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Invisibleiamevil
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Registered: 06/28/23
Posts: 16
Loc: in between dreams
Do you do a financial forecast of your grows?
    #28401387 - 07/20/23 04:35 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

howdy

i am posting this here instead of 'money matters' as it's about improving the efficiency of mushroom cultivation. a financial forecast will help keep things focused in regards to 'what am i doing' & 'what do i need to do' regarding your grow.

i'm a rookie in this game but i decided it's high time to put a money grid together and figure out the inputs and outputs of this ole mushroom cultivation, and what i found was very interesting. if you're a pro and getting fat dense canopies all the time but don't put it all into excel, i think this would still help, just to tighten costs and see where you're over spending, but really i think this is most helpful for noob-ish growers, like myself.

i keep a hand written journal of everything mushroom cultivation related that i do. if i make some agar i jot the recipe i used, if i pour plates i say how many, if i throw something out, etc, so i already have a lot of info on my own grow, and i recommend that too (as well as labelling everything!) but it was less obvious for me to make a financial forecast of all my costs and expenditures. anyway, i eventually did it, and i highly recommend it.

my biggest costs were mini clingfilm rolls and coco coir. this surprised me. 

instantly i remembered reading so many posts from cultivators saying that they just cut to length from standard clingfilm, and how everytime i chuckled to my self thinking "what cheapskates! surely the convenience of minirolls is more efficient, and the cost difference is negligible" and yet it turns out i was sure wrong, it is one of the most expensive items, what a fool i've been! from now on i will cut to length, forgive me my vain hubris, shroomery gods!

the coir also surprised me for the opposite reason. i've seen many posts that go way back up till the now where essentially a noob inquires about sterilizing a substrate, and the answer from a choir of cultivators is just to chuck it, as the cost of coir and verm is negligible. but for me, gram for gram, it is on the expensive side. (verm was very cheap)
it makes me think of this ('endless sub tek') - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27768853/fpart/all - (chuck spent/contaminated substrate into a bag/jar, sterilize in pressure cooker, use as substrate, with what appears to be great success) something which i now am even more incentivized to try!
it is worth noting, extending this dull post a little longer, that coir is one of the items which for me had the highest hidden cost, which i put down to incorrect moisture content and also impatience (to think of the jars and tubs i threw out in the early days just out of impatience assuming they were contaminated... RIP). i have since got field capacity down, but now i had an incentive to find a better coir provider, something i wouldn't have done otherwise, because it is apparently so cheap, like the mini clingfilm rolls, i hadn't questioned spending X amount of $ here and there on what is an essential item and had no reason to be bothered to look elsewhere. putting everything into a money grid gives you a reason; a reason to spend less and look elsewhere, a reason to refresh your mind and pay attention to the parts where you're going wrong.

still here? grain, like coir, had a high hidden cost (for me) because i once again hadn't been getting the moisture content right until recently, but as my grain is so cheap it wasn't too detrimental to my operating costs, however, it was helpful to understand and see more clearly the improvements over time, of less jars being throw out = less money and time wasted = i'm improving, awesome.

so - do you do a financial forecast? as in, everything you buy, you put into a grid, to work out what % of your grow each component costs you?

also, do you mark down every success or failure, like a substrate stalling/ becoming contaminated, and being thrown out? (you may do this, but not tie it to the finances, but you should, as it helps you figure out the additional hidden costs of failure, and can sharpen your attention to where you need to improve)

just thought i'd put that out there, it helped me, maybe you can't be bothered, but maybe you should? maybe this is obvious wisdom and i'm really not putting anything out there at all, lol!

peace


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: iamevil] * 1
    #28401396 - 07/20/23 04:54 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

iamevil said:
howdy

i am posting this here instead of 'money matters' as it's about improving the efficiency of mushroom cultivation.





I read through those blocks of text and couldn't find anything that really even hinted at improving efficiency of a cultivation attempt other than, and I'll paraphrase; "Stick to the solid advice offered, follow a proven tek".

:shrug:


--------------------
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OfflineCamera93
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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: george castanza]
    #28401533 - 07/20/23 07:59 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

so whats it cost you per oz of dry mushrooms?


