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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Inversion contemplation 2
#28401584 - 07/20/23 09:02 AM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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As opposed to "planning for success". I've read it has it's roots in Stoicism, the idea being to confront various failure possibilities to A- avoid them and B- better deal with them if they arise.
Does anyone see merit in such thought?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz] 1
#28401595 - 07/20/23 09:22 AM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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Spending time considering what can go wrong is a skill for advanced meditators who have access to relaxing mental contents. Without this skill, the effects of PTSD will set in quickly.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
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Pre traumatic stress disorder?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz] 1
#28401665 - 07/20/23 10:59 AM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quite funny - but it is an interesting approach.
The whole idea of talk therapy, as I understand it, is to establish a rapport in a safe relaxing space, where the client's mind can free associate, and observe perception during an exploration accompanied by the therapist guide, who manages a sustained non-threatening tone and enviromnent.
An advanced meditator, becomes his/her own therapist by finding and following the breath while relaxing and observing mental contents.
While observing mental contents both the arising and the fading of all mental contents can become apparent, including the arising and fading of finding the breath and following it as it flows in and out. The effort of doing so establishes a safe "MENTAL SPACE" which is a changing amphitheater that is shaped to fit the changing contents of the mind.
I note that I do not sustain the same mental form of finding and following the breath for longer than 3 minutes, and when I begin again, which I try to do anyway every minute or so, and sometimes with each breath, the mental shape and feeling is different. (I attribute this to the exhaustion of recently activated neurons) But also I find that as time goes on in the session (~40 mins), it becomes easier to begin again. (I attribute this to the short term memory property of recently activated neurons to be more easily re-activated by fewer active axon branchlets, than would be required to reactivate fully resting neurons).
In any case, I would say that questions arise about my day or my life or someones' life, and these interrupt my efforts at one pointedness, and as such these mental contents also arise and fade away and I am aware of them without losing the calm base that has been established. In this way the meditation that I do do normally is somewhat similar to your inversion contemplation, although it lacks a formal structure.
I am not sure what kind of formal structure would be good in order to establish the calm finding and following of the breath, and select for an interruption that fits the category of your inversion objective. Probably what I am doing would just go that way if I had matters pressing in life that were "inverted".
A such, probably, you should just go for contemplation and let any inversion happen naturally, as it would do anyway.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
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Shoulds aside I do just observe content unless there's a pressing matter or concern.
It was just an interesting idea I read about, thought I would share. Many similarities between the (ancient) West and the (ancient?) East.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
#28401693 - 07/20/23 11:44 AM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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are you calling me ancient! I'm just beginning!
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
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You've been here almost 20 years. That's pretty ancient!
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
#28401808 - 07/20/23 02:04 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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Yer a couple of brass tacks foi coitan.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
#28401858 - 07/20/23 02:57 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: You've been here almost 20 years. That's pretty ancient!
yeah but I had no clue, then and I barely seem to be catching on now.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
#28402380 - 07/21/23 12:25 AM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: As opposed to "planning for success". I've read it has it's roots in Stoicism, the idea being to confront various failure possibilities to A- avoid them and B- better deal with them if they arise.
Does anyone see merit in such thought?
Yes, but it's hard not to look at a worst case scenario and kind of take it to heart sometimes, like talking to a new date and wondering if they're still interested after the first date, or wondering why they might have or might have not responded in a certain way.
Usually the arbiters of change are pretty novel, understandable and not what I was originally thinking and I try to look at more than one possibilities for 'failure', or to think there are usually less negative reasons for plans changing.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Tropism
ChasingTail


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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz] 1
#28402388 - 07/21/23 01:26 AM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: As opposed to "planning for success". I've read it has it's roots in Stoicism, the idea being to confront various failure possibilities to A- avoid them and B- better deal with them if they arise.
Does anyone see merit in such thought?
Analyzing possible outcomes before we act is one our key abilities, as long as we don't get paralysis looking into the possibilities we are good.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Tropism] 2
#28402390 - 07/21/23 01:30 AM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Catastrophising seems to be an issue worth addressing imo.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi


Registered: 08/16/16
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: Spending time considering what can go wrong is a skill for advanced meditators who have access to relaxing mental contents. Without this skill, the effects of PTSD will set in quickly.
^ In that respect, cultivating a meditative foundation that includes training to be skilled at entering and exiting at least some of the Jhanas is a potentially good move, imho&e, particularly useful thanks to certain related positive side efx.
It's spoken of in some sutta readings found scattered throughout the Tripitaka, partly like something along the lines of 'a necessary prescription of sorts for monks / meditators with certain dispositions and whatnot'.
Also, usually in the context of following dharmic practice, and touted like a fortifying psy-medicinal remedy which can allow for an appropriate degree of wellbeing, combined with equanimity, & heightened awareness - when needing to pass through some challenging obstacle, hence their giving the right stuff needed for one's 'set' for smooth sailing towards insight while navigating troubled waters.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Rahz
Alive Again



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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: sudly] 2
#28402515 - 07/21/23 05:45 AM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Yes, but it's hard not to look at a worst case scenario and kind of take it to heart sometimes, like talking to a new date and wondering if they're still interested after the first date, or wondering why they might have or might have not responded in a certain way.
Usually the arbiters of change are pretty novel, understandable and not what I was originally thinking and I try to look at more than one possibilities for 'failure', or to think there are usually less negative reasons for plans changing.

