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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28408475 - 07/25/23 08:20 PM (6 months, 1 hour ago)

Originally Graham addressed a Ukranian brigade who were fighting Russian supported separatists and said, 

Quote:

“I admire the fact that you will fight for your homeland,” Graham told Ukraine’s 36th Separate Marine Brigade in the town of Shyrokyne, about four kilometers from the line of contact, according to a video released Monday by the Ukrainian presidency.

“Your fight is our fight,” Graham said during the visit on Saturday alongside President Petro Poroshenko. “2017 will be the year of offense,” he continued. “All of us will go back to Washington and we will push the case against Russia. Enough of a Russian aggression. It is time for them to pay a heavier price. Our fight is not with the Russian people but with Putin. Our promise to you is to take your cause to Washington, inform the American people of your bravery and make the case against Putin to the world.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/us-senators-praise-ukrainian-marines-slam-vladimir-putin-russia-john-mccain-lindsey-graham/amp/




And then 6 months later he voted for Sanctions against Russia. That is an example of pushing a political case. 

Quote:

WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) today made this statement on the Senate passing an amendment Graham sponsored to increase sanctions on Russia. The vote in the Senate was 97-2.

“I’m very pleased that we could reach a bipartisan agreement to punish Russia for interfering in our election. 

“Today’s sanctions vote serves as a punch to the nose to Putin and his cronies in Russia.  It reinforces the fact that we will not stand by and allow them to interfere in our affairs without facing repercussions.    

“While I do not believe Russian interference changed the outcome of the election, there is no doubt their computer hacking and cyber interference created chaos. 

“Finally, combining Iran and Russia sanctions will send the right signal at the right time to both regimes who are wreaking havoc throughout the world.” 

The amendment adopted today imposes comprehensive sanctions on Russia for its cyber intrusions, aggression, and destabilizing activities in the United States and around the world. It also incorporates legislation Graham supported that would require congressional oversight of any decision to ease sanctions on Russia.

https://www.lgraham.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2017/6/graham-russia-sanctions-deliver-clear-message-to-putin




Graham saying he will fight for Ukranians and push the case against Russia back in Washington. The Ukranians were already fighting separatists.

Lindseys words didn't change anything, and if you're going to claim so you need to cite actual evidence.

This is supposed to be a place for things that aren't blatant conspiracies and here you are trying to make them.

You've already given up on the proven false claim you made of documents that weren't secret and didn't indicate an invasion.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: sudly]
    #28408495 - 07/25/23 08:50 PM (6 months, 1 hour ago)

I'm not sure what you see as the 'conspiracy'.  It seems clear to me that Lindsey Graham was rallying up the Ukrainian troops for war; you seem to think he wanted them to fight Russia politically.

Yes, Ukrainians were killing separatists.  They weren't happy that Southeastern Ukraine didn't go along with their coup.

And no, I haven't given up on my 'proven false claim' that the documents weren't secret.  The document in the video says "Secret" in Ukrainian in the upper right (highlighted in pink).


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28408501 - 07/25/23 09:01 PM (6 months, 1 hour ago)

You need to be clear on what you're insinuating Lidnsey Graham did. What change he led to. Do you think he incited violence, changed the course of warfare between Ukraine and separatists, or that his words did anything on the ground that wasn't already happening?

He said your fight is our fight, we'll push the case against Russia in Washington, 6 months later he signed a bill to sanction Russia. 

What does Tacmbo mean then? The pink highlighted bit.

Secret in Ukranian is секрет.

You've given up on calling it an invasion plan, because it wasn't, it was a annual training event..


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: sudly]
    #28408510 - 07/25/23 09:07 PM (6 months, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
You need to be clear on what you're insinuating Lidnsey Graham did. What change he led to. Do you think he incited violence, changed the course of warfare between Ukraine and separatists, or that his words did anything on the ground that wasn't already happening?



I think he let the Ukrainian military know they will have US support if they try to retake Donbas.

Quote:

sudly said:
What does Tacmbo mean then? The pink highlighted bit.



It means "secret".  Google translate says "secretly".


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28408522 - 07/25/23 09:16 PM (6 months, 52 minutes ago)

Good thing.  I'm glad they knew they'd have our support.  Hopefully, they can kill as many Russian invaders as they need to in order to get Russia to stop this brutal and unjust war.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28408593 - 07/25/23 10:15 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

sudly said:
You need to be clear on what you're insinuating Lidnsey Graham did. What change he led to. Do you think he incited violence, changed the course of warfare between Ukraine and separatists, or that his words did anything on the ground that wasn't already happening?



I think he let the Ukrainian military know they will have US support if they try to retake Donbas.

Quote:

sudly said:
What does Tacmbo mean then? The pink highlighted bit.



It means "secret".  Google translate says "secretly".




Okay, at least you said that's what you think. Having US support is very broad and doesn't specify anything. They were already trying to retake the territory..

Do you know when the US sent its first military support, weapons etc, to Ukraine?

