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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: syncro]
    #28399615 - 07/18/23 10:52 AM (6 months, 7 days ago)

Not being one to adopt indigenous custom puts me permanently in the ranks of the transient I believe.


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InvisibleLithop
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: syncro]
    #28399751 - 07/18/23 01:05 PM (6 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Solidarity behind the constant of change embraces the expression of dissention in association with growth as an affect of involvement that, yes, can lead to agravated responses defending personal interpretations of 'due course'.



Sorry, Buster- I don't get what you mean by that dude.
Any way you could rephrase?
You don't have to, of course. Have you ever tried or been interested by any other forms of divination at all?

Quote:

syncro said:
:lol: Ok, I will spill the secret beans, and their life was changed, from. that. day. forward.

The Oracle addresses the Wanderer in response to

"Why does the mystical world hide itself?"

(get it yet??)

And the Wonderer is none other than the author of that thread!



And just like that, I -another aimless soul- become liberated from the shackles of Samsara.
All by the exchange of a single vowel :tongue2:

Hope you guys are having a good day :nyan:


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: Lithop]
    #28399834 - 07/18/23 02:25 PM (6 months, 7 days ago)

Sensitive issues agravate... resolution of disagreement may kindle a preferred response, in which history or popular fiction can have a Pavlovian effect.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28400343 - 07/19/23 05:56 AM (6 months, 7 days ago)

Do you I Chingers follow this or something similar? I hadn't realized the implication of changing lines, which is, um, changing lines, to the resulting hexagram in some cases. I thought a result was disparate to my inquiry but the hexagram resulting from changing lines was applied.

Quote:

How to interpret the reading

No changing lines
    Consider the hexagram text (judgment) of the hexagram.
1 changing line
    Consider the line text of the changing line.
2 or 3 changing lines
    Consider the line texts and also the hexagram text (judgment) of the resulting hexagram.
4, 5 or 6 changing lines
    Consider the hexagram texts (judgments) of the base and resulting hexagrams.
    (You could check out the line texts, however they will often be conflicting, and may not clearly relate to the situation.)
For hexagram 1 or 2, when all lines change
    Consider the special text for this situation.





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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28400449 - 07/19/23 08:12 AM (6 months, 7 days ago)

Bradford Hatcher

Corresponds 'innocence' and 'unassailability'


with the 5 of swords and 4 of pentacles respectively.

From your post I assume other hexagrams are indicated by the broken lines?


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28400464 - 07/19/23 08:25 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

The gapped lines are not changing lines which are represented by Xs and Os in gapped and solid lines respectively, or in this case the changing lines are colored red. The functions seem nice on that site because you can click the tab to the transformed hex indicated by the changing lines. ichingonline.net



Edited by syncro (07/19/23 08:49 AM)


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: syncro]
    #28400478 - 07/19/23 08:50 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

So which are the 'Changing' lines, the broken ones?


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: syncro]
    #28400483 - 07/19/23 08:55 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Is there much importance put to different sources for judgements and texts, or are they pretty standard? Are there favs and stay-aways?


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #28400485 - 07/19/23 08:58 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
So which are the 'Changing' lines, the broken ones?




The changing lines are red, or with my physical I Ching, and I've seen images of the same, they are marked with the Xs and Os, so we see both solid and broken lines can be changing.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: syncro]
    #28400487 - 07/19/23 09:01 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)



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Onlinesyncro
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: syncro]
    #28400489 - 07/19/23 09:04 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

The reading with that application makes it rich, learning something new.


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InvisibleLithop
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: syncro]
    #28400491 - 07/19/23 09:05 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Do you I Chingers follow this or something similar? I hadn't realized the implication of changing lines, which is, um, changing lines, to the resulting hexagram in some cases. I thought a result was disparate to my inquiry but the hexagram resulting from changing lines was applied.





Depending how you're consulting- King Wen sequence, for example (the most notable style, AFAIK) there are different ways to interpret moving lines- as well as different parts to pay close attention to based on method.

The IChing itsself consists of 32 set of Hexagrams consisting of Condition, Judgment and Image- moving lines often dictate which one of the CHANGED hexagrams (future or transformed hex) content is most applicable.
Personally, I don't often get multiple changing lines but the way of consulting them that you posted before is pretty much the way I do things too.

I got Stephen Karchers 'Total I Ching' recently and he goes into stuff like kernal of hidden possibility, relating pairs and all that it's awesome and pretty useful. It also has the old figures like they used to read from burnt bones and sacrificed bodies and whatnot- fucking sick!
:rockon:

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Sensitive issues agravate... resolution of disagreement may kindle a preferred response, in which history or popular fiction can have a Pavlovian effect.



You had me till Pavlov bro, I do try :lol:

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
So which are the 'Changing' lines, the broken ones?



