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luteofolius 2.0
Mycologist


Registered: 10/16/22
Posts: 41
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
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Phenotypic expression vs speciation 1
#28413340 - 07/29/23 10:18 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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I'm doing a bit of my own research and I realized the shroomery lacks information on this topic so feel free to learn me and also add information to the site for others to benefit from in the future.
What do you know about phenotypic expression causing different morphological traits based upon the environment and genetics. If it pertains to mycology that's even better. Thanks so much, feel free to participate and mush love amigos.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



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I feel like this is worded backwards, genetics and environment dictate phenotypic expression. (E.g. morphological traits) not the other way around.
I know petroleum product contamination is believed to be the cause of rosecomb mutations, is that kind of what you mean?
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Just M
Cosmic Student


Registered: 08/06/23
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Loc: South Africa
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Re: Phenotypic expression vs speciation [Re: tryptkaloids]
#28437753 - 08/18/23 01:19 AM (5 months, 7 days ago) |
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APE x NSS cross I created
Cluster heaven.
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Camera93
We got dicks like Jesus



Registered: 08/15/18
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Re: Phenotypic expression vs speciation [Re: Just M]
#28438144 - 08/18/23 12:25 PM (5 months, 7 days ago) |
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Muad.Dweeb
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Re: Phenotypic expression vs speciation [Re: Just M] 2
#28438184 - 08/18/23 12:50 PM (5 months, 7 days ago) |
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Well, speciation is the process of genetic drift causing a group to differentiate from the species it was once part of, typically marked by the loss of ability to mutually breed. The species concept is proving to be more nebulous in fungi, though. Speciation is also something that seems to take place over considerably longer periods than we would observe in cultivation, individually, even with the short generation cycles we work with.
Phenotype is expression, so "phenotypic expression" is a bit redundant. The easy way to remember this is "phenotype" refers to the "phenomenon" being described and typified. Phenotype is the culmination of genetic information and how environmental factors (everything from resources to competitors) influence the expression of those genetic factors. Phenotype can also refer to a specific gene expression, or to overall organism expression, or to systems and organs and structures in between (when cells differentiate in the body to perform specific function, they can be referred to by their phenotypes- lung cells, muscle cells, etc...)
In Dikarya, which almost all "mushrooms" fall under, the fact that two haploid nuclei are being referenced when forming fruit bodies, it's easier for the non-dominant allele to be referenced when forming new cell structures, and natural variation will occur (even in clones with well controlled fruiting conditions). Aside from that, the specific and ultra-local conditions within a fruiting environment cause fruits to form and mature slightly differently. An extreme illustrative example of this is if you imagine identical twins at age 50, with the only difference being one has been a smoker for 35 years. Intuitively, we know that singular difference has the potential to produce drastically different outcomes.
I hope that is some food for thought.
-------------------- A beginning is the time for taking the most delicate care that the balances are correct. This every sister of the Bene Gesserit knows.
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covertjoy

Registered: 07/09/23
Posts: 272
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Re: Phenotypic expression vs speciation [Re: Muad.Dweeb]
#28438810 - 08/19/23 02:26 AM (5 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Muad.Dweeb said: typically marked by the loss of ability to mutually breed.
Disagree with this part. Typically when speciation occurs the two species still have the ability to breed. It is usually precluded by selection or lack of access not by ability.
Imagine a forest with a population of deer, and then a 6 lane motorway with barricades is built through the forest separating the population into two. Let's say one side has access to a lake and the other side has access to mountain. Over time the two populations will drift genetically until speciation is said to have occurred. At this point the two species are very likely still able to breed and create viable hybrid offspring.
The two species are deer populations may only be separated by proximity.
However if the two populations regain access to each other (a bridge is built), the two populations are likely to remain separated for the most part due to selection of offspring that are phenotypically well adapted to each environment. Pure mountain deer will be better adapted to the mountain area compared to hybrids and pure lake deer will be better adapted to living by the lake compared to hybrids.
There is often a zone in the middle where hybrids exist but this doesn't diffuse outwards and it has been observed that the hybrids are not integrated into either of the species.
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luteofolius 2.0
Mycologist


Registered: 10/16/22
Posts: 41
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Re: Phenotypic expression vs speciation [Re: tryptkaloids]
#28440740 - 08/20/23 02:49 PM (5 months, 5 days ago) |
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Yeah definitely and I think your correct I suffer from confabulation lol so do ur best amigo. Yeah I'm trying to figure out if a fungi found a few years ago, tested on the shroomery for DNA, matched to Panaeolus cinctulus, and yet looked macroscopically different. I wanna know if fungicide or fertilizer, grass heighth, or humidity, could cause this possible mutation. I'm just still learning a lot and everything helps.
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