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Offlinesaintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut
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Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 584
Last seen: 7 months, 9 days
Guilt and Fear.
    #28327650 - 05/20/23 02:37 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

Help attack this directly, I'll take theory or something more practical. But these two Kleshas are ruining my life. Confession to an appropriate ear I've heard as and experienced as relief for Guilt, but what about Fear? I know Krishnamurti says Fear comes from thought and time, but discarding those two sounds liek the right solution, it's a little difficult. Any out there struggled with these two Kleshas? How do we overcome them? I'm struggling here! :tongue:


--------------------
"He who finds peace and joy
And radiance within himself
That man becomes one with God
And vanishes into God's bliss."

-Bhagavad Gita, 5.24
One 21 - Building Better Bombs
One 21 - Pacified
One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine
"Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti


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Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 3 minutes, 22 seconds
Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: saintdextro]
    #28327691 - 05/20/23 03:25 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

It wouldn't be possible to be here, under the ego, and not have them. Perhaps a trinity, guilt, fear, separation. Like the gateways of liberation, having one, having all; in this case ridding one, ridding all.

Shankara's words in the binding forces, now I'm forgetting how I aligned them with that in ACIM. He spoke of, iirc, veiling influence and binding influence, these I saw with separation as the veil, and guilt as the keeper of it.

In all these wisdoms imo, the cause and solution is the same, and with us it is in that which we know and can look to, love, unity, stillness, witness, service, in all their forms, again, embracing one, gaining all.


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Offlinesaintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut
Male


Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 584
Last seen: 7 months, 9 days
Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: syncro]
    #28327706 - 05/20/23 03:37 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

I might have to look into Shankara's philosophy in more depth, I don't quite understand what you mean?? you mentioned Service as a solution, that stands out in my mind, I got alot of free time but haven't used it to the fullest. (my failure in this regard has to with excessive tiredness, mental illness, drug addiction etc)


--------------------
"He who finds peace and joy
And radiance within himself
That man becomes one with God
And vanishes into God's bliss."

-Bhagavad Gita, 5.24
One 21 - Building Better Bombs
One 21 - Pacified
One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine
"Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Registered: 09/17/11
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Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: saintdextro]
    #28327718 - 05/20/23 03:49 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

Daily, I cringe under the power of fear and threat of pain. It becomes subconscious so we can enjoy.

Keeping it subconscious is the realm of newborns, for the rest of us it's a wrestling match.


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Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 3 minutes, 22 seconds
Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: saintdextro]
    #28327759 - 05/20/23 04:15 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

Service would be in the ways you can find it, out with people, or in internal abidance, etc. Abidance can be seen as most excellent service. In processing the body you do your part in that of the earth, in a way of seeing. In service, offer up the fruits. Even though we are greedy and what not, offer it all up including greed and all faults and deeds, fear, etc. It's a principle as in the Gita, etc., non-attachment to fruits, and do all things in Me, seek ye first. That for which work is done is returned in wisdom, healing, light, attaining the non-attainment.


Edited by syncro (05/20/23 04:16 PM)


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Offlinesaintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut
Male


Registered: 01/03/15
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Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28327761 - 05/20/23 04:18 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

Is it subconscious for new borns? or is it complete ignorance?


--------------------
"He who finds peace and joy
And radiance within himself
That man becomes one with God
And vanishes into God's bliss."

-Bhagavad Gita, 5.24
One 21 - Building Better Bombs
One 21 - Pacified
One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine
"Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesaintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut
Male


Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 584
Last seen: 7 months, 9 days
Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: syncro]
    #28327764 - 05/20/23 04:21 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Service would be in the ways you can find it, out with people, or in internal abidance, etc. Abidance can be seen as most excellent service. In processing the body you do your part in that of the earth, in a way of seeing. In service, offer up the fruits. Even though we are greedy and what not, offer it all up including greed and all faults and deeds, fear, etc. It's a principle as in the Gita, etc., non-attachment to fruits, and do all things in Me, seek ye first. That for which work is done is returned in wisdom, healing, light, attaining the non-attainment.




Beautiful post! I misread "Abidance" as if it was a new word, than googled "define abidance", glad I did! I think you are wise btw. :thumbup:


--------------------
"He who finds peace and joy
And radiance within himself
That man becomes one with God
And vanishes into God's bliss."

-Bhagavad Gita, 5.24
One 21 - Building Better Bombs
One 21 - Pacified
One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine
"Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 3 minutes, 22 seconds
Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: syncro]
    #28327776 - 05/20/23 04:32 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

A Course in Miracles addresses directly and uniquely, guilt and fear, guilt really. Fear is a given in it. If you like Christian lingo, and much of it is written in iambic pentameter; people can think it's too vague or such, and many terms are changed up in context.

Fundamentalists can oppose it due to the way it treats Biblical stuff, and it can be said to be close to Advaita.