--------------------
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I’m fine.

Whatever you decide won’t really impact our survival
Close your eyes, and do the best that you can



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OfflineExhaustus
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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: iamevil]
    #28401591 - 07/20/23 09:15 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Cost analysis is a great way to estimate your running sum.

I tend to involve the potency of the genetics and cross compare the surface area of my bulks to estimate my canopy thickness. I have a few rows in my excel sheet assuming different loss percentages and a few equations to work in specific amounts of loss.

I have to estimate my income based on the unknown so I can adjust my grows up to 3 months in the future. I don't want to run into any stalls or road blocks.

I figure I will add in stalls and loss at some point, but that is once my original genetics stop performing.

To be honest I've mostly just started, but I am comparing a handful of methods, mixes, and variables to project what will work best for me going forward.

Once my experiments are full flushed and I have all of my data I'm going to post an addition to all of the techniques I used that brought cheap success. I appreciate other peoples opinions, but normally only when I ask for them, and they're related to my reality. I hate getting barraged by people who want me to convert to their entire way of life.

Just judge your variables in the moment and keep two running spreadsheets on current loses and of-all-time. You'll build a lot of perspective.

Also, this forum seems to be about general cultivation discussion. They yell at folks for posting too much, but the yellers sit there F5 bombing just to say it.

They're all the grains of salt you should take lightly. Feel free to toss them over your shoulder.


--------------------
Rhizomorphically hunting Tomentose Sectors - x3zR
Mycofluidics

Turgor is Awesome - https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/turgor


Shoe Boxes R Us! - Or else!


To attain the paradise all sentient creatures are open to, I train day and night, among mountains and fields!


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InvisibleTheAtlanteanS
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Loc: Milkyway Galaxy, Laniakea Supe...
Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: Exhaustus] * 4
    #28401639 - 07/20/23 10:23 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

:whattefuck2:


--------------------

Meditation is passive learning. Tabernacling with the one infinite Creator is passive learning. It is the learning from listening to the voice one cannot hear which answers questions which one cannot ask. The process cannot be known and cannot come into consciousness in local sense, yet the learning is there. And the strength of spirit and will which comes from this learning is helpful.
.

:egyptian:www.templeofhermes.org:egyptian:


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Invisibleiamevil
skunk hunter


Registered: 06/28/23
Posts: 16
Loc: in between dreams
Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: Camera93]
    #28403630 - 07/22/23 08:10 AM (6 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

george castanza said:
Quote:

iamevil said:
howdy

i am posting this here instead of 'money matters' as it's about improving the efficiency of mushroom cultivation.





I read through those blocks of text and couldn't find anything that really even hinted at improving efficiency of a cultivation attempt other than, and I'll paraphrase; "Stick to the solid advice offered, follow a proven tek".

:shrug:




fair, i guess a lot of this forum could be replaced with a sticky post with the proven teks and mods could just delete all the superfluous noob posts like this one, haven't seen a financial tek yet though

Quote:

Camera93 said:
so whats it cost you per oz of dry mushrooms?




just over $17 which is pretty high, that's taking into all the equipment like shelves, pressure cooker, etc, so it'll get a lot lower over time


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Invisibleiamevil
skunk hunter


Registered: 06/28/23
Posts: 16
Loc: in between dreams
Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: Exhaustus]
    #28403638 - 07/22/23 08:22 AM (6 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Exhaustus said:
Cost analysis is a great way to estimate your running sum.

I tend to involve the potency of the genetics and cross compare the surface area of my bulks to estimate my canopy thickness. I have a few rows in my excel sheet assuming different loss percentages and a few equations to work in specific amounts of loss.

I have to estimate my income based on the unknown so I can adjust my grows up to 3 months in the future. I don't want to run into any stalls or road blocks.