“We are more often frightened than hurt; and we suffer more in imagination than in reality.” – Seneca
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
#28406709 - 07/24/23 04:31 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
As opposed to "planning for success". I've read it has it's roots in Stoicism, the idea being to confront various failure possibilities to A- avoid them and B- better deal with them if they arise.
Does anyone see merit in such thought?
In some respects, this reminds me of "risk assessment" where one attempts to identify potential hazards and the corresponding effects and make plans accordingly. The goal is not necessarily to eliminate all risks, but to weigh the risks and make improvements to reduce risks. Some activities might be avoided if the risk is deemed too high. Risk assessment is usually tied to actions, procedures, and equipment that minimize harm.
Regarding being better able to "deal with failure possibilities", I've come to see self-help and therapy as a means to problem solving. Certain "failure possibilities" and unexpected events are often problems to be solved, and the more prepared we are, the better they can be addressed. Considering the stats, I guess nobody should be shocked if their marriage ends in divorce.
I understand and appreciate the opinion that there are no actual "problems" to be solved. But if you are in a violent abusive relationship, or contemplating suicide, those are indeed problems to be solved. If you compulsively harm yourself or weigh 600 pounds, it's wise to view that as a problem to be solved.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi


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Maybe with respect to an equation? Sure.  If regarded outside of mathematics or grammatical correctness (eg. wrt > S.W.E.), 'problems' & even 'mistakes' for that matter, idk rly. < Mehh!
The things we often deem to be a problem or a mistake usually isn't in and of itself ever actually either of those two things, so imho&e, it seem largely a matter of perspective.
However, if you're talking about difficulties, challenges, & quagmires - then sure, no doubt about it.
Phenomenon, features, aspects, facets, and dimensions to be unearthed, explored, discovered; or, faculties, characteristics, & attributes to be learned of, also, predictable yet suddenly occurring emergency dilemmas to either panic over -or- to remain chill about and alert to. < Yeahh!
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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RJ Tubs 202



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Yes, I'd referring to difficulties and challenges. Not the ones involved in rebuilding a transmission - the ones that fuel suffering and misery. "Risk assessment" is used in industry and is usually tied to personal safety and quality control. It's a stretch to view it in terms of being human, but I find it interesting to ponder. It can go far beyond choosing to wear a condom.
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Moses_Davidson
Non-Prophet



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When we worry about the horrible monster under the bed, it can be comforting to turn on the light. Sometimes contemplation of the worst-case-scenario can bring great comfort as we learn that it really isn't that bad.
I think this realization is the lance that drains the boil of Pre Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Some people die a thousand deaths of worry.
-------------------- "In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill "The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose." J.B.S. Haldane "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." Mark Twain
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Normally one worry just segues way to the next, as people adopt defensive worrying postures and thought loops. This is not therapeutic, this is obsessive and a generally dysphoric habit. "but what if...?"
as a contemplation, one establishes calmness, or tranquility without inverting anything. then when enough calmness and clarity of mind is set up, one can unpack one problem and view it in a detached and calm way.
let it go no further than that
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
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Loss can lead to appreciation that was absent before. I think ones ability to love in a more genuine and less needy way can develop when one understands that everything life gives is temporary.
Good end point for such contemplations depending on what the subject matter is.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Moses_Davidson
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
#28410955 - 07/27/23 09:44 PM (5 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: I think ones ability to love in a more genuine and less needy way can develop when one understands that everything life gives is temporary.
Ahhh... now that is quite a good point about loss. Bravo. Fireplace and pipe pondering material, there, that is.
Is Rahz short for something? Is there a story behind your moniker?
-------------------- "In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill "The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose." J.B.S. Haldane "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." Mark Twain
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redgreenvines
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
#28411229 - 07/28/23 04:46 AM (5 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Loss can lead to appreciation that was absent before. I think ones ability to love in a more genuine and less needy way can develop when one understands that everything life gives is temporary.
Good end point for such contemplations depending on what the subject matter is.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
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Quote:
Is Rahz short for something? Is there a story behind your moniker?
Short for Rahzahm, sounds like Shazam, was my DnD wizard name lol. I have a friend who's last name is Zahm.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
#28412876 - 07/29/23 12:55 PM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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You and Zahm we're close? Enquiring minds want to know.
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Rahz
Alive Again