Quote:

Provision of Defense Equipment
After Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014, the Obama
Administration provided Ukraine nonlethal security
assistance. In 2017, the Trump Administration announced
U.S. readiness to provide lethal weapons to Ukraine.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12040&ved=2ahUKEwjIy5qswquAAxWml1YBHalRA7sQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw21gzEFyKza3WST_P7cD9pL




I'm not sure that 'secretly' is a classification. It doesn't appear to have been a secret, an invasion plan, or related to Donbas. But an annual training gathering in Lyviv.


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Edited by sudly (07/25/23 10:29 PM)


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OfflineJoh.Ke
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Enlil]
    #28419146 - 08/03/23 06:05 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
There is no hoax.  The Russians did interfere with the election.  Trump did specifically ask them to.  The former was made clear by the Mueller report, which you love to cite as a source.  The latter was done on national television.





So why isn't Trump in jail?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Joh.Ke]
    #28419168 - 08/03/23 06:21 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

For what, exactly?


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OfflineJoh.Ke
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Enlil]
    #28419178 - 08/03/23 06:28 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
For what, exactly?




For asking Russia to interfere.  Sounds like it should be a crime.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Joh.Ke]
    #28419204 - 08/03/23 06:42 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Should be


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OfflineJoh.Ke
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: koods]
    #28419214 - 08/03/23 06:49 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Should be



Not sure what you are trying to say.

Is asking Russia to interfere in the election a crime or not?  If yes, then Trump should go to jail.  And if he didn't go to jail for it, then it means he isn't guilty of the crime.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Joh.Ke]
    #28419220 - 08/03/23 06:55 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

That would be a messy first amendment case


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Joh.Ke]
    #28419227 - 08/03/23 07:06 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Joh.Ke said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
For what, exactly?




For asking Russia to interfere.  Sounds like it should be a crime.



You should lobby congress to make it a crime.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Joh.Ke]
    #28419229 - 08/03/23 07:08 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Joh.Ke said:
Quote:

koods said:
Should be



Not sure what you are trying to say.

Is asking Russia to interfere in the election a crime or not?  If yes, then Trump should go to jail.  And if he didn't go to jail for it, then it means he isn't guilty of the crime.



Yeah, just like OJ didn't kill Nicole.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Joh.Ke]
    #28419235 - 08/03/23 07:11 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Joh.Ke said:
Quote:

koods said:
Should be



Not sure what you are trying to say.

Is asking Russia to interfere in the election a crime or not?  If yes, then Trump should go to jail.  And if he didn't go to jail for it, then it means he isn't guilty of the crime.




The government chooses not to prosecute all the time. Especially when the defendant is the president and is immune from prosecution.

It’s pretty clear that if trump had lost the election he would have been prosecuted for a number of things.


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OfflineJoh.Ke
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Enlil]
    #28419248 - 08/03/23 07:23 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Joh.Ke said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
For what, exactly?




For asking Russia to interfere.  Sounds like it should be a crime.



You should lobby congress to make it a crime.



Holy shit!  Asking a foreign country to interfere in an election is not a crime in your country?


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OfflineJoh.Ke
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28419251 - 08/03/23 07:24 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Joh.Ke said:
Quote:

koods said:
Should be



Not sure what you are trying to say.

Is asking Russia to interfere in the election a crime or not?  If yes, then Trump should go to jail.  And if he didn't go to jail for it, then it means he isn't guilty of the crime.



Yeah, just like OJ didn't kill Nicole.



If Trump truly is guilty, and it's proven on such a grand scale, how come he hasn't lost all credibility?


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OfflineJoh.Ke
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: koods]
    #28419259 - 08/03/23 07:28 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Joh.Ke said:
Quote:

koods said:
Should be



Not sure what you are trying to say.

Is asking Russia to interfere in the election a crime or not?  If yes, then Trump should go to jail.  And if he didn't go to jail for it, then it means he isn't guilty of the crime.




The government chooses not to prosecute all the time. Especially when the defendant is the president and is immune from prosecution.




That doesn't seem right.  Anybody who broke the law should face punishment.  Doesn't matter if he is a regular Joe or the Potus.


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Joh.Ke] * 1
    #28419268 - 08/03/23 07:30 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Joh.Ke said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Joh.Ke said:
Quote:

koods said:
Should be



Not sure what you are trying to say.

Is asking Russia to interfere in the election a crime or not?  If yes, then Trump should go to jail.  And if he didn't go to jail for it, then it means he isn't guilty of the crime.



Yeah, just like OJ didn't kill Nicole.



If Trump truly is guilty, and it's proven on such a grand scale, how come he hasn't lost all credibility?




Because if you take a person of average intelligence, around half the people are dumber than that person


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Offlinegww
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Joh.Ke]
    #28419277 - 08/03/23 07:35 PM (5 months, 22 days ago)

Why does putin have oligarchs and do they care about what the populace might vote for?  Why do kids believe in the Easter bunny?  I would say he lost credibility, he only got one term.  Justice is slow but that might be coming as well and we will see how your contention holds up as in america it will be 12 citizens like me that get to decide that.  Just like other citizens like me were on a grand jury and decided he needed to be charged.  There will always be a few crazies that will love him like some people love serial killers and marry them in jail.  But you really know why before you ask, right?
Cheers
gww


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