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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom
    #28414233 - 07/30/23 04:54 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Family of US woman who died from ingesting kratom wins $11m damages
July 30, 2023 - The Guardian

The family of a Florida woman who died in 2021 after ingesting kratom has been awarded more than $11m from a distributor of the south-east Asian herbal extract that has an opioid-like effect on the brain.

In a ruling finalized on Thursday, Judge Donald Middlebrooks of the federal courthouse in West Palm Beach, Florida, told a company operating as the Kratom Distro to pay damages to the four surviving children of Krystal Talavera as well as her estate.

“There is of course no amount of money that will make up for the pain and suffering that Ms Talavera’s children are enduring because of their mother’s death,” Middlebrooks wrote in court records addressing the sanction against Kratom Distro. “The law nonetheless recognizes that the defendant must pay something, however inadequate.”

Talavera’s oldest son, Devin Filipelli, provided a statement to McClatchy News which expressed hope that his family award would highlight what he called “the dangers of kratom”.

“I am grateful for the judge’s decision, but no amount of money will bring my mom back or numb my pain,” Filipelli’s statement said.

Kratom Distro’s owner – Sean Michael Harder – told the Guardian on Saturday that he had no comment on Middlebrooks’s judgment or whether he may seek a reversal of it. The judgment was a default one, meaning the company did not try to defend itself in the preceding litigation.

The US Drug Enforcement Agency in 2016 had imposed its strictest restrictions on kratom, which experts say is made from the leaves of an evergreen tree and is often used by people to self-treat pain, anxiety, depression and opioid addiction as well as withdrawal.

There was an intense, immediate public backlash to that approach, however, and it prompted the DEA to rescind its prohibition of kratom, which is sold in stores and online.

The US Food and Drug Administration nonetheless has warned consumers over possible safety and addiction risks associated with kratom, and it has spoken in favor of more research aimed at gaining a better understanding of “the substance and its components”.

Friends of Talavera, a resident of the Florida community of Boynton Beach, introduced her to kratom years before her death. Her family said she regarded it as a safe, natural supplement and had taken some after buying it online from the Kratom Distro when her partner and the father of her youngest child – Biagio Vultaggio – found her unconscious in the living room on 20 June 2021.

The 39-year-old Talavera was face down on the ground next to an open bag of a kratom derivative marketed as a “space dust”, her family has said. Vultaggio called paramedics, and they took Talavera to a hospital. There, she was pronounced dead.

An autopsy later listed Talavera’s cause of death as acute intoxication from mitragynine, a main kratom component. The local coroner whose office performed Talavera’s autopsy wrote in a report that “at high concentrations, mitragynine produces opioid-like effects, such as respiratory failure”.

Filipelli – who had graduated from high school the day before his mother died – later sued the Kratom Distro over Talavera’s death.

According to a statement from the law firm which represented Talavera’s family, Filipelli explained at subsequent court proceedings that the grief he endured over losing his mom derailed his plans for college at the University of Florida.

An ex-husband of Talavera, Benny Flores, added that two sons whom he shared with the late woman were struggling to move on from their mother’s untimely death. One of them “kept asking when his mother was coming back”, the law firm’s news release said.

One of the attorneys for Talavera’s family, Tamara Williams, said in a statement that the judgment won by her clients “should be a wake-up call to the kratom industry”.

Williams’s firm said it had also recently won a $2.5m jury verdict against a kratom manufacturer in Washington state after a separate lawsuit alleging a wrongful death.

A colleague of Williams, Michael Cowgill, called on government officials to take steps “to protect other families from having to deal with unnecessary kratom overdose deaths”.

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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Registered: 01/06/19
Posts: 1,576
Re: Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom [Re: veggie] * 3
    #28414239 - 07/30/23 04:59 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

....when people die from alcohol poisoning the alcohol manufacturers and distributors don't pay for it.

Unless the kratom was adulterated with something else this makes no sense.

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Offlineviraldrome
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Re: Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom [Re: veggie] * 2
    #28414535 - 07/30/23 09:36 PM (9 months, 14 days ago)

Good luck collecting 11m from a fly by night kratom vendor. If i drink myself to death my family can't sue Johnny Walker.


--------------------
Lysergamides I have tried so far: 1P-LSD, 1cP-LSD, ALD-52, AL-LAD, LSZ, ETH-LAD, MIPLA, EIPLA, 1cP-AL-LAD

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OfflinePs.NoName
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Re: Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom [Re: viraldrome]
    #28414904 - 07/31/23 09:41 AM (9 months, 14 days ago)

It probably comes down to labeling of the product "not for human consumption" and FDA's stance on the product.  Total bullshit considering people drink (alcohol) themselves to death.

I'd be hard to believe Kratom really caused the death.  I've messed around with this stuff and it seems almost impossible to overdose on.  High doses made me physically ill, but does not suppress breathing. Plus the bulk size of that much crush leaf powder is a lot consume.  Maybe a purified extract is different than the raw leaf. 

Unless you are suing a major company, good luck ever collecting.  That LLC kratom vendor just goes bankrupt and they never see a dime. These debts are not like child support where they can garnish personal wages. 

