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Wonderer Registered: 11/01/13 Posts: 506 Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours |
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I don't know how to explain it other than I feel like I've been seriously duped by myself. All of this stuff about mysticism is actually... real? Like, I had no idea this stuff was actually real? I was convinced it was fake.
But now I see all the messages people here are posting and where my own studies are leaving to me, and it's definitely confirming "something". I don't know what that "something" is, but I find solace in a nice passage from Angels and Aliens by Keith Thompson in quoting Michael Murphy: Quote: Yep, this stuff is definitely real. Just don't know what to make out of it at all. Either it's a serious delusion that the scientific method hasn't explained or it's proof of something I don't know... I'm not sure why people aren't making a bigger deal about this... And now we're finally talking about UFOs (again)... -------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality." Edited by solarshroomster (07/28/23 09:01 AM)
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Wonderer Registered: 11/01/13 Posts: 506 Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours |
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I just registered a new domain name, ineffablenoetic.com, it stands for:
Ineffable - Incapable of being expressed in words : INDESCRIBABLE Noetic - inner wisdom, direct knowing, intuition, or implicit understanding. the highest faculty in man, through which - provided it is purified - he knows God or the inner essences or principles of created things through direct apprehension or spiritual perception” So, I'm looking at the Wiki page on ineffability and it lists several things in the "See also" (you learn so much by reading the 'See also's by the way), that interest me: Apophatic (or "negative") theology: Quote: Ideasthesia: Quote: I've been previously pretty interested in the concept of ideasthesia preceding seeing these "See alsos", so I find it awfully coincidental that Reality conspired to present two of these things that I'm interested in in the same fashion (ugh, I don't know how to describe it). Anyhow, I take solace in what Lithop told me once that when you begin to place effort on appreciation, as opposed to explanation, new windows into perception fling open. (Correct me on that if I miscited you). I don't need to explain any of this... And look at this engraving by Otto van Veen from 1660: it says: What no eye has seen, nor ear heard And, so, it is with ineffable indescribable concepts. But, wow... wow... Anyhow, I feel like the existence of the ineffable is a concession of the existence of what I mean by the word "mystical". Didn't think this stuff actually existed... -------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Neti Neti Registered: 02/07/15 Posts: 7,426 Loc: The Pathless Path |
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Here is another parallel for apophatic theology
Neti Neti (Sanskrit : नेति नेति) is a Sanskrit expression which means "not this, not that", or "neither this, nor that" (neti is sandhi from na iti "not so"). It is found in the Upanishads and the Avadhuta Gita and constitutes an analytical meditation helping a person to understand the nature of the Brahman by negating everything that is not Brahman. One of the key elements of Jnana Yoga practice is often a "neti neti search." The purpose of the exercise is to negate all objects of consciousness, including thoughts and the mind, and to realize the non-dual awareness of reality. Also here is a great quote from a Christian mystic who was known for apophatic theology Quote: Another one Quote: Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite -------------------- 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
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Wonderer Registered: 11/01/13 Posts: 506 Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours |
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Mind blown by you connectedcosmos, thank you..!! Yep, I was definitely misled into thinking these things were fake. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality." Edited by solarshroomster (07/28/23 12:18 PM)
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Stranger Registered: 05/30/21 Posts: 2,875 |
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The dupe is religion. Lots of people recognize that it is possible to have divine experiences, but they set it up under certain teams and sets of rules, set up rulers on earth supposed to represent the divine (popes, etc) who are as human as anyone, and tell us that anyone belonging to the 'other team' will go to hell.
The simplicity of divine experience is apparent in the living of life. Religion is what clouds it by dividing it. There are atheists who then get so mad at religion they forget the divine experience that was really behind it all - a shame for them.