I figure I will add in stalls and loss at some point, but that is once my original genetics stop performing.






how do you figure potency, assuming it's just a subjective note you make, obviously sometimes things are obviously stronger, but can imagine you can put a number to it..?

sounds a lot more complicated than mine, sounds cool though, i like the idea of forecasting forward

i add stalls/losses, everything goes in a chain, syringe to agar, agar to grain, grain to sub, sub to harvest 1 2 3 etc that way if any point fails i just note when, and look back to what the costs of up to that point

i like the idea of this endless sub tek and very curious to how it'll pan out, the posts dried up so maybe the op ran into issues


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: iamevil] * 1
    #28403663 - 07/22/23 08:50 AM (6 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

iamevil said:
Quote:

george castanza said:
Quote:

iamevil said:
howdy

i am posting this here instead of 'money matters' as it's about improving the efficiency of mushroom cultivation.





I read through those blocks of text and couldn't find anything that really even hinted at improving efficiency of a cultivation attempt other than, and I'll paraphrase; "Stick to the solid advice offered, follow a proven tek".

:shrug:




fair, i guess a lot of this forum could be replaced with a sticky post with the proven teks and mods could just delete all the superfluous noob posts like this one, haven't seen a financial tek yet though

Quote:

Camera93 said:
so whats it cost you per oz of dry mushrooms?




just over $17 which is pretty high, that's taking into all the equipment like shelves, pressure cooker, etc, so it'll get a lot lower over time





Searching post is encouraged, mods lock and delete post at will.

There are sticky post and had you read them and all the links they contain and all the relevant or related post that'll appear at the bottom of the post (if you choose to show that option) very little new post would be made as the informationon on most topics is emmense.

Years ago we (moderators and administrators) had a discussion about this very issue and decided that allowing a rehash without searching old post would be more beneficial to the accumulation of knowledge than taking a hardliner stance and forcing posters to post in existing threads that already cover the subject; noting that this was back when server space was an issue and today it really isn't concerning text post.


I am unaware of any previous post entitled "financial forecast" although I am quite certain this subject has been discussed before. However there was a time when these types of discussions were frowned upon due to the connotation of the possibility that one would endeavor to produce a substance of questionable legality for profit.


Understanding that you did agree not to attempt to use the shroomery for the purposes of breaking any local laws or ordnance. I will allow this topic to continue unless you disagree with my reasoning that you are not attempting to break any laws at this time.

So please carry on and enjoy the discourse of this topic as it is relevant in real world applications of growing fungus in a conrltrolled setting.


--------------------
KRAMER CAKES




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InvisibleZymosis
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Registered: 10/17/15
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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: george castanza] * 1
    #28403697 - 07/22/23 09:21 AM (6 months, 4 days ago)

Following.  I haven’t done any cost analysis, never felt the need because no matter what the cost of growing is I save money over buying.  Especially with spore prints and clones making everything self sustaining indefinitely, reusing as much as you can like mason jars, tubs, SFDs, syringes, glass Petri dishes.  Following proven teks to minimize loss and failures.  That’s true whether you grow actives or gourmet for personal use. 

I have considered bringing some gourmet mushrooms to the local farmer’s market though so cost analysis might be helpful to figure out if that is worth the effort.


--------------------


Edited by Zymosis (07/22/23 10:11 AM)


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OfflineExhaustus
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Registered: 07/14/23
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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: iamevil]
    #28404273 - 07/22/23 06:15 PM (6 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

iamevil said:
Quote:

Exhaustus said:
Cost analysis is a great way to estimate your running sum.

I tend to involve the potency of the genetics and cross compare the surface area of my bulks to estimate my canopy thickness. I have a few rows in my excel sheet assuming different loss percentages and a few equations to work in specific amounts of loss.

I have to estimate my income based on the unknown so I can adjust my grows up to 3 months in the future. I don't want to run into any stalls or road blocks.

I figure I will add in stalls and loss at some point, but that is once my original genetics stop performing.






how do you figure potency, assuming it's just a subjective note you make, obviously sometimes things are obviously stronger, but can imagine you can put a number to it..?

sounds a lot more complicated than mine, sounds cool though, i like the idea of forecasting forward

i add stalls/losses, everything goes in a chain, syringe to agar, agar to grain, grain to sub, sub to harvest 1 2 3 etc that way if any point fails i just note when, and look back to what the costs of up to that point

i like the idea of this endless sub tek and very curious to how it'll pan out, the posts dried up so maybe the op ran into issues





Some genetics colonize quickly, fruit quickly, and produce dense grows. Surface area to potency of the fruit, or just the genetic growth potency. This comes into play when you're studying the intensity of low volumes. A cube isn't the same strength by weight as a Pan. It's just a variable to daily operating costs producing research subjects.