Nah, the changing line is one where you roll a 6 or a 9, moving Yin looks like the -X- and moving Yang -o-.
The former turning into __ Yang and the latter_ _ Yin.
It's about energy transfer/stagnation in the situation.


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InvisibleLithop
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: syncro]
    #28400497 - 07/19/23 09:11 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Is there much importance put to different sources for judgements and texts, or are they pretty standard? Are there favs and stay-aways?



There are different historical figures who allegedly are who each part refers to- Duke of Chous JUDGEMENT, for example.

Wilhelm edition states:
"Each hexagram combines two trigrams: a lower- or inner trigram and an upper- or outer trigram.
They frequently relate, respectively, to subjective and objective conditions.
Each chapter consists of four parts:
THE CONDITION- a description of the overall situation or idea.
THE JUDGMENT- associated moral guidance developed from the idea.
THE IMAGE- thoughts derived from the heaxagrams image, or its attributes, in giving counsel to a wise man.
DEGREES OF CHANGE- Six situations within the overal condition. The DEGREES set out six varieties of condition, often as a progressive development through the overall condition."

EDIT: I highly rate this too
Visionary IChing deck
The language is way less patriachal/ lost in translationy than the Wilhelm.

My Wilhelm stinks of someones cigs from yesteryear. Fuckin reeks now that I grabbed it off the shelf....


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Edited by Lithop (07/19/23 09:47 AM)


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: Lithop]
    #28400554 - 07/19/23 10:11 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Correct me if I'm mistaken.
Changing lines only occur in the first two lines of each trigram? Or can the final line of a trigram indicate change progressing to the first line of the following trigram?


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28400583 - 07/19/23 10:46 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

As far as I see, as seen in tossing the sticks, each has the same possibilities, like dice.

a solid line, or solid line changing
a broken line, or broken line changing

Four sides to a stick.


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InvisibleLithop
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28400587 - 07/19/23 10:48 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Correct me if I'm mistaken.
Changing lines only occur in the first two lines of each trigram? Or can the final line of a trigram indicate change progressing to the first line of the following trigram?



All lines in a hexagram can change, bearing in mind that you read the hexagram as a whole (apart from seeing what each trigram represents within the hexagram IE Water over Mountain).
As far as I'm aware the changing lines of the overall (lets say 'present') hexagram serve to lead you to its related ('future') hexagram.



So if I asked,
"Anything I should keep in mind about my spiritual practise throughout the month?"
and threw the coins for a value of (lowest line to highest)
7, 7, 8, 9,7, 7, I'd be left with the above picture.
Important to note, you treat the changing line in its UNCHANGED form for your first hexagram IE the '9', or moving yang is treated as yang.
I see the circle as blasting the middle out of it, turning it into yin :shrug: So the 4th line on that first card, actually looked like -o- when I wrote it on paper.

10: Treading Carefully
with a changing 4th line which leads to the hexagram
61:Centering in truth

To me, I would pay attention to the entirety of the first hexagram with specific notice to how changing line 4: "When you are certain of your ultimate success, even stomping on the tigers tail doesn't matter. The most important thing is to take action when conditions are favourable.
Even so, great caution and consideration should be taken beforehand so that the outcome is clear before you make your move."
relates to the 'future' hex of "Centering in truth".
I take into consideration the CONDITION, JUDGEMENT and IMAGE of both the 'present' and 'future/transformed' hex but do not take into account any of the "degrees of change" from the second hex because the whole thing has already been changed.


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Edited by Lithop (07/19/23 10:52 AM)


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: syncro]
    #28400588 - 07/19/23 10:49 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

But you may be right that changing lines are only relevant in certain positions, not sure.

Looks like Lithop confirmed that.


Edited by syncro (07/19/23 10:52 AM)


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InvisibleLithop
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: syncro]
    #28400610 - 07/19/23 11:10 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
But you may be right that changing lines are only relevant in certain positions, not sure.

Looks like Lithop confirmed that.



Do you reckon I did?
Changing line in any position should be taken into consideration I believe. I might be misinterpreting your post, it's been known to happen :lol: You could throw a whole hexagrams worth of changing lines.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: syncro]
    #28400626 - 07/19/23 11:23 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

I reckoned it. :oldman: I thought you're saying you left that position of the nine, though a moving line, as in original, and took the transformation which to me seemed to confirm it in the hexes in the upper right corners of the cards. Only the fourth from the bottom was changed, whereas I figure the nine corresponds to the third from the bottom which was not transformed. :crazy2: As well I'm not clear on how you are identifying moving/changing lines from the numbers.


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Onlinesyncro
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Re: I have aTarot deck with a Mind of it's own [Re: syncro]
    #28400639 - 07/19/23 11:31 AM (6 months, 6 days ago)

OK, an attempt to clarify a little. What I meant was considering changing lines in the decision to consider the transformation of the hex. We don't always consider the transformation, since sometimes we don't get changing lines, and also we may not consider the transformation even if we do have changing lines.?


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