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OnlinerxbS
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Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. * 1
    #28393385 - 07/12/23 10:34 AM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Sonia Sotomayor is using tax payer funded staffers to do work on her book promotion. they are organizing her speaking engagements for promotion of her books which directly benefit her personally.

now if she was on a lower court this would be a violation of a lower courts etical guidelines...

but because she is on the supreme court there are no ethical guidelines and she is free to use tax payer funded staffers for her own personal gain... to whatever end she so desires aparently.

i find this outragous, and improper, and i believe she should be removed from the bench to a lower court.


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[quote]Enlil said:
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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: rxb] * 1
    #28393421 - 07/12/23 11:11 AM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Yeah and you can find abuses by other justices that show this is a both sides issue.

End of the day it is not any worse than the inside trading exemption enjoyed by legislators who routinely benefit directly or indirectly through family members well timed stock moves.

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OnlinerxbS
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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #28393471 - 07/12/23 12:04 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Yeah and you can find abuses by other justices that show this is a both sides issue.

End of the day it is not any worse than the inside trading exemption enjoyed by legislators who routinely benefit directly or indirectly through family members well timed stock moves.




i dont think its so bad either, but we wouldnt allow a 5th circuit court judge to do it...

and i think it proves we need to enforce ethics codes in the scotus.


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: rxb]
    #28393501 - 07/12/23 12:39 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

What makes you think that SCOTUS justices operate under different rules than other federal judges?


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OnlinerxbS
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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: Enlil]
    #28393506 - 07/12/23 12:45 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
What makes you think that SCOTUS justices operate under different rules than other federal judges?




because its against the code of ethics to do what she did. you can get removed from the bench for that.


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[quote]Enlil said:
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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: rxb]
    #28393508 - 07/12/23 12:48 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

So what makes you think that same code of ethics doesn't apply to the SCOTUS?


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OnlinerxbS
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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: Enlil]
    #28393509 - 07/12/23 12:54 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So what makes you think that same code of ethics doesn't apply to the SCOTUS?




because john roberts says they don“t. why dont you know about this???

https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/05/05/who-should-enforce-a-code-of-conduct-on-the-supreme-court

Quote:

But the second problem is one you identified at the top of the program, which is that Congress has taken a sort of lighter approach when it comes to the Supreme Court. So the Supreme Court does not have a code of conduct that it follows. There's a federal statute that provides for discipline of lower federal court judges that violate that code or other ethical obligations. And that disciplinary mechanism does not apply to the Supreme Court. That statute excluded the Supreme Court. So Congress has given the Supreme Court wider berth, and I think it's now time to reconsider that.




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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

Edited by rxb (07/12/23 12:57 PM)

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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: rxb]
    #28393511 - 07/12/23 12:56 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

He can say whatever he wants, but all Article III judges have lifetime tenure.  All federal judges can be removed for misconduct.  This includes the SCOTUS.  Whether or not the particular "rules" apply is more of a question of enforcement.  If Congress wanted to impeach a SCOTUS justice, it could.


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OnlinerxbS
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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: Enlil]
    #28393517 - 07/12/23 01:03 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
He can say whatever he wants, but all Article III judges have lifetime tenure.  All federal judges can be removed for misconduct.  This includes the SCOTUS.  Whether or not the particular "rules" apply is more of a question of enforcement.  If Congress wanted to impeach a SCOTUS justice, it could.




as the quote above states... the ethics codes for the lower federal court does not apply ... specifically excludes the supreme court.

why would YOU not know that... since its been heavily in the news from the clearance thomas violations.


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: rxb]
    #28393521 - 07/12/23 01:08 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Since impeachment would be the only enforcement mechanism and that has already proven that it is not about right or wrong but what side of the fence you are on, they can do anything they want even if the ethic rules do apply.  Till they can't of course cause who knows about the future, but lets don't hold our breaths if we intend to see the future on this.  The dems might could agree to get SS but we would still have too many votes against to get the rest and so the incentive is unrealistic.  We used to tell management at work that if they had a posted rule that they did not enforce, it was not a rule until they informed the workforce they were going to start enforcing it.  I find it funny that they want roberts to do something cause try as I might, I don't understand what power he has to do anything.  He could set and example of himself but has not to this point.
Cheers
gww

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OnlinerxbS
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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: Enlil]
    #28393523 - 07/12/23 01:11 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

and here is the american bar association saying that the lower court code of ethics doesnt apply to them... as well

https://www.americanbar.org/advocacy/governmental_legislative_work/publications/washingtonletter/feb-23-wl/scotus-ethics-0223wl/


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: rxb]
    #28393526 - 07/12/23 01:13 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

I think you're missing the point.  If they did apply, who would enforce them?  Congress.  If Congress feels that a Justice has committed misconduct, rules or not, Congress can impeach him/her.


