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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Growth [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27383366 - 07/11/21 05:16 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Why fight them?

Don't fall for their lies.

Quote:

The analysis undercuts arguments by some company executives and trade groups that Biden’s plan would leave U.S. firms paying some of the world’s highest taxes and struggling to compete against foreign rivals. Industry representatives have aggressively lobbied against the proposal, which would increase the corporate tax rate to 28%, from the current 21%. The president also wants a minimum tax of 21% on overseas income, up from 10.5%.

U.S. corporations typically pay less - sometimes much less - than those statutory rates because the U.S. tax code is unusually generous with tax breaks and deductions, and in allowing overseas tax planning, according to the Reuters analysis. The analysis was reviewed by four academics with experience in measuring corporate tax payments.

Reuters examined the effective tax rates – reflecting the actual tax payments companies reported – of 52 of the largest U.S.-based multinational firms, and then compared them to the rates paid by these companies’ main overseas competitors. The U.S. companies paid an average effective tax rate of 16% in 2020 compared to an average rate of 24% paid by 200 foreign companies that the U.S. firms named as their competitors in filings.

If Biden’s proposed tax rates were applied to the U.S. firms’ 2020 earnings, the companies would have paid effective rates averaging about five percentage points higher, or 21%, the Reuters analysis found.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/even-after-biden-tax-hike-us-firms-would-pay-less-than-foreign-rivals-2021-06-22/




There's also a difference between income tax and capitol gains tax, so that even if you increase the income tax on billionaires, they often don't feel the pinch because they make their income from capitol gains/assets.

Quote:

ProPublica found that while the median American household earning roughly $70,000 per year paid 14% in federal taxes each year, the 25 richest Americans (by Forbes’ tally) paid a “true tax rate” of just 3.4% on wealth growth of $401 billion between 2014 and 2018

According to ProPublica’s analysis, billionaire investor Warren Buffett, an advocate of higher taxes on the rich, saw his wealth grow by more than $24 billion from 2014 to 2018 and paid a true tax rate of 0.10%—a reflection of the fact that he reported just $125 million in income during that period, makes large charitable contributions and (since he pays himself a minimal salary), most of his income comes in the form of lower-taxed capital gains.

Amazon founder and CEO Jeff Bezos paid a true tax rate of 0.98% as his wealth grew by a staggering $99 billion between 2014 and 2018; he reported just $4.22 billion in reported income during the same period

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2021/06/08/richest-americans-including-bezos-musk-and-buffett-paid-federal-income-taxes-equaling-just-34-of-401-billion-in-new-wealth-bombshell-report-shows/amp/




Gerrymandering and voter suppression are rampant, heck Republicans rely on it in their own words.

Quote:

Top Trump adviser: Republicans have ‘always’ relied on voter suppression

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/21/trump-adviser-republicans-voter-suppression




Quote:

Trump says Republicans would ‘never’ be elected again if it was easier to vote

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/trump-republican-party-voting-reform-coronavirus




The problem is though, Democrats are economically just as bad, the only difference is that they put rainbow flags on their missiles, and maybe they wouldn't tell people to inject bleach but that's a low bar.

There was some hope in progressive grass roots movements but they seem to have been quashed or their elected officials fight has wayned, maybe a new wave in 2022 has hope.

Maybe they need algorithms to read what people want because the people in charge definitely don't care about polls and surveys of what American's want. Background checks, Medicare etc.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisible2sky
a friend of Narnia
Male
Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 119
Loc: the Dawn
Re: Growth [Re: sudly]
    #27395596 - 07/20/21 07:07 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

The top 1 percent own 90 percent of the country

and when Trump cut corporate taxes from 35 percent to 20 percent, who benefited ?

- They Live - 1982


--------------------
To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968

But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
Non-Prophet
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/21/20
Posts: 613
Last seen: 3 months, 28 days
Re: Growth [Re: 2sky]
    #27395779 - 07/20/21 09:09 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I think Bezos is a great example of the problem with the US tax system.