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Wonderer Registered: 11/01/13 Posts: 506 Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours |
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Quote: Interesting thoughts. To me, the bigger problem is the atheists. They really convinced me that it was all just a security blanket. They convinced me to think so literally about everything, I became blind to the ineffable, allegorical meaning behind things. I'm truly disappointed in them. You say "Lots of people recognize that it is possible to have divine experiences," but I'm not sure that's the case. I think it's more accurate to say, lots of people are hopeful that it is possible to have divine experiences, but don't have any idea of what that is and are told it probably doesn't exist, or is just a security blanket for those afraid of death. In fact, I was one person who was told having a "divine experience" was impossible. What's divine? they chirp. Circular reasoning! Logical fallacy! You see what they did to me? They convinced me it was all fake. How could I not be anything but disappointed? This issue was so serious that I had to see a psychiatrist and ask if I was psychotic. Now that I see that I was duped and know the higher dimension, everything rings with meaning. The universe has come alive, because it always was alive through us (a truth I could not have appreciated when I was indoctrinated to think of a world "out there", as opposed to "in here" through astronomy... you see what I'm getting at?) -------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Neti Neti Registered: 02/07/15 Posts: 7,426 Loc: The Pathless Path |
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Quote: -Alan Watts I've shared this plenty of times on here IIRC , thought it was worth a share in this thread -------------------- 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
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Do U know who yur fuckin with? Registered: 10/18/17 Posts: 4,522 Loc: |
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Quote: Sorry to see you're slipping further from reality Delude yourself if that's what you're into
-------------------- Pastywhyte's easy no pour agar dishes YOUR NEXT FAVORITE ALBUM Stallion Mang’s Ween covers
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Wonderer Registered: 11/01/13 Posts: 506 Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours |
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Quote: I previously thought there wasn't anything to slip away from. -------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Spaghetti Days Registered: 04/09/22 Posts: 764 Loc: 🛸 |
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Apt how I just changed my title to "Chapel Perilous" it seems you may have become an alter boy there without even realising it bro.
"I woke up in a snowstorm, painted in frost. And strange designs that connected all my thoughts I was a bird lost in a storm- far away from home, with no idea where I've flown" Quote: Not a miscite, but rather than take solace in it - which is all well and good- I beg that you really try to take the message onboard. CreonAntigone hit the nail on the head just before with: Quote: Don't you see that this is the message being propsed to you, time and again? You don't like the answer that things are exactly how they are, regardless of your level of understanding? To accept & embrace your life as it comes, as it constantly changes allows you a position where you can enjoy both the mystical and practical aspects of existence without the need of either bogging you down. For example: allow yourself to appreciate the innate wonder of evolution- study local plants & animals, how they interact with each other & their environment to shape the entire ecosystem around them. Or learn music theory, dive into how the parsing & arranging of frequency can open a whole world governed by interesting rules and intrinsic discovery around every corner. My point being, stop pushing so hard on this that you break yourself. I promise you will give in before 'reality' does, don't turn these ideas that gave you such a sense of relief and freedom into another thought prison for yourself. Imagine you were the first person to invent.... a hammer. Why spend the rest of your life convincing others that there is this amazing tool out there, than to actually use the hammer to fucking fix some stuff? What do you really WANT from your discoveries, from your learnings? Quote: The focus that others duping you, lying to you, keeping things from you etc putting you into the role of victim is the most concerning aspect, bro. This versus mentality about something that, ultimately, your mental sovereignty/autonomy could hinge on, is beyond standing on a knives edge. Allow other people to believe what they want man, what right have you to 'force their hand' the way you feel yours was forced? As for everything ringing with meaning- you know yourself that this can be a warning sign. Quote: You really don't need to explain! Yet the drive to explain and prove wrong the skeptics, dupers and 'athiests' seems to be causing you varying distress for extended periods of time. I feel like we're gonna end up tailchasing over this again. In your other thread you said this: Quote: IMHE this is not a 'normal' reaction to weed and I worry about THC destabilising you and throwing you waaaayyyy off track. Remember all the stuff we spoke about bias-checking too- don't get shackled by fantasy or delusion. I genuinely think you ought to take a step back from your self imposed role as 'messenger' or 'understander of the mystic' because if these ideas are what you THINK they are- then they aren't going anywhere! Mental health, however, can be muchmore fickle. Much love, Solar but come on, PLEASE be careful with this stuff. EDIT: You know my stance on much of this stuff, I'm not trying to come across like a condescending prick- nor am I saying denounce wonder. I just don't want you to fry yourself.
