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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28403850 - 07/22/23 12:31 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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koods said: People like trump are the reason why people hate the US. If we end up electing that moral degenerate and buffoon to office again, the standing of this country in the eyes of the world is going to be shattered.
People hate the US because Trump wants to be more friendly with other countries of the world? I'd love to see your evidence for that.
I never said that at all. Jesus Christ you are incapable of not misrepresenting what other people say. The rest of the world will think much worse of this country if we re-elect a man most people consider totally unfit to be president of the United States - and someone who is facing multiple criminal indictments.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (07/22/23 12:33 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28403852 - 07/22/23 12:38 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Enlil said: Even after the three-year investigation, you still don't believe Russia interfered with the election because RT told you otherwise.
No Enlil. After a three-year investigation I still don't believe there were any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump with respect to interference in the 2016 presidential election because they couldn't find any evidence of it, and you can't point anything out except something Trump already said on national TV.
That's not what I asked, though. As Koods pointed out, you should try to address statements and claims ACTUALLY MADE instead of ones you make up.
And link my ad hominem attack, please.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: koods]
#28403887 - 07/22/23 01:12 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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koods said: Russia stole emails from democrats and then weaponized them to help Donald Trump get elected.
Even if it were true that Russia stole the emails (which is doubtful), how were they "weaponized to help Donald Trump get elected"?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28403888 - 07/22/23 01:15 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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You don’t think the leaked emails hurt the Clinton campaign?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Enlil] 1
#28403907 - 07/22/23 01:31 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Enlil said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Enlil said: Even after the three-year investigation, you still don't believe Russia interfered with the election because RT told you otherwise.
No Enlil. After a three-year investigation I still don't believe there were any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump with respect to interference in the 2016 presidential election because they couldn't find any evidence of it, and you can't point anything out except something Trump already said on national TV.
That's not what I asked, though. As Koods pointed out, you should try to address statements and claims ACTUALLY MADE instead of ones you make up.
I started this with "Russia-Gate was a hoax to try and keep Trump out of office." As you know, Russia-Gate was about the government's attempt to find any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump with respect to interference in the 2016 presidential election, which we learned was a made up allegation by the Clinton campaign.
If you changed the topic on me, because I was right, then that's great!
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Enlil said: And link my ad hominem attack, please.
Here:
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Enlil said: ...you still don't believe Russia interfered with the election because RT told you otherwise.
No Enlil, RT didn't tell me that. American media did. When can't argue my points, you go for make believe ad hominem attacks.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: koods] 1
#28403908 - 07/22/23 01:32 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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koods said: You don’t think the leaked emails hurt the Clinton campaign?
How do you think they did? If Russia even had them, did they ever turn them over to Trump?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#28403913 - 07/22/23 01:40 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Enlil said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Enlil said: Even after the three-year investigation, you still don't believe Russia interfered with the election because RT told you otherwise.
No Enlil. After a three-year investigation I still don't believe there were any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump with respect to interference in the 2016 presidential election because they couldn't find any evidence of it, and you can't point anything out except something Trump already said on national TV.
That's not what I asked, though. As Koods pointed out, you should try to address statements and claims ACTUALLY MADE instead of ones you make up.
I started this with "Russia-Gate was a hoax to try and keep Trump out of office." As you know, Russia-Gate was about the government's attempt to find any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump with respect to interference in the 2016 presidential election, which we learned was a made up allegation by the Clinton campaign.
If you changed the topic on me, because I was right, then that's great!
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Enlil said: And link my ad hominem attack, please.
Here:
Quote:
Enlil said: ...you still don't believe Russia interfered with the election because RT told you otherwise.
No Enlil, RT didn't tell me that. American media did. When can't argue my points, you go for make believe ad hominem attacks.
You really should look up the meaning of terms before you use them. That's neither an ad hominem nor an attack. In contrast, Stable Genius was banned (for a few hours) for calling a member of this site a "pathetic egotistical conceited fool." If you're paying attention, I'm sure you'll figure out the difference.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28403955 - 07/22/23 02:04 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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koods said: You don’t think the leaked emails hurt the Clinton campaign?
How do you think they did? If Russia even had them, did they ever turn them over to Trump?
I’m not even going to waste my time looking because I’m 100% sure you thought the leaks were devastating to the Clinton campaign and democrats in general at the time.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: koods]
#28403957 - 07/22/23 02:05 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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And you'd be 100% wrong. 
Nice dodge of my question though!
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,789
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28403973 - 07/22/23 02:13 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Enlil said: Even after the three-year investigation, you still don't believe Russia interfered with the election because RT told you otherwise.
No Enlil. After a three-year investigation I still don't believe there were any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump with respect to interference in the 2016 presidential election because they couldn't find any evidence of it, and you can't point anything out except something Trump already said on national TV.
I was one of the few who knew this was a hoax before the election even started, all you can do is hurl insults. You should be banned for ad hominem attacks, like Stable Genius is now banned again.
I think Fal knows Russia meddled in the election with generic political propaganda and hacking etc.
So it's yes to Russia interfered in the election.
Trump had several associates arrested who he pardoned, but that he or specifically his campaign were colluding wasn't concluded.
That said, there's no reason for Trump to be involved himself. Russia has done it before and was going to do it again. I mean troll farms and hack still to come in 2024.
The investigation doesn't come off as a hoax to me, just an accusation that indicated wrongdoing on Russia's part, and many obstruction attempts from Trump associates, but not specifically a link between Russia's wrong doing and the T campaign.
Maybe the obstruction worked, trump did pardon those who fell to charges on it. If his associates didn't obstruct would it have been a different story? Well, that's purely speculation and unfortunately not a productive path to go down.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28403977 - 07/22/23 02:16 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: And you'd be 100% wrong. 