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He's a good friend. Couple years younger so we didn't hang out in high school but we were drinking/smoking buddies and tennis partners in my 20s. He got married and has moved about an hour from me to the big city. He is a tier 2 IT technician for a major county and has two kids so we don't see each other that often but we still talk on the phone a couple times a month.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
#28412931 - 07/29/23 01:46 PM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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Your kids visit his?
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Rahz
Alive Again



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I have no kids.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
#28412982 - 07/29/23 03:09 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Okay, so you're like a godfather?
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Rahz
Alive Again



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Not a godfather either. I just brought up kids as the reason we don't hang out more often. I still drive to his place occasionally and we'll get some eats and hang out.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
#28413050 - 07/29/23 04:34 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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but you have a dog and a truck, so you don't need kids or a wife as such.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
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No dog. I had a cat, Alex, who passed away Monday. It has been a difficult week for me.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
#28413066 - 07/29/23 05:03 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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damn, sorry about the mewster
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
#28413560 - 07/30/23 06:36 AM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Oh well, so much for my reading romanctic implications implicit in 'Alive again' versus 'Dead, Gone, Forgotten'
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
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It was about a personal loss I took badly. About a human, but I have struggled with cat loss in the past.
I did have two cats. I got Alex and Betsy in 2010. Betsy had mites and I was naive about getting cats from a shelter checked out. Betsy passed away after a week at the emergency vet. I went back and got another cat. I decide to wait to name her until I knew she was going to live (I did take her to the vet), and called her Little Girl. That ended up being her name. She was not quite right, a little unsteady. Very quiet, would open her mouth to meow but no sound would come out. She was my favorite. Passed away suddenly in 2015 on Thanksgiving day. I was distraught. It was like my soul had left my body and was replaced by coldness. That lasted about 6 months, until I met a human who cheered me up.
I think people often feel like they're dying or dead from personal loss.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
Edited by Rahz (07/30/23 09:53 AM)
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Something occurred to me about "dead, gone, forgotten". I want to say that was a more selfish version of me, feeling sorry for myself, unwilling or unable to let go of something that was gone. But thinking about it more, perhaps it is more selfish to more easily let go of something that is gone. Maybe selfish isn't the right word, or maybe selfish in itself doesn't say much about qualities.
And you are correct about the sig implication, alive again was related to the individual involved in the previous sig. I broke things off with her last December.

Still feel alive though.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Moses_Davidson
Non-Prophet



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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz] 1
#28414477 - 07/30/23 08:46 PM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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Sorry to hear about Little Girl.
My wife just got a new puppy this weekend. Very tiny, barks when she wants attention. "Cupcake"
Pets do increase life quality, decrease stress, and help one to live longer.
Maybe you'll be ready again someday for a new little friend for around the house.
-------------------- "In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill "The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose." J.B.S. Haldane "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." Mark Twain
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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I adopted a 14 year old blind cat who is now 15 and a half. If he isn't there to greet me when I get home I often joke if he's still alive.
He's my little retired couch potato who I will always have fond memories of. I suppose it's almost like fostering an animal, knowing you may only have them around a few months. At least with a cat like mine, I know he could still have a few good years in him.
And the convenience of his being potty trained by day 1, and able to communicate his needs, and be comfortable and used to being in a home while I'm away was good. Plus the blindness reduces any guilt of having him as an indoor cat because I know he can't survive outside and it's cute when he boops the walls, but only generally in new places. Is pretty weird to be able to wave my hands an inch infront of his eyes and have 0 reaction.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: sudly]
#28414730 - 07/31/23 04:32 AM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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the purrfect way to go
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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The thought of owning another pet gives me Pre Traumatic Stress Disorder
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
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I will get another cat or two eventually but I'm going to take a break from them. Alex was not very domestic. Scratched and hissed at friends. Wanted to dominate me the first 10 years of his life. But he was fun even in those days.
Could hear my truck from two blocks away. Would always be waiting for me at the drive when I pulled in. As soon as I parked I would always yell at the top of my voice Alexxxxx! I think he liked that. The last 3 years of his life he mellowed out a little. I felt we had a bond. Despite the sadness of loosing him, and his overall being a pain in the ass, I'm very glad to have been a tribe with him.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz] 1
#28414976 - 07/31/23 11:09 AM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: I will get another cat or two eventually but I'm going to take a break from them. Alex was not very domestic. Scratched and hissed at friends. Wanted to dominate me the first 10 years of his life. But he was fun even in those days.
Could hear my truck from two blocks away. Would always be waiting for me at the drive when I pulled in. As soon as I parked I would always yell at the top of my voice Alexxxxx! I think he liked that. The last 3 years of his life he mellowed out a little. I felt we had a bond. Despite the sadness of loosing him, and his overall being a pain in the ass, I'm very glad to have been a tribe with him.
This is a nice little eulogy for his life. He looks like he was a great cat.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Moses_Davidson
Non-Prophet



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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: The thought of owning another pet gives me Pre Traumatic Stress Disorder
LOL
-------------------- "In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill "The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose." J.B.S. Haldane "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." Mark Twain
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