--------------------
Rhizomorphically hunting Tomentose Sectors - x3zR
Mycofluidics

Turgor is Awesome - https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/turgor


Shoe Boxes R Us! - Or else!


To attain the paradise all sentient creatures are open to, I train day and night, among mountains and fields!


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: Exhaustus] * 2
    #28404281 - 07/22/23 06:27 PM (6 months, 3 days ago)

:llamastare:


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: Exhaustus] * 6
    #28404284 - 07/22/23 06:28 PM (6 months, 3 days ago)

This is an enthusiastic new grower activity for sure.


If you continue growing and do more than a few tubs at a time it’s just not feasible to keep up with, plus there isn’t much point unless you just love stats or are planning on culture hunting and scaling to a commercial farm.


Coir is by far the most expensive thing, especially considering you can usually get a 50lb bag of manure for under $2.


Anyways lots of people do stuff like this at first but the novelty wears off quick.


There’s no way to estimate potency or canopy thickness or any of that with an unknown culture. Every grow is basically a genetic crap shoot.  Even when I expand a colonized jar into ten new jars I still get a range of results in each tub.


--------------------
LAGM2020


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OfflineExhaustus
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Registered: 07/14/23
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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: A.k.a]
    #28405101 - 07/23/23 09:32 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)




If you continue growing and do more than a few tubs at a time it’s just not feasible to keep up with, plus there isn’t much point unless you just love stats or are planning on culture hunting and scaling to a commercial farm.


Coir is by far the most expensive thing, especially considering you can usually get a 50lb bag of manure for under $2.


Anyways lots of people do stuff like this at first but the novelty wears off quick.


There’s no way to estimate potency or canopy thickness or any of that with an unknown culture. Every grow is basically a genetic crap shoot.  Even when I expand a colonized jar into ten new jars I still get a range of results in each tub.




Crotchety old-head activity for sure. Boasting a bountiful basket of bullshit and projection. Obviously never watched grain colonize at different rates. Whatever, we can live our lives however we like. IDK why it makes them so mad.

Gathering more fingers to point


--------------------
Rhizomorphically hunting Tomentose Sectors - x3zR
Mycofluidics

Turgor is Awesome - https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/turgor


Shoe Boxes R Us! - Or else!


To attain the paradise all sentient creatures are open to, I train day and night, among mountains and fields!


Edited by Exhaustus (07/23/23 09:33 AM)


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: Exhaustus] * 3
    #28405132 - 07/23/23 10:09 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

explain to me how watching grain colonize gives you any information about potency or canopy potential and you won’t get banned.


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OfflineiceNock


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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: Exhaustus] * 1
    #28405140 - 07/23/23 10:17 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Exhaustus said:



If you continue growing and do more than a few tubs at a time it’s just not feasible to keep up with, plus there isn’t much point unless you just love stats or are planning on culture hunting and scaling to a commercial farm.


Coir is by far the most expensive thing, especially considering you can usually get a 50lb bag of manure for under $2.


Anyways lots of people do stuff like this at first but the novelty wears off quick.


There’s no way to estimate potency or canopy thickness or any of that with an unknown culture. Every grow is basically a genetic crap shoot.  Even when I expand a colonized jar into ten new jars I still get a range of results in each tub.




Crotchety old-head activity for sure. Boasting a bountiful basket of bullshit and projection. Obviously never watched grain colonize at different rates. Whatever, we can live our lives however we like. IDK why it makes them so mad.