What I'm about to say isn't political, so please try not to polarize it. I did part of my masters thesis on Amazon. The company pays almost zero in taxes because they use a system called Base Erosion and Profit Shifting ("BEPS"). Some people also call it "transfer pricing" but its really just BEPS. Transfer pricing actually refers to the assigned cost of smuggling the revenue-generating business OUT of the US.

It doesn't matter if they raise the corporate taxes to 50% or cut them to 10% in our current situation, because:

They set up dummy corporations in Ireland, Holland, and other international corporate tax havens. This is usually followed by a "tax reform treaty" and then some token employees being sent over to Ireland, which grows every year. Now Ireland has huge numbers of Amazon employees. Anytime a corporation makes money, they point at the other dummy subsidiary corporations in other countries so that nobody makes any money. Here is a diagram of Amazon's shell subsidiary corporations designed to erode their profits away from the US and launder them over to other nations for the purpose of tax structuring:



For reference, here is a diagram of Enron's shell subsidiary corporations:



If you study it, you can see a lot of common patterns. I shall translate it into non-financial English. "Its all a bunch of bullcrap so that they can use shell corporations to move money around to make it disappear and reappear to their advantage. Same crap. Different companies."

Here is a little video that provides a grossly oversimplified explanation of transfer pricing:

>

This isn't just Bezos doing this. Your favorite and most hated multinational corporations are probably already doing this or are struggling to try to implement BEPS strategies so that they can in the near future.

When we lower corporate taxes at home, we bring in fewer taxes. When we raise corporate taxes at home, the BEPS divisions at the big accounting firms will triple in size overnight and their clients all start a mass exodus so they can start down the path to paying less than 1% in effective corporate taxes.

Canada has a pretty good solution for all of this. They just ignore all of the corporate shell game BS and tax them anyways, with no written way of justifying it. "Nope, not having it." The IRS could just do that too, but they don't. Not sure why.

We have practically forced all of these companies to leave and go to Ireland. Ireland is in the biggest economic growth boom ever now. They try to put everything they can over there in Ireland. The Repubicans and the Democrats are to blame for this situation. No nice way to say it. No polarizing it. You can't "Vote for Jethro" and fix it.

But certainly, a simple tax hike will do NOTHING to these corporations like Amazon, Apple, Bank of America, Google, and other big multinationals.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
Non-Prophet
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/21/20
Posts: 613
Last seen: 3 months, 28 days
Re: Growth [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27395785 - 07/20/21 09:17 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

<sarcasm>
Incidentally, if you have a tax liability of over $10 million and are interested to reduce that to near zero, just contact one of the big accounting firms, ask for the BEPS / Transfer Pricing department, and they will fix you all up. Pay them $1 million in fees instead and they'll hook you all up with your very own IRS-approved BEPS strategy, fully compliant with all OECD international tax guidelines so that you too can avoid paying taxes. Totally legal.
</sarcasm>


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: Growth [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27396058 - 07/21/21 04:04 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

all I need is my first 10 million


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisible2sky
a friend of Narnia
Male
Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 119
Loc: the Dawn
Re: Growth [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #28399476 - 07/18/23 08:10 AM (6 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Moses_Davidson said:
<sarcasm>
Incidentally, if you have a tax liability of over $10 million and are interested to reduce that to near zero, just contact one of the big accounting firms, ask for the BEPS / Transfer Pricing department, and they will fix you all up. Pay them $1 million in fees instead and they'll hook you all up with your very own IRS-approved BEPS strategy, fully compliant with all OECD international tax guidelines so that you too can avoid paying taxes. Totally legal.
</sarcasm>




the Waltons make one hundred million dollars a day as their share for sending our jobs and TECHNOLOGY to China, so how much tax do they pay?


--------------------
To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968

But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho


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