I figure the pharma companies want kratom illegal so they pay for lawsuits like this and make sure the media gets involved.


--------------------
Set me off, see what I'm worth. Turn me on, I go berserk.


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OfflineWayne420303
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Registered: 09/09/12
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Re: Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom [Re: Ps.NoName]
    #28415123 - 07/31/23 01:45 PM (9 months, 13 days ago)

I agree with you on that, i once took 11 grams of kratom oraly via tossnwash, and the worst thing that happened is i threw up , but that was it, i was even on my way to clocking in at a call center job i used to work back in 2019 lol.


--------------------


The Psychonaut

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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
Re: Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom [Re: Wayne420303] * 1
    #28415791 - 08/01/23 04:22 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

The recommended dose of powdered kratom is up to 1-3 grams, no more than 10 grams daily and no more than 3-4 days a week. A lot of people do way more than that, and I've seen youtubers gobbling up tablespoon after tablespoon, claiming they do 28 grams, 3 times a day, every day. I don't know how much powder is fatal, but I'm pretty sure somebody would choke to death before enough mitragynine got in their system to kill them.

The product she was taking, Space Dust, was a concentrate. I looked up what people said about it online:

Quote:

Re: space dust (original) or 200x

Post by Roofdog » Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:40 am
This stuff is insane. Will knock you down hard. I have 50g and only use .1g at a time. First time i got it i was on my a$$ for about 3 hrs. Be careful!! But really good.

Re: space dust (original) or 200x

Post by TheDude007 » Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:54 am
careful w. that stuff is all im sayin...

Re: the kratom distro space dust extract

/r/vendorsofkratom, 2022-07-25, 17:36:11
Super strong

/r/vendorsofkratom, 2023-02-10, 19:37:34
I ordered the 200x extract from them and it comes in today. It says dose .2 grams.




The company no longer sells Space Dust but is selling Full Spectrum 200x Kratom Extract in powder and capsules as a 1 to 1 equivalent, along with the warning:
"NOT INTENDED FOR NEW KRATOM USERS.  PLEASE USE RESPONSIBLY
Please do not use more than .2g at one time!"

The woman who died was not a new user and had been taking kratom for years, according to the article. She took it for medical issues, to get off opiates, or just to get high. Who knows how much she took, if there were other meds or drugs in her system, or if she had pre-existing medical conditions.

She was an adult, knew what kratom was, been taking it for years, ordered it online where she could read the warnings and disclainers, and chose to take it. I don't blame the company one bit for her death.

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Offlineoursoulsinmotion
Come Down To Us
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Registered: 10/04/21
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Re: Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom [Re: veggie]
    #28415810 - 08/01/23 05:30 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

Does it say anywhere how long she had been using Kratom for?


--------------------
Alikchi...., Alikchi...., Alikchi....

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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
Re: Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom [Re: oursoulsinmotion]
    #28415819 - 08/01/23 06:02 AM (9 months, 13 days ago)

The article above says 'years'. How many years, I don't know.

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InvisibleWhyterye
Male

Registered: 02/23/18
Posts: 1,238
Loc: Colorado
Re: Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom [Re: veggie]
    #28416164 - 08/01/23 12:38 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Wooow this world is fucked

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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Registered: 04/02/08
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Re: Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom [Re: veggie] * 1
    #28416281 - 08/01/23 02:23 PM (9 months, 12 days ago)

(My emphasis.)
Quote:

The Guardian said:
a kratom derivative marketed as a “space dust”




Quote:

Brave AI Summarizer said:
Space Dust is a synthetic drug derived from Kratom




People always do a bunch of weird things, every time this is going to get banned.

They hoard it, before it becomes illegal.

They can't move it, because noone is entirely sure whether it is chickenshit or deadly.

They wind up giving it away in horse trades and free samples. Free swag will usually be floating around the Marketplace and headshops, eventually.

But, right now, alot of these guys are taking their ads down, while the heat is on.

Quote:

r/Vendorsofkratom on Reddit: Space Dust Review
reddit.com › r/vendorsofkratom › space dust review

May 7, 2022 - I tried to 100x and they sent me a sample of the space dust. I love not having to take so much powder and just buying shots everyday ya know. I still can’t get my dosage right tho. I’m a spaz most of the time and I hate it lol. Kratom Distro is legit tho guys.



Quote:

r/Vendorsofkratom has been banned from Reddit




I saw alot of stores had the space dust page taken down today, while I just trying to read what is in it. I'll repeat that for emphasis. Trying to read what is in it. Something that is going in your mouth.


Quote:

https://www.doublemherbals.com/viewtopic.php?t=9582&__cf_chl_tk=pbYQ8TTw2aSSwlSOIX18FlCioYbwQ_6d12Mo7nTIL0w-1690919769-0-gaNycGzNCyU

im very familiar with the original space dust from kd but im curious has anyone who tried that also used the 200x and if so how would you say they compared to each other?
...
This stuff is insane. Will knock you down hard. I have 50g and only use .01g at a time. First time i got it i was on my a$$ for about 3 hrs. Be careful!! But really good.