Nice dodge of my question though!
You're right on this. By the time of the email scandal, you were a full-fledged trump supporter.
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gww
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Enlil]
#28403978 - 07/22/23 02:16 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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FW You keep saying mueller cleared trump by not finding proof and that leaves out all the obstruction of justice which stopped any effort to get at the truth and so mueller pointed out he could not say trump was innocent of collusion and would if he could.
You keep taking one thing and wanting to address it in a vacuum by it's self and doing your best not to let other incidents added with them and see what it adds up to.
Trump defense did exactly the same thing during his second impeachment by trying to keep everything that happened out and alleging the only thing that mattered was one sentence in a speech. Even the republican senators did not buy that and founded their vote on him already being out of office by their own mouth at closing.
The American people are not so dumb to have not seen it all (which are facts) and not being able to use common sense to connect the dots would not make sense to most. If there is no smoking gun that shows a tape of trump saying he was colluding as far as voting is concerned, that fact would not change that it can be assessed by what did happen still causes out comes that are bad for us. They can connect the dots. It would be no difference in a trial for hit and run. The jury will be shown the know facts and if they can not get a confession from the person that he swerved his car and hit somebody on purpose, it will still be a fact somebody is dead and he was involved and the jury may say manslaughter instead of murder. Reason, because we still don't want people to die through the actions of others. Trumps actions, around what others did, shows outcome, he admits outcome by siding with Russia and outcome is bad in this case and should be countered with whatever power the American people do hold.
You can not take every little thing and make some excuse for it or even misrepresent it, like saying the mueller report exonerated trump, and make that the whole ball game. Other people lived through it as well and know better. Cheers gww
Edited by gww (07/22/23 03:03 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: gww] 2
#28403979 - 07/22/23 02:18 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
gww said:
You can not take every little thing and make some excuse for it or even misrepresent it
Do not underestimate his misrepresentation skills. He absolutely can take every little thing and make some excuse for it/misrepresent it.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,789
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: koods] 2
#28403991 - 07/22/23 02:28 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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koods said: People like trump are the reason why people hate the US. If we end up electing that moral degenerate and buffoon to office again, the standing of this country in the eyes of the world is going to be shattered.
People hate the US because Trump wants to be more friendly with other countries of the world? I'd love to see your evidence for that.
This is a great example of a straw man and provides a good case study for the phenomena.
Fal is using a straw man argument to respond to Koods comment. A straw man argument involves misrepresenting or exaggerating an opponent's position to make it easier to attack.
Instead of directly addressing Koods original argument that people like Trump are the reason for the US's negative perception, Fal distorts the statement, claiming that people hate the US because Trump wants to be more friendly with other countries.
This misrepresentation allows Fal to focus on a narrow and irrelevant aspect of the discussion, avoiding the central point made by Koods about Trumps character and behavior being the cause of the US's negative image.
Additionally, Koods statement was expressing an opinion rather than making a specific factual claim, making Fals demand for evidence irrelevant in this context.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Enlil]
#28404010 - 07/22/23 02:43 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Enlil said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: And you'd be 100% wrong. 
Nice dodge of my question though!
You're right on this.
Thank you.
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Enlil said: By the time of the email scandal, you were a full-fledged trump supporter.
I've never been much of a Trump supporter. But I do think he's better than Biden.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: gww]
#28404055 - 07/22/23 03:06 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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gww said: FW You keep saying mueller cleared trump by not finding proof and that leaves out all the obstruction of justice which stopped any effort to get at the truth
How did it stop any effort? Or is that just copium?
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gww said: You keep taking one thing and wanting to address it in a vacuum by it's self and doing your best not to let other incidents added with them and see what it adds up to.
No, I welcome other incidents. But no one has anything to share. Just basically "trust me Fal, there's more out there, trust me! Except there's nothing to share because... obstruction of justice!"
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gww said: The American people are not so dumb to have not seen it all (which are facts) and not being able to use common sense to connect the dots would not make sense to most. If there is no smoking gun that shows a tape of trump saying he was colluding as far as voting is concerned, that fact would not change that it can be assessed by what did happen still causes out comes that are bad for us. They can connect the dots.
Holy copium batman! Can you connect the dots for me? 
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gww said: You can not take every little thing and make some excuse for it or even misrepresent it, like saying the mueller report exonerated trump, and make that the whole ball game.
But that's not the whole ball game. I've shown evidence in my first post above that this whole story was created by the Clinton campaign.
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gww said: Other people lived through it as well and know better.
No, other people just don't like to be wrong, and they don't know better, they're just taking some serious copium.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Enlil]
#28404057 - 07/22/23 03:06 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
gww said:
You can not take every little thing and make some excuse for it or even misrepresent it
Do not underestimate his misrepresentation skills. He absolutely can take every little thing and make some excuse for it/misrepresent it.
What am I misrepresenting?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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christopera
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28404063 - 07/22/23 03:10 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Your confirmation bias knows no limit. You just haven't accepted that yet.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28404065 - 07/22/23 03:11 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Oh so much. In this thread alone, you completely misrepresented Koods' claim.
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budmanman
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Re: Definitely not Russian propaganda or conspiracy theories [Re: Enlil]
#28404071 - 07/22/23 03:15 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: There is no hoax. The Russians did interfere with the election. Trump did specifically ask them to. The former was made clear by the Mueller report, which you love to cite as a source. The latter was done on national television.
That is right, Russia did interfere with the election. They posted memes online, huge interference.

This is why Trump won.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-trolls-didnt-need-millions-to-sow-chaos-they-had-jesus?ref=scroll
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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