Edited by syncro (05/20/23 04:42 PM)


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: saintdextro]
    #28327782 - 05/20/23 04:40 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

saintdextro said:
Is it subconscious for new borns? or is it complete ignorance?





Either way the subconscious protects from overwhelming accumulation in most cases.


Edited by Buster_Brown (05/20/23 04:42 PM)


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Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 3 minutes, 22 seconds
Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: syncro]
    #28327784 - 05/20/23 04:44 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

A Course in Miracles - and needless to say it is profound and effective if jiving with it.


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Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
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Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: syncro]
    #28327789 - 05/20/23 04:48 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

What was the veiling binding stuff in Shankara's work, CC? May have to look in the old thread. I may be mistaking the source but don't think so.


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Offlinesaintdextro
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Registered: 01/03/15
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Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: syncro]
    #28327790 - 05/20/23 04:50 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
A Course in Miracles address directly and uniquely, guilt and fear, guilt really. Fear is a given in it. If you like Christian lingo, and much of it is written in iambic pentameter; people can think it's too vague or such, and many terms are changed up in context.

Fundamentalists can oppose it due to the way it treats Biblical stuff, and it can be said to be close to Advaita.




I hear Eckhart Tolle read from, interpret and praise a course in miracles often, sounds like what I'm into, It's been a while since I bought a new book or been to the Library but the list of books I want is huge, so many must reads! plus l like the Upanishads commentaries lane I've been heading, and Buddhist stuff, and Christian stuff (Gnostic or traditional). I hope someday to get that book, a lot of people like it.


--------------------
"He who finds peace and joy
And radiance within himself
That man becomes one with God
And vanishes into God's bliss."

-Bhagavad Gita, 5.24
One 21 - Building Better Bombs
One 21 - Pacified
One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine
"Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 3 minutes, 22 seconds
Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: saintdextro]
    #28327805 - 05/20/23 04:55 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)



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Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 3 minutes, 22 seconds
Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: syncro]
    #28327810 - 05/20/23 05:00 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

Yes and Buddhist sources too. Guilt and fear addressed by them I wonder where to specify, but general teachings approach singular cause and solution. Content is ore for the crucible.


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Offlinesaintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut
Male


Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 584
Last seen: 7 months, 9 days
Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: syncro]
    #28327842 - 05/20/23 05:24 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
It also online, https://acim.org/acim/text/introduction/en/s/51?wid=toc&fwv=true.




it will be read thank you! just give me time I'm getting some sleep soon.


--------------------
"He who finds peace and joy
And radiance within himself
That man becomes one with God
And vanishes into God's bliss."

-Bhagavad Gita, 5.24
One 21 - Building Better Bombs
One 21 - Pacified
One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine
"Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesaintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut
Male


Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 584
Last seen: 7 months, 9 days
Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: saintdextro]
    #28327915 - 05/20/23 06:19 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

This is a good Ajahn Brahm talk on fear:

https://www.youtube.com/live/ymIPqrdbNz8?feature=share


--------------------
"He who finds peace and joy
And radiance within himself
That man becomes one with God
And vanishes into God's bliss."

-Bhagavad Gita, 5.24
One 21 - Building Better Bombs
One 21 - Pacified
One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine
"Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 3 minutes, 22 seconds
Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: saintdextro]
    #28327979 - 05/20/23 07:13 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

Excellent with the tiger and the mouse, and also teaching highschool, 1 year made him become a monk. :lol: still watching it


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Onlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 3 minutes, 22 seconds
Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: syncro]
    #28328031 - 05/20/23 08:09 PM (8 months, 4 days ago)

Good talk, fear is caring about the wrong thing. What about that which it steals? Peace. Care for that! Enjoyed the anecdotes.


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OfflineBeluga
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Registered: 08/14/22
Posts: 63
Last seen: 13 days, 14 hours
Re: Guilt and Fear. [Re: saintdextro]
    #28394828 - 07/13/23 09:53 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Guilt- stop the bad behavior, apologize to those whom you wrongfully hurt, and then engage in better behaviors moving forward.  You will suffer as much as you need to to expiate your guilt.  The punishments can be somewhat mitigated by taking responsibility, making amends, and changing your behavior.

Fear- do things you are afraid of.  Apologizing to those you have injured is a good start.  The fear will lessen the more you act in spite of it.

Fear is dependent on thought and time?  Uh, ok.  So is everything else in the physical world.  You need both time and thought to function here. 

And if you want to follow an Eastern philosophy and guru for a while, by all means, go ahead.  But no attachment, no suffering means no joy either.  The physical world is created because that state is boring and the All-consciousness needs more than just Oneness.  Oneness is the same as experiencing nothing at all.  Aspire to obliteration if you like, but you will be back anyway, whether you succeed or not.  Enjoying a mindless sleep in a hammock by the beach can seem awfully nice when you are suffering, but be careful what you wish for.  That hammock might be heavenly for an hour, but lay there for a day, or a week, and it turns into unbearable hell due to boredom.  You then go back to doing stuff.


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