-------------------- 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ Edited by Lithop (07/30/23 12:44 PM)
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Ascended Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 5,401 Last seen: 19 hours, 40 minutes |
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Hey S-shroomster, you might get allot out of listening to Stan Grof... Just a heads up!
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Ascended Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 5,401 Last seen: 19 hours, 40 minutes |
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Stranger Registered: 05/30/21 Posts: 2,875 |
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My point, solarshroomster, is that atheists do experience divine experience... even if they dont call it that and in fact reject the possibility of divine experience, what they experience is the same as what religious people experience, only they might call it a different name. They might call it 'love' or 'joy'. They would reject my term divine experience, but they would accept that they experience moments of clarity and unity, just like you.
I would suggest that you lean a bit more towards empathy. I'm not saying you're not empathetic now at all in your whole life... but in this area, about mysticism, you might benefit from more empathy. Empathy means simply understanding the perspective of another and trying best you can to see it as your own. So to understand the atheist perspective, think of their life. They do not believe in god, or in ultimate reality. So all they can do is live their life. When they do so, live their earthly lives, they put meaning into simple things. Since they think life is all that there is, they want to make it better, increasing the number of beautiful things in the world - a very noble goal from any angle. They sometimes experience the same degree of transcendence experienced by a religious person except it is interpreted differently. They might experience a 'divine experience' under the earlier terminology, except not from god, but from the birth of their child. The emotional experience is the same, the only difference is interpretation. I fear that when you blanket judge atheists in this way, you're doing precisely the same thing done by those who say, 'you must believe x religion!'. You're essentially saying, 'you must believe in god!' But what I'm trying to say is, a person can be just as in touch with the 'divine', however you yourself intrepret it, if they do good things in life and appreciate it. They are just as intouch with the divine, except they call it 'human kindness'. An atheist might use different words to convey the same emotional resonance, the same experience, as a theist might.
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Ascended Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 5,401 Last seen: 19 hours, 40 minutes |
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Grof calls those experiences transpersonal, non ordinary, holotropic...
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Wonderer Registered: 11/01/13 Posts: 506 Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours |
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Quote: I agree as much, but a certain point, if it moves like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Let's go through the checklist: (1) Are there things that are ineffable? Yes (2) Are we part of Reality, as opposed to part of Reality? Yes (3) Is the Universe conscious? Yes (see point #2) (3) Are we interconnected? Yes (4) Do we live inside our mind? Yes (5) Is there a universality to these experiences that impart similar revelations about the nature of existence, world, and Self independent of culturally-induced interpretations? Yes We can safely then say that "God exists". On one hand, it is semantics; but, on the other, it's immature to try to impose another name on something that clearly has been talked about as "God" in the past. Quote: Again, I agree with this sentiment. If we are all one, we need to accept that there are other versions of the Self that have done and continue to do wrong. By the same token though, they should be more empathetic towards me. To be clear, they convinced me that the experiences that I have had recently are just not possible. They fed me so many lies. They kept insisting there was nothing after death, but yet missed the real magic that, if we came from nothingness before, what's to stop it again from happening? At least they could have been humble before this question as opposed to suggesting that it wasn't possible, because the scientific method couldn't prove it one way or the other. They pointed to a world "out there", forcing myself to see myself as a stranger to my own home. They told me to worships the stars "out there" and see the Big Bang as an explosion in space. (The Big Bang is actually the expansion of spacetime