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InvisibleRahz
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Inversion contemplation * 2
    #28401584 - 07/20/23 09:02 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

As opposed to "planning for success". I've read it has it's roots in Stoicism, the idea being to confront various failure possibilities to A- avoid them and B- better deal with them if they arise.

Does anyone see merit in such thought?


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28401595 - 07/20/23 09:22 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Spending time considering what can go wrong is a skill for advanced meditators who have access to relaxing mental contents.
Without this skill, the effects of PTSD will set in quickly.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28401606 - 07/20/23 09:29 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Pre traumatic stress disorder?


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28401665 - 07/20/23 10:59 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Quite funny - but it is an interesting approach.

The whole idea of talk therapy, as I understand it, is to establish a rapport in a safe relaxing space, where the client's mind can free associate, and observe perception during an exploration accompanied by the therapist guide, who manages a sustained non-threatening tone and enviromnent.

An advanced meditator, becomes his/her own therapist by finding and following the breath while relaxing and observing mental contents.

While observing mental contents both the arising and the fading of all mental contents can become apparent, including the arising and fading of finding the breath and following it as it flows in and out. The effort of doing so establishes a safe "MENTAL SPACE" which is a changing amphitheater that is shaped to fit the changing contents of the mind.

I note that I do not sustain the same mental form of finding and following the breath for longer than 3 minutes, and when I begin again, which I try to do anyway every minute or so, and sometimes with each breath, the mental shape and feeling is different. (I attribute this to the exhaustion of recently activated neurons) But also I find that as time goes on in the session (~40 mins), it becomes easier to begin again. (I attribute this to the short term memory property of recently activated neurons to be more easily re-activated by fewer active axon branchlets, than would be required to reactivate fully resting neurons).

In any case, I would say that questions arise about my day or my life or someones' life, and these interrupt my efforts at one pointedness, and as such these mental contents also arise and fade away and I am aware of them without losing the calm base that has been established. In this way the meditation that I do do normally is somewhat similar to your inversion contemplation, although it lacks a formal structure.

I am not sure what kind of formal structure would be good in order to establish the calm finding and following of the breath, and select for an interruption that fits the category of your inversion objective.
Probably what I am doing would just go that way if I had matters pressing in life that were "inverted".

A such, probably, you should just go for contemplation and let any inversion happen naturally, as it would do anyway.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28401691 - 07/20/23 11:42 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Shoulds aside I do just observe content unless there's a pressing matter or concern.

It was just an interesting idea I read about, thought I would share. Many similarities between the (ancient) West and the (ancient?) East.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
    #28401693 - 07/20/23 11:44 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

are you calling me ancient!
I'm just beginning!


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28401759 - 07/20/23 01:09 PM (6 months, 6 days ago)

You've been here almost 20 years. That's pretty ancient!


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
    #28401808 - 07/20/23 02:04 PM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Yer a couple of brass tacks foi coitan.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
    #28401858 - 07/20/23 02:57 PM (6 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
You've been here almost 20 years. That's pretty ancient!



yeah but I had no clue, then and I barely seem to be catching on now.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
    #28402380 - 07/21/23 12:25 AM (6 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
As opposed to "planning for success". I've read it has it's roots in Stoicism, the idea being to confront various failure possibilities to A- avoid them and B- better deal with them if they arise.

Does anyone see merit in such thought?




Yes, but it's hard not to look at a worst case scenario and kind of take it to heart sometimes, like talking to a new date and wondering if they're still interested after the first date, or wondering why they might have or might have not responded in a certain way.

Usually the arbiters of change are pretty novel, understandable and not what I was originally thinking and I try to look at more than one possibilities for 'failure', or to think there are usually less negative reasons for plans changing.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleTropism
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28402388 - 07/21/23 01:26 AM (6 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
As opposed to "planning for success". I've read it has it's roots in Stoicism, the idea being to confront various failure possibilities to A- avoid them and B- better deal with them if they arise.

Does anyone see merit in such thought?




Analyzing possible outcomes before we act is one our key abilities, as long as we don't get paralysis looking into the possibilities we are good.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Tropism] * 2
    #28402390 - 07/21/23 01:30 AM (6 months, 5 days ago)

Catastrophising seems to be an issue worth addressing imo.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28402454 - 07/21/23 04:16 AM (6 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Spending time considering what can go wrong is a skill for advanced meditators who have access to relaxing mental contents.
Without this skill, the effects of PTSD will set in quickly.




^ In that respect, cultivating a meditative foundation that includes training to be skilled at entering and exiting at least some of the Jhanas is a potentially good move, imho&e, particularly useful thanks to certain related positive side efx. 

