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Offlinecadaverbated
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: cadaverbated]
    #28416282 - 08/01/23 02:24 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/22/12/6490

not only was it optimized for humans but mechanically engineered to keep expressing and not turn off


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Offlinecadaverbated
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: cadaverbated]
    #28416284 - 08/01/23 02:25 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

can u give an example first


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: cadaverbated]
    #28416296 - 08/01/23 02:39 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

cadaverbated said:
https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/22/12/6490

not only was it optimized for humans but mechanically engineered to keep expressing and not turn off




im not finding engineered or mechanically in the article.

i am not up to date on common language for virologists but i dont see the support of your claim here.

could you please quote the paragraph you believe is stating that covid was mechanically engineered.

i would point out to you that things like 'insertion'and 'cleavage' arent necessarily describing artificial actions.

i would also say that i am of the school of thought that if a virus breaks out in an area right beside a virus lab, that more than likely the lab was somehow involved, be it purposeful or accidental.

if im beside a golf course and a golfball crashes through my sunroof i dont suspect it fell out of an airplane.

but what im getting from the article is the mechanisms by which covid was able to quickly infect human hosts and not how it was engineered to do so.


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


Edited by rxb (08/01/23 02:44 PM)


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Offlinecadaverbated
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: rxb]
    #28416298 - 08/01/23 02:42 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

its not hard to balkanize language when schools are based on creating job markets


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: cadaverbated]
    #28416301 - 08/01/23 02:46 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

I suspect you’re going to get some ratings soon.


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Offlinecadaverbated
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: christopera]
    #28416304 - 08/01/23 02:48 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

yeah i said it could be a ton of scenarios just not from nature


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: cadaverbated]
    #28416306 - 08/01/23 02:51 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

None of your linked articles say it couldn't be from nature.  As a result, your hypothesis that it must be engineered is squarely in the conspiracy theory category and doesn't belong here.


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Offlinecadaverbated
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: Enlil]
    #28416311 - 08/01/23 02:55 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

do u ask an expert witness about other ppls conflicts

i cant prove anything with bayesian modeling just list studies with high p values


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: cadaverbated]
    #28416313 - 08/01/23 02:56 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

cadaverbated said:

i cant prove anything



Finally something accurate.


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Offlinecadaverbated
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: Enlil]
    #28416320 - 08/01/23 03:00 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

We observed a weak positive correlation between codon usage of SARS-CoV-2 viral genes and all human genes (protein-coding fragments; linear correlation coefficient (CC) = 0.07, Supplementary Table S1). This is consistent with a recent study in which it was shown that codon usage tended to be more similar to that of symptomatic hosts than that of natural hosts, supporting a concept of the general deleterious effect of excessive codon usage similarity between virus and host [12]. Interestingly, the CGG codon is a frequently used codon among arginine codons (AGR, R = A or G; CGN, N = A, T, G or C) in the human protein-coding genes and the rarest one among all codons in SARS-CoV-2 (Supplementary Table S1). For highly expressed ribosomal genes this tendency is weaker (frequency: CGC—24%, AGA—18%, CGG—17%, AGG—15%, CGA—13%, CGT—13%) [13]. It should be noted that most CG-containing codons are somewhat depleted in human protein-coding genes, and almost all CG-containing codons are substantially depleted in SARS-CoV-2 (Supplementary Table S1). This contrasting behavior of CGG codons (0.02% vs. 1.15%) and somewhat similar behavior of the CG-containing codons, in general, in the viral and host genomes remains an open question; various explanations have been put forward [14,15,16,17].


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Offlinecadaverbated
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: cadaverbated]
    #28416502 - 08/01/23 05:09 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

he deleted a study cause it wasnt peer reviewed :cool2:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: cadaverbated]
    #28416503 - 08/01/23 05:10 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

I deleted a post because it was conspiracy theory.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: cadaverbated]
    #28416526 - 08/01/23 05:31 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

cadaverbated said:
https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/22/12/6490

not only was it optimized for humans but mechanically engineered to keep expressing and not turn off




Any virus that causes widespread infections in humans is optimized for humans, and evolution is very good at finding successful conformations.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28416529 - 08/01/23 05:35 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

its probably not necessary for a mod to delete something that shows where your personal political opinion comes from.

since this is a politics subforum and not a scientific one.

but i think you are reading things into that data that the scientists are not claiming.

rare things still happen in nature. unusual things happen in nature. and while that study may lend itself to SUPPORT a claim, it isnt a claim unto itself.


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->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: rxb] * 1
    #28416548 - 08/01/23 05:54 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

It is a slippery slope in here, and you're pretty new.  This forum has on many occasions gotten bogged down in conspiracy theories.  This thread in particular was basically started from the perspective of a conspiracy theorist.  While I do believe this is a legitimate political topic given the report, I'm not going to let this turn into one of the 100 other covid conspiracy threads on this site.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: rxb]
    #28416549 - 08/01/23 05:56 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

I do agree that a furin cleavage site is exactly the kind of modification a researcher would make to a virus to improve its fitness. And there are papers out there where this type of insertion has been made to see how it changed the virus/host interaction. But nature could stumble upon this insertion itself and it is exactly the type of adaptation that would bring a virus to our attention by causing a worldwide pandemics. Without the furin cleavage site, sars-cov2 would never have taken off in a human population.

In the end there really is no evidence of either the natural or lab leak theories, and there probably will never be. I think we should accept that we may never know, and it’s not an appropriate topic for political debate.

I do think it’s interesting that if the original virus is manmade, it only took nature a few months to improve upon that creation and drive the original virus into extinction.


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“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (08/01/23 06:04 PM)


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Offlinecadaverbated
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: koods]
    #28416557 - 08/01/23 06:01 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

most models put it around 1 in 3 billion but i think that there are so many factors that lead to evolution and it seems we only have heavily tampered with influenza viruses as a standard for viral genetic drift

if u want more studies we need ecological surveillance which is a big interest in all this coming from the darpa side of things


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: cadaverbated]
    #28416570 - 08/01/23 06:13 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

The furin cleavage insertion is only four codons. If this was a virus that is widespread and replicating in an animal population practically every possible mutation has occurred, and the furin site mutation is such a significant gain of function that it is highly selectable during host interactions.

It’s a very interesting scientific mystery that has been ruined by politics. It’s also medically irrelevant. There’s really nothing to gain from having law enforcement involved in investigating the origins. I don’t really care what the FBI assessment is. Without documented proof that someone made this virus or a confession, I don’t think any circumstantial evidence will be sufficient to make accusations of responsibility


Edited by koods (08/01/23 06:23 PM)


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Offlinecadaverbated
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: koods]
    #28416629 - 08/01/23 07:09 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

its really easy to do its like 1 in 4^12 with a lil tweaks based on the base


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Covid Origin [Re: koods]
    #28416650 - 08/01/23 07:20 PM (5 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:

I do think it’s interesting that if the original virus is manmade, it only took nature a few months to improve upon that creation and drive the original virus into extinction.




That makes sense.  In a lab setting, you're gonna run a bunch of simulations to derive the changes you think you want and then do a limited number of experiments to see if the simulations were accurate.  In a pandemic, the virus is making bazillions of subtly mutated copies of itself driven primarily by randomness but bounded by selective pressures that effectively force the result of a virus better adapted for survival than a human produced product.  Just like how domesticated livestock wouldn't survive in the wild despite extensive breeding for "desirable" traits


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