itself, so we're all implicitly interconnected and relative towards one another). They told me to worship reason & technology and ignore intuition (or, in other words, things the scientific method can't prove for certain one way or the other). Every time I had a feeling that I was interconnected, they sneered in my face "woo woo"! Quite frankly, they're bullies. And we can make a point about how some religious fundamentalists are bullies too, but that's not what we are discussing here--and, if I'm being honest, that point has been made ad nauseum. Literally, turn a TV and it's all we hear about. Religion is about rules and bullying people! They can't accept evolution! They think there's a man in the sky with a beard! How laughable! In hindsight, their ploy was obvious... lead people astray to throw out the spiritual baby away with the bathwater. -------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Wonderer Registered: 11/01/13 Posts: 506 Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours |
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Quote: I love this post, and, no again, Lithop, you weren't condescending. It's just interesting to me -- you're speaking the truth, and almost all of these responses speak the truth, but I think what people aren't appreciating here is how incredible this stuff actually is. How long have you known about the existence of the mystical domain for? Do you remember the day you discovered it was a real thing? What confirmed it for you? How did it feel like for you that day you discovered it? I'm just a little distraught how this was all so obvious to everyone else but me. I'm 31 years old, but yet I feel like I was kept out of a great secret for some strange reason. Here's an analogy: say there's a potion that grants you the ability to fly. You have always dreamed of flying, but yet no one has ever told you about that potion. Instead, all you've heard is that you don't have wings and can't fly. Imagine how shocking it would be when you discovered this potion! -------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Wonderer Registered: 11/01/13 Posts: 506 Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours |
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Quote: He's great. And I love Grof. Unfortunately, atheists have told me he's "woo woo", so I can't take much of what he says seriously. It's the reality of the situation. I think the lesson learned here is to just think for yourself, and not take what other people say as the "truth". You can find your own truth yourself, through yourself. I have faith, FishOilKid, that you know exactly what I'm talking about! -------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Ascended Registered: 11/14/10 Posts: 5,401 Last seen: 19 hours, 40 minutes |
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I do. Right on!
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Spaghetti Days Registered: 04/09/22 Posts: 764 Loc: 🛸 |
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Quote: I can see a lot of appreciation in the world. ![]() Quote: ![]() I also would have accepted "MYSTICAL DOMAIN? MYSTICAL DOMAIN?!?! YOU AREN'T LOOKIN' AT THE BIGGER PICTURE!" Quote: Others have laid it out through this and the other thread as to why things seem to take the course they do, karmic implications, needing to be at certain points in your life for developmental reasons etc. On the being distraught part- let other peoples dismissal be water under the bridge IMO! And likely it wasn't as obvious to everyone else as you may think ![]() Quote: Yeah, I get you on that one. -------------------- 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿
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Undefined Registered: 05/27/19 Posts: 494 Loc: With the loons Last seen: 8 hours, 56 minutes |
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OP I really like how you've framed this whole issue, being "duped." It makes me think of the common spiritual metaphor of a "veil" covering our eyes and causing us to not see what is always there.
I hear what you're saying about hard skulled atheists/reductionists (and the culture at large) duping us. But what do you think about the idea that deeper down, we are actually duping ourselves, and it is at that level that we can truly reverse the duping? By the way, I believe there is a collective movement going on to reverse the duping, and as it gains momentum, we will eventually reach a tipping point where it is no longer controversial to discuss even in the mainstream media (which will probably no longer exist, anyways). The veil will have been lifted so far that we will take it as a matter of course that we are eternal beings manifesting each moment into creation, of one source. -------------------- "Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet." A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing (With all the accoutrements.)