It's spoken of in some sutta readings found scattered throughout the Tripitaka, partly like something along the lines of 'a necessary prescription of sorts for  monks / meditators with certain dispositions and whatnot'. 

Also, usually in the context of following dharmic practice, and touted like a fortifying psy-medicinal remedy which can allow for an appropriate degree of wellbeing, combined with equanimity, & heightened awareness - when needing to pass through some challenging obstacle, hence their giving the right stuff needed for one's 'set' for smooth sailing towards insight while navigating troubled waters.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: sudly] * 2
    #28402515 - 07/21/23 05:45 AM (6 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Yes, but it's hard not to look at a worst case scenario and kind of take it to heart sometimes, like talking to a new date and wondering if they're still interested after the first date, or wondering why they might have or might have not responded in a certain way.

Usually the arbiters of change are pretty novel, understandable and not what I was originally thinking and I try to look at more than one possibilities for 'failure', or to think there are usually less negative reasons for plans changing.




:thumbup:

“We are more often frightened than hurt; and we suffer more in imagination than in reality.” – Seneca


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Rahz]
    #28406709 - 07/24/23 04:31 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:

As opposed to "planning for success". I've read it has it's roots in Stoicism, the idea being to confront various failure possibilities to A- avoid them and B- better deal with them if they arise.

Does anyone see merit in such thought?




In some respects, this reminds me of "risk assessment" where one attempts to identify potential hazards and the corresponding effects and make plans accordingly.  The goal is not necessarily to eliminate all risks, but to weigh the risks and make improvements to reduce risks.  Some activities might be avoided if the risk is deemed too high.  Risk assessment is usually tied to actions, procedures, and equipment that minimize harm. 

Regarding being better able to "deal with failure possibilities", I've come to see self-help and therapy as a means to problem solving.  Certain "failure possibilities" and unexpected events are often problems to be solved, and the more prepared we are, the better they can be addressed.  Considering the stats, I guess nobody should be shocked if their marriage ends in divorce.

I understand and appreciate the opinion that there are no actual "problems" to be solved.  But if you are in a violent abusive relationship, or contemplating suicide, those are indeed problems to be solved.  If you compulsively harm yourself or weigh 600 pounds, it's wise to view that as a problem to be solved.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28406737 - 07/24/23 04:59 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

Maybe with respect to an equation?  Sure.  :sip:
If regarded outside of mathematics or grammatical correctness (eg. wrt > S.W.E.), 'problems' & even 'mistakes' for that matter, idk rly. < Mehh!

The things we often deem to be a problem or a mistake usually isn't in and of itself ever actually either of those two things, so imho&e, it seem largely a matter of perspective. 

However, if you're talking about difficulties, challenges, & quagmires - then sure, no doubt about it.

Phenomenon, features, aspects, facets, and dimensions to be unearthed, explored, discovered; or, faculties, characteristics, & attributes to be learned of, also, predictable yet suddenly occurring emergency dilemmas to either panic over -or- to remain chill about and alert to.  < Yeahh!


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28406836 - 07/24/23 05:57 PM (6 months, 1 day ago)

Yes, I'd referring to difficulties and challenges.  Not the ones involved in rebuilding a transmission - the ones that fuel suffering and misery.

"Risk assessment" is used in industry and is usually tied to personal safety and quality control.  It's a stretch to view it in terms of being human, but I find it interesting to ponder. It can go far beyond choosing to wear a condom.


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28410422 - 07/27/23 01:43 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)

When we worry about the horrible monster under the bed, it can be comforting to turn on the light. Sometimes contemplation of the worst-case-scenario can bring great comfort as we learn that it really isn't that bad.

I think this realization is the lance that drains the boil of Pre Traumatic Stress Disorder.

Some people die a thousand deaths of worry.


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"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
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"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #28410447 - 07/27/23 02:08 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)

Normally one worry just segues way to the next, as people adopt defensive worrying postures and thought loops.
This is not therapeutic, this is obsessive and a generally dysphoric habit. "but what if...?"

as a contemplation, one establishes calmness, or tranquility without inverting anything.
then when enough calmness and clarity of mind is set up, one can unpack one problem and view it in a detached and calm way.

let it go no further than that


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Inversion contemplation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28410613 - 07/27/23 04:24 PM (5 months, 29 days ago)

Loss can lead to appreciation that was absent before. I think ones ability to love in a more genuine and less needy way can develop when one understands that everything life gives is temporary.

Good end point for such contemplations depending on what the subject matter is.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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