Gathering more fingers to point</font>





:wtf3:


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: iceNock]
    #28405160 - 07/23/23 10:44 AM (6 months, 2 days ago)



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Invisibleiamevil
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Registered: 06/28/23
Posts: 16
Loc: in between dreams
Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: Exhaustus]
    #28405164 - 07/23/23 10:47 AM (6 months, 2 days ago)

thanks george castanza :-)

i'm not trying to encourage the breaking of any laws or profiteering, more that the hobby has costs, and recognizing and appreciating those can be a form of meditating on the weak spots in ones budding skillset ("why am i spending so much money on coir? maybe i'm doing something wrong") and particularly useful for someone starting out, just to get a bearing as it can sometimes be overwhelming with the flood on so much knowledge on this forum to understand your own personal journey of becoming a cultivator

Quote:

Zymosis said:
Following.  I haven’t done any cost analysis, never felt the need because no matter what the cost of growing is I save money over buying.  Especially with spore prints and clones making everything self sustaining indefinitely, reusing as much as you can like mason jars, tubs, SFDs, syringes, glass Petri dishes.  Following proven teks to minimize loss and failures.  That’s true whether you grow actives or gourmet for personal use. 

I have considered bringing some gourmet mushrooms to the local farmer’s market though so cost analysis might be helpful to figure out if that is worth the effort.




following teks is the most important thing for sure. i liked doing this little stat gathering as i felt it grounded me in where i am right now in regards to my grows, as opposed to feeling a bit lost hanging on the coat tails of others knowledge or thinking i was better or worse than i actually am, putting a hard number to things is like a concrete pillar in the sea of abstract knowledge, a reality check

Quote:

A.k.a said:
This is an enthusiastic new grower activity for sure.


If you continue growing and do more than a few tubs at a time it’s just not feasible to keep up with, plus there isn’t much point unless you just love stats or are planning on culture hunting and scaling to a commercial farm.


Coir is by far the most expensive thing, especially considering you can usually get a 50lb bag of manure for under $2.


Anyways lots of people do stuff like this at first but the novelty wears off quick.




i guess, i find keeping a notebook pretty easy, i don't see how upscaling would make it any more difficult, it's just as complicated as 'buy things and put costs in grid' (receipts) 'note down when you did a load of agar/ grain jars/ tubs'
but i am a stat nerd it's true, i like charts, i'm excited to see an ascending line reflecting the growing success of my mushroom cultivation, and hey, who wouldn't want to scale to a commercial farm?!

i'll probably begin my journey into the world of manure once i've got a few more grows with coir and see, probably do a 1:3 manure:coir - my pasteurizing facilities aren't the best


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OfflineExhaustus
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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: A.k.a]
    #28405165 - 07/23/23 10:50 AM (6 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
explain to me how watching grain colonize gives you any information about potency or canopy potential and you won’t get banned.





I even mentioned the potency of the genetic growth factor (how fast they colonize and fruit) :crazy:

Or like, you've literally never even seen a shroom that has different cap size  compared to other strains :crazy:

I can share some wonderful media for you, doubt you'd care to see what I'm saying though.

I even have a nice link in my signature to explain mycofluidics and the relation to fruiting body and hyphal formation.

Turgor too. Totally worth the time you guys spend on us "newbies" instead.


--------------------
Rhizomorphically hunting Tomentose Sectors - x3zR
Mycofluidics

Turgor is Awesome - https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/turgor


Shoe Boxes R Us! - Or else!


To attain the paradise all sentient creatures are open to, I train day and night, among mountains and fields!


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OfflineArctic_Fox
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Re: Do you do a financial forecast of your grows? [Re: iamevil]
    #28405215 - 07/23/23 11:55 AM (6 months, 2 days ago)

You will notice on this forum that people use an abundance of methods to achieve the same goals, and there are many reasons to choose one method or another, including cost. As well as time, difficulty, success rate, and space requirements.

For example, pressure cookers can be expensive. So some people don't use them, while accepting the limitations this brings.

I'm sure anyone who does the same thing multiple times will eventually start finding ways to make it cheaper and more efficient, even if they didn't start that way. The first agar I found was super expensive, but I kept my eye out and found local stores that sell it for very cheap. The dollar store has a 25 foot roll of aluminum foil for $1.70. If it works for wrapping my dishes in, there's no reason to spend more and waste Alcan on them, right?

So I think everyone does this whether they realize it or not, and depending on what their priorities are. Maybe they're so busy that they don't care about finding the best deals.


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