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Wonderer Registered: 11/01/13 Posts: 506 Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours |
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Quote: Yes, I agree, we are also duping ourselves. I'm of the view that the revelation is ineffable, so when we "return", cognitive dissonance kicks in, and we make up stories to analogize the feeling. My "trip report" above is an example of that--I don't describe it accurately, but I illustrate "around" it. Upon return to this-worldly realm, we forget revelation and spiritual amnesia kicks in. Then we start duping ourselves into thinking that it's all not true. That's where I'm at again. Probably for the better, since it's not mentally healthy to walk around with mystical feelings 24/7. -------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Registered: 01/14/15 Posts: 2,696 Last seen: 21 minutes, 58 seconds |
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I've been thinking recently what is obvious in perspectives, that we fall and temporarily remain that way because we pause our concentration. The body is difficult and cyclic, yet the remembrance tends to converge. Mind was made to be one.
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Spaghetti Days Registered: 04/09/22 Posts: 764 Loc: 🛸 |
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Quote: This made me think of how Dzogchen view posits that there is a primal state of being, or ground. Beginningless and endless- pristine awareness, free from both personal obscuration & conceptual elaboration. Knowledge of this is known as 'Rigpa' AKA the innermost nature of mind. The "problem" is that, simultainously arising is 'dumbfoundedness' or 'ignorance' serving as inability to SEE Rigpa. In turn this obscures the true nature of mind and leads to our Samsaric existence in its myriad forms: inlcuding the way you mention- making up stories to analogise/rationalise a feeling/experience that transcends our intellectual ability to explain it using conventional means. Doing instead of being, very human stuff. The above speaks to why I suggest a more casual relationship with these unknown aspects/experiences if we are to integrate them into daily life, because without proper work on establishing knowledge of the 'base', we may end up stacking all sorts of potentially janky conceptual ideas ontop of one another until something gives way. See also Avidyā -------------------- 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿
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Registered: 01/14/15 Posts: 2,696 Last seen: 21 minutes, 58 seconds |
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Janky!?
![]() Who's scruffy lookin? - Han Solo
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Spaghetti Days Registered: 04/09/22 Posts: 764 Loc: 🛸 |
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Quote: Cranky janky.I hope by "the above" you didn't think I was deeming your post as janky. Although I can see it reading like that. I meant the content of my own post when I said "the above"(I'd walked away to do something while typing, your post wasn't up yet) and by janky I meant taking any manner of esoteric ideas on board without considering and testing their meaning or ability to hold weight -------------------- 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿
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Undefined Registered: 05/27/19 Posts: 494 Loc: With the loons Last seen: 8 hours, 56 minutes |
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Quote: There IS something comforting about consensus reality, isn't there?? Although I like to think that all those analogies and insights we bring back help to shift the collective reality, if ever so slightly, as it continues to evolve through the injection of psychedelic moments. "Behold, I make all things new again!" Said somebody returning from quite a psychedelic experience. -------------------- "Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet." A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing (With all the accoutrements.)
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Undefined Registered: 05/27/19 Posts: 494 Loc: With the loons Last seen: 8 hours, 56 minutes |
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"Remember also that if physical reality is in a larger sense an illusion, it is an illusion caused by a greater reality. The illusion itself has a purpose and a meaning."
-Seth -------------------- "Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet." A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing (With all the accoutrements.)
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Registered: 01/14/15 Posts: 2,696 Last seen: 21 minutes, 58 seconds |
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Quote: lol, I wasn't meaning it referring to that. just playing The conceptual stuff we put around it can be part of the unique creativity and madness we bring, hopefully moving to the more reflective. And as said, the handing it over, at the beginning and end of the day, as much as possible.
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Registered: 01/14/15 Posts: 2,696 Last seen: 21 minutes, 58 seconds |
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But wait, I am handing over my conceptual phenomena to a concept! Yet these reflect and are contained by life.