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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28393529 - 07/12/23 01:24 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I think you're missing the point.  If they did apply, who would enforce them?  Congress.  If Congress feels that a Justice has committed misconduct, rules or not, Congress can impeach him/her.




maybe we disagree on a key point....

i feel if there is a set of rules, or guidelines... which you say applies to a person or group in a position it is easier to bring them to a disciplinary hearing over a violation of those specific guidelines than it is for some vague notion of ĀØgood behavior"or ĀØlack of good behavior"


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[quote]Enlil said:
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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: rxb]
    #28393534 - 07/12/23 01:32 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

I think the rules apply and believe what you highlighted earlier is saying the punishment for those rules is what does not apply.  Both articles you posted are saying that to me. Of course they are also saying that some on the court have hinted they may interpret that different then historic action has. Congress could impeach based on rule violation but they will not be on the same page and will not act.
Cheers
gww

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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: gww]
    #28393536 - 07/12/23 01:37 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

gww said:
I think the rules apply and believe what you highlighted earlier is saying the punishment for those rules is what does not apply.  Both articles you posted are saying that to me. Of course they are also saying that some on the court have hinted they may interpret that different then historic action has. Congress could impeach based on rule violation but they will not be on the same page and will not act.
Cheers
gww




because the guidelines are specifically enumerated in the constitution the lower guidelines would be unconstitutional if they specifically applied to the supreme court for that you would require a amendment... which we really should get started on.


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[quote]Enlil said:
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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: rxb]
    #28393542 - 07/12/23 01:42 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

What you're discussing here isn't even really about the rules, though, is it?  If someone is using federal employees for personal business, that's illegal regardless of the position he/she holds, is it not?  I'm not sure this is an ethical issue anyway.


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OnlinerxbS
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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: Enlil]
    #28393557 - 07/12/23 01:53 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
What you're discussing here isn't even really about the rules, though, is it?  If someone is using federal employees for personal business, that's illegal regardless of the position he/she holds, is it not?  I'm not sure this is an ethical issue anyway.




i could concede that, i think its proof that the code of conduct should apply in a more official way to both the thomas and sodomayor situation... and i think we need an act of congress to make that happen.

but its clear we cant just count on justices to behave appropriately on their own accord.


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: rxb]
    #28393558 - 07/12/23 01:54 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

We can't count on anyone to behave appropriately on their own accord.  Truthfully, we can't count on anyone to behave appropriately even when given clear rules.  Without exception, people are savages.  Extinction is the only real solution.


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OnlinerxbS
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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: Enlil]
    #28393580 - 07/12/23 02:23 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
We can't count on anyone to behave appropriately on their own accord.  Truthfully, we can't count on anyone to behave appropriately even when given clear rules.  Without exception, people are savages.  Extinction is the only real solution.





clearer guidelines should make it less ambiguous to discipline


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[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: rxb]
    #28393609 - 07/12/23 03:13 PM (10 months, 1 day ago)

Should, but in this case wouldn't. Since Congress is the only one to discipline, the decision will always be political, so the guidelines wouldn't matter.


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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: Enlil]
    #28395121 - 07/14/23 08:11 AM (9 months, 30 days ago)

I'm not expecting much but next week the Senate Judiciary Committee will vote on a bill for Supreme Court code of conduct covering financial disclosure and recusal requirements. Even if they put it on the books how will it be enforced?

Now impeachment is easy if one party agrees and conviction is almost impossible. Seems like new rules have the same problem even with a lesser penalty, maybe something like censure.

The recusal part seems particularly appealing, and the threat of punishment could induce more recusals. But the whole thing seems unworkable. The financial part is dicey because everyone with positions of power is likely to abuse financial ethics and congress has to figure that tightening the rules on SCOTUS will eventually shine the same light back on them. Also, financial ethics are like income tax strategies employed by the wealthy; there's ways to get around the rules.

Edited by Brian Jones (07/14/23 08:12 AM)

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Re: Sonia Sotomayor engaged in misuse of government resources. [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28395205 - 07/14/23 09:37 AM (9 months, 30 days ago)

id like to see enforcement come from inside the court system... maybe even have a committee for ethics specifically formed by the courts to oversee all federal court ethical situations... could be used for consultation as well as mediation and adjudication :smile: and until it gets to be an out of control mess you could have retired judges handle it.


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. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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