basically, thoughts will start feeling like they're moving on their own, in the sense that you realize there's this feeling of dread about some issue and you can't reason with it. E.g., in your example, you are aware that you are experiencing a minor pain - but suddenly you can't stop focusing on it, and it (beyond rationality) becomes a stronger pain.

Essentially it is panic pingponging off of panic, getting worse the more involved and intense the thought is. So the first pain is not so bad, but the worry about the pain getting bad is much worse, because you now are more intensely concentrating on the anxiety.

At this point, the mind starts to play a game where it attempts to break down and minimize the anxiety. But this sort of 'direct attack' on it makes it worse by engaging the mind even more - now one has pain, plus worry about the pain, plus worry about the obsessive thought structure behind that worry - creating a kind of recursion of anxieities, an ability for a small anxiety to transform into a large one.

The ways to combat this are, first, by reality checking. One can tell with a little reason that one probably isn't in genuine danger from a small amount of pain. One can use reason to extinguish the initial anxiety. But this doesn't work fully since some of the worry will remain even if fully logically debunked. The other way to combat it is by a kind of meditation, where one accepts the problem for how it is. One can't extinguish the thought nor attack it, and those things make it more powerful. One can however acknowledge and accept the thought - and only from that point can one move on from it.

I guess I make this post overall to give the general advice to try to get around these clusters of obsessions/anxieties. If you grab on and worry about the thought, it deepens the problem. You have to try to get around the feeling altogether - by meditating, by acknowledgement of the feeling, by moving on to something else, which is only possible by disengaging.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Registered: 05/30/21
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Re: Shrooms for anxiety or no? [Re: ShiroiTora]
    #28421904 - 08/05/23 01:48 PM (5 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

ShiroiTora said:
Mushrooms work at any dose for depression, but high doses are the only ones that work for anxiety. Psilohuasca I've actually found to be most helpful with anxiety, but that is a rough and extended duration trip, not for everyone.

OP if you are concerned about the family history and such, ashwagandha is more effective than any mushrooms I've ever taken for anxiety, 100%. Just keep taking it till it works(about 10 days for me) and don't stop abruptly. It also goes really nicely with tripping if you feel ready having taken the ashwagandha for a few weeks.




I'm just getting into ashwagandha again - why is it you recommend not stopping abruptly? Is there a minor withdrawal? Would you recommend tapering off?

I find it works very well when taken a few days in a row but I have to stop after a little while. It's a strange drug because it seems to be capable of being both a stimulant and anxiolytic. If I take it too many days in a row at too high a dose, it makes me a bit antsy. But the right dose seems to make me less anxious, so there's a definite balance.

The mechanism of action is on hormones - it targets the stress hormone cortisol. This can make one less capable of being anxious - at the same time, there are downstream effects that result in an increase in androgens, eg testosterone - which I imagine is associated with some of its benefits but also its possible drawbacks, in terms of the fact that some feel irritable on it.

I wanted to ask for more info because I always found it better to cycle - taking it 1-5 days then off. I find that because it acts on the hormones, some of the downstream effects can be felt days after ceasing it.

It's not a straightforward anxiolyitic - I'd say its success more depends on the state of the body as a whole, which is why they call it an adaptogen. I would guess it's best in combination with a more straightforward anxiolytic.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
Re: Shrooms for anxiety or no? [Re: ShiroiTora]
    #28423368 - 08/06/23 05:04 PM (5 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

ShiroiTora said:
I want to try Rhodiola rosea though, I've ordered 300g and it should be arriving next week. I think it sounds like more my style, especially now since I quit caffeine, I need all the mental energy I can get(been drinking caffeine daily since I was 10, only above 400mg/day in the last 5 years thankfully), and that "blanket" feels less necessary now that I'm not caffeinated all the time.




That's one I did research on in the past. I don't know if you're aware, but it's been tested and confirmed to have MAOI effects - might make it pretty effective for increasing energy, but of course it might have a potential reaction with other substances.

Given what you say about using rue though, I know you're more than familiar with MAOIs. I'd be curous to hear if you notice a MAOI effect it, comparable to the psychoactivity of rue.


Edited by CreonAntigone (08/06/23 05:45 PM)


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
Re: Shrooms for anxiety or no? [Re: Rache2020]
    #28425373 - 08/08/23 07:46 AM (5 months, 17 days ago)

Had the craziest dream last night - and I'm a person who almost never remembers their dreams. It conincided not just with me quitting weed recently (as I've posted about) but I had also taken a large dose of ashwagandha extract. I went out like a light for eight hours, surprisingly considering it's been harder without the weed.

I don't know if the dream was weirder than your 'average' dream, but it was very weird for me to remember damn near all of it. I hadn't remembered any other dreams the past few weeks, weed or not, so I gotta think ashwagandha played a role.


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