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Spaghetti Days Registered: 04/09/22 Posts: 764 Loc: 🛸 |
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Quote: ![]() Quote: That's true and an important part life. But it also possible for concepts to become an obscuring influence, therefore a risk to liberation. Quote:
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Registered: 01/14/15 Posts: 2,696 Last seen: 21 minutes, 58 seconds |
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Agreed. I think there is a point where we need not eschew concepts within, and I'm part of the choir around that. We think stuff can pause mind, but they are mind's light. And of course seeing them as such, they will not bind.
Aiming for manolaya or the like serves to end concepts and that is how their nature is seen. Mind is never harmed nor can harm, ever present and vibrant as the teaching goes that we verify. Edited by syncro (08/01/23 08:00 PM)
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Wonderer Registered: 11/01/13 Posts: 506 Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours |
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Quote: This was genius... thank you..! I like the part where you talk about: "I genuinely think you ought to take a step back from your self imposed role as 'messenger' or 'understander of the mystic' because if these ideas are what you THINK they are- then they aren't going anywhere! " You then go on, above: "I feel like we're gonna end up tailchasing over this again. In your other thread you said this:" Or, like this - "My point being, stop pushing so hard on this that you break yourself. I promise you will give in before 'reality' does, don't turn these ideas that gave you such a sense of relief and freedom into another thought prison for yourself." *** Thank you.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Spaghetti Days Registered: 04/09/22 Posts: 764 Loc: 🛸 |
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Quote: Just sharing thoughts. You're more than welcome bro.
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Wonderer Registered: 11/01/13 Posts: 506 Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours |
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I really do appreciate it, especially where you say "don't turn these ideas that gave you such a sense of relief and freedom into another thought prison for yourself". I can tell you're speaking from a lot of wisdom there. (I'm not being sarcastic, I really mean that literally).
If you allow me, I do have perhaps one minor gripe at this point. What are we to make out of attacks on something that we know to be real and genuine, like the experience of the mystical world? Consider for instance this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T Many of us on this forum know how valuable & legitimate the discipline of "transpersonal psychology" is. Its creation was partially led by the psychologist Abraham Maslow (who you may know more for "Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs") and popularized more by psychedelic psychiatrist Stansilov Grof. When Maslow and Slof pioneered this field of study, they weren't doing it for "fun" or "shits & giggles"; they were doing something that clearly reflected what they found were evident in their studies. And, as as has already been explicitly revealed in this thread, Grof's work has been of immense benefit to FishOilTheKid and other people have gone through or going through spiritual emergencies, myself included. All of this is a long way to say that "Transpersonal psychology" is a legitimate field of study for a lot of us that provides meaning and understanding, a source of "truth". Then, why, exactly is there a big label on the top by the Wikipedia editors to "Transpersonal Psychology" that reads: "This article may present fringe theories, without giving appropriate weight to the mainstream view, and explaining the responses to the fringe theories"... Digging a little further into the "Talk" tab of this Wikipedia article (where Wikipedia editors go to discuss their edits), it reads this: "It is now suggested by Wikipedia-editors that Transpersonal psychology is a fringe-discipline... However, if Transpersonal psychology is now going to be conceptualized and elucidated as a fringe discipline in the mind of the public, which I understand is the consensus of the mid-january revisions, then it would be preferable that this categorization was supported by more sources than the few already in place." I also see that, for no some odd coincidence, it's also tagged as "Skepticism article" and dumped in with "Alternative medicine" articles. ** What I'm saying is this: Yes, you are noble for taking the high road here, but it's important to also call out where we were misled. And, in my sense, there's even a little bit of duty to clear things up so other people don't fall victim to the same things I fell for. Clearly, there is a very strong effort by pseudo-skeptic community (I don't call them skeptics) to frame anything that has so much as the semblance of spirituality to it as delusional. After all, how can we take "Transpersonal psychology" seriously if it's "fringe"! And, my goodness, worse yet -- it's alternative medicine "woo woo". How silly of them! They tell us to throw out the modern medicine prescriptions and snort some bamboo to make our cancer go away, now these same people are