Suggestion. It might be mild, in natural form, especially if you are not opiate naive. The concentrate helps with the gag factor of swallowing mouthfuls of yucky powder. :alert: But, this acts upon opiate channels.

You are either building up that insane tolerance, or are depleting your own system of bodily feelgood chemicals, as is notorious with drug addicts.

Most people won't just admit this and strictly police themselves. 

I have a non-addictive personality. I can see where this would be a useful commodity for barter and in case of some emergencies.

I call tell you from experience that the addicts around me will waste anything good and useful faster than I can create it.

I feel like I would have to hide it.

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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Registered: 07/29/10
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Re: Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom [Re: veggie]
    #28417193 - 08/02/23 08:31 AM (9 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

veggie said:
The recommended dose of powdered kratom is up to 1-3 grams, no more than 10 grams daily and no more than 3-4 days a week. A lot of people do way more than that, and I've seen youtubers gobbling up tablespoon after tablespoon, claiming they do 28 grams, 3 times a day, every day. I don't know how much powder is fatal, but I'm pretty sure somebody would choke to death before enough mitragynine got in their system to kill them.

The product she was taking, Space Dust, was a concentrate. I looked up what people said about it online:

Quote:

Re: space dust (original) or 200x

Post by Roofdog » Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:40 am
This stuff is insane. Will knock you down hard. I have 50g and only use .1g at a time. First time i got it i was on my a$$ for about 3 hrs. Be careful!! But really good.

Re: space dust (original) or 200x

Post by TheDude007 » Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:54 am
careful w. that stuff is all im sayin...

Re: the kratom distro space dust extract

/r/vendorsofkratom, 2022-07-25, 17:36:11
Super strong

/r/vendorsofkratom, 2023-02-10, 19:37:34
I ordered the 200x extract from them and it comes in today. It says dose .2 grams.




The company no longer sells Space Dust but is selling Full Spectrum 200x Kratom Extract in powder and capsules as a 1 to 1 equivalent, along with the warning:
"NOT INTENDED FOR NEW KRATOM USERS.  PLEASE USE RESPONSIBLY
Please do not use more than .2g at one time!"

The woman who died was not a new user and had been taking kratom for years, according to the article. She took it for medical issues, to get off opiates, or just to get high. Who knows how much she took, if there were other meds or drugs in her system, or if she had pre-existing medical conditions.

She was an adult, knew what kratom was, been taking it for years, ordered it online where she could read the warnings and disclainers, and chose to take it. I don't blame the company one bit for her death.





I'm one of these people. I take too much kratom for sure. I took an overdose amount of red vein once. My vision got blurry, I couldn't walk. I would stand up and my legs would shake and buckle. It was no fun.


--------------------


Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!

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OfflinePs.NoName
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Re: Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28417809 - 08/02/23 07:37 PM (9 months, 11 days ago)

So it was an extract.... Vendors should only be selling crushed leaf in my opinion which is damn near impossible to OD on.

Quote:

veggie said:

I'm one of these people. I take too much kratom for sure. I took an overdose amount of red vein once. My vision got blurry, I couldn't walk. I would stand up and my legs would shake and buckle. It was no fun.




I believe that is what people call the "kratom wobbles".  Unpleasant and a sign I took to much and barfing will soon be happening.  I think for me when it messes with my eyes like that It makes me feel motion sickness.

I am kind of surprised people can overdo crushed leaf kratom.  It absolutely has a self limiting effect, take too much and it sucks, feel bad.  Take it too often and it stops working.  If you take it too often and start taking high doses it still makes (me) barf.


--------------------
Set me off, see what I'm worth. Turn me on, I go berserk.


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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
Re: Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom [Re: Ps.NoName]
    #28421274 - 08/05/23 12:46 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

The quote you attributed to me was actually said by Sulfurshelfsean, just pointing that out for accuracy sake -

Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:

I'm one of these people. I take too much kratom for sure. I took an overdose amount of red vein once. My vision got blurry, I couldn't walk. I would stand up and my legs would shake and buckle. It was no fun.




Yes, Space Dust was a concentrate/extract.

I bought powdered kratom leaf some time back. I don't remember the date, but Obama was still president, so a while ago. I still have some.

Even way back then, supporters of kratom, while advocating the many benefits, were advising people to stay away from  extracts, enhanced leaf, and tictures. They warned that for new users, it was a good way to become addicted and while it would work for heavy abusers who developed a high tolerance, the best strategy was instead to take a temporary break from kratom.

I have no problem regulating extracts and leaf with age restrictions and disclaimers. It is prefectly legal in the great majority of the country. It is very difficult to arrest and punish people buying or selling a legal product, but it is very clear there is a war on kratom and if companies cannot be legally shut down there are always those who will sue them til they can no longer afford to stay open.

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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 18,037
Loc: Raccoon City
Re: Family Awarded $11 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit over Kratom [Re: veggie]
    #28421281 - 08/05/23 12:53 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

I want to be unconditionally in favor of cognitive liberty and all the natural medicines. I am a scromit denialist.  But, we should technically be afraid of some random, green powder if we can't identify when it's a potent concentrate.

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