telling us that "transpersonal psychology" is legitimate? Give me a break! But this isn't just about "transpersonal psychiatry" (you'll see the "Skepticism" article tagged on everything from "near-death experiences" to "shamanism"... there's an active community at work here). This is a full scale disinformation, delegitimization campaign. I was a personal casualty of this black/white way of thinking and fell down the rabbit hole of overly rigid, linear "rationalistic" thinking before I found my way out. I'm somewhat sympathetic towards these pseudo-skeptics, but when they go too far, it's worth making the same point Albert Einstein made: Quote: ** All of this is to say, yes, even though I see (and agree with the sentiment behind) your and others' points here, there still, in my view, need to be some educational realignment in terms of what is being conveyed to the public (don't even get me started on Astronomy & the Big Bang!). Because if you don't speak up, no one's going to hear your points. I admire the lonely humility in being silent, but I also admire passion for experience. The key is finding the right balance. -------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality." Edited by solarshroomster (08/05/23 09:15 AM)
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Spaghetti Days Registered: 04/09/22 Posts: 764 Loc: 🛸 |
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Quote: I got it from a fortune cookie like 82% of my posts. ![]() The point you're making comes across clearly- we're just opposed on the urgency of these sort of ideas being shared and what weight who all thinks what is or is not real carries. I'm happy for everyone to try and find their beliefs in the world but I can't be bothered/ don't feel I have the right to direct them to what I reckon it might be, in that way I don't feel the same "little bit of duty" toward "educational realignment". It's just personal. I only mean to warn of not being so focused on legitimising your percieved truth to other people that you: A.) Can't enjoy the fruits of learning those things for yourself. or B.)Get burnt out from other peoples resistance to your ideas. ![]() ![]() :edit: You're right to say "The key is finding the right balance." -------------------- 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ Edited by Lithop (08/05/23 03:50 PM)
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Wonderer Registered: 11/01/13 Posts: 506 Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours |
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Quote: Thanks again, I always get a lot from your posts. Quote: Thank you again... I find your posts very helpful. -------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality." Edited by solarshroomster (08/05/23 08:00 PM)
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Spaghetti Days Registered: 04/09/22 Posts: 764 Loc: 🛸 |
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It's all good mate!
I enjoy your posts and talking with you too -------------------- 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿
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Wonderer Registered: 11/01/13 Posts: 506 Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours |
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Okay, I really need some help here. I don't understand how I was so duped into believing these things were fake? What do I do to move forward?
Like, I can't get over how I was so hypnotized into not believing it before? And, why, now does it "all of the sudden" make "so much sense"? I like what Lithop said about actually using the hammer, as opposed to just worshipping it. I feel though like worshipping original revelation might be the best thing, at the same time... so I don't know. Maybe, I should be grateful that I'm so unable to move on and just accept the revelation of the existence of the mystical for what it is. -------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Registered: 01/14/15 Posts: 2,696 Last seen: 21 minutes, 58 seconds |
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I don't see how you are not moving on. Like I said, I think you are leading. I understand though, it may be still on the mind.
The hypnotism is universal, or to blame persons would be in the symptoms. Ego is a symptom of creative forces more subtle, if useful to see that way.
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Undefined Registered: 05/27/19 Posts: 494 Loc: With the loons Last seen: 8 hours, 56 minutes |
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Quote: Sounds like you are in the midst of a lengthy integration phase, following revelation. The struggle you are experiencing might be a way in which the revelation is broken down, digested, and distributed throughout your being in a way that it can then have practical consequences. The desire for understanding will surely bring more insights your way. Seek and you will find, ask and you will receive... I find some value in the Hindu idea of Lila, the divine game of hide and seek. Maybe we dupe ourselves so as to hide from ourselves, deep in the world of matter and illusion, so that when we do find ourselves it is so delightful. -------------------- "Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet." A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing (With all the accoutrements.)
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Cranky janky.



