|
MadMuncher


Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 8,423
|
Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick
#28393064 - 07/12/23 01:40 AM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
re: land ownership and acquisition.
dear enlil,
obviously land can not be owned but play along. how does a nation acquire land (other than violence)? are there established and respectable or even "lawful" processes for nations to acquire more land (other than violence)?
dearly,
-mm
|
Sulfurshelfsean
Defender of Cubes


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 1 hour, 24 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
#28393114 - 07/12/23 04:29 AM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
You can purchase land from other countries if they want to sell it I would think.
--------------------
   Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!
|
rxb
n00b-sabot



Registered: 08/24/13
Posts: 12,904
Loc: FREE PSYCHONAUTICA
Last seen: 9 hours, 44 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
#28393130 - 07/12/23 05:01 AM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sulfurshelfsean said: You can purchase land from other countries if they want to sell it I would think.
has infact happened
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
|
Milleresque
Stranger
Registered: 04/10/22
Posts: 477
Last seen: 11 hours, 34 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: rxb]
#28393150 - 07/12/23 05:39 AM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
Someone could also gift you a plot, such as an EMBASSY, or for political refuge, such as my five dozen slaves and 14 coconut junkie donkeys and I enjoy from a small volcanic atoll in the south pacific.
Nations could, earlier, also find land that wasn’t previously inhabited (such as my atoll) and claim it. Seals and gibbons couldn’t fight back.
But to be less frivolous, there’s such thing as land leases, foreign ownership through investment, et cetera. It’s quite commonplace.
-------------------- “Develop an interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.“ Henry Miller
|
Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 12,290
Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 9 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Milleresque]
#28393157 - 07/12/23 05:56 AM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
You could always acquire it from the natives who are not using it properly
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
|
rxb
n00b-sabot



Registered: 08/24/13
Posts: 12,904
Loc: FREE PSYCHONAUTICA
Last seen: 9 hours, 44 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Ice9] 1
#28393162 - 07/12/23 06:12 AM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ice9 said: You could always acquire it from the natives who are not using it properly

dont forget to trade them some beads.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
|
Sugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear



Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 13,102
Loc: OTD & ODD
Last seen: 8 hours, 58 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
#28393422 - 07/12/23 11:13 AM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher] 1
#28393455 - 07/12/23 11:44 AM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
Quote:
MadMuncher said: re: land ownership and acquisition.
dear enlil,
obviously land can not be owned but play along. how does a nation acquire land (other than violence)? are there established and respectable or even "lawful" processes for nations to acquire more land (other than violence)?
dearly,
-mm
Purchase, discovery, creation, and treaty.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
rxb
n00b-sabot



Registered: 08/24/13
Posts: 12,904
Loc: FREE PSYCHONAUTICA
Last seen: 9 hours, 44 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
#28393477 - 07/12/23 12:13 PM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
you can potentially annex land .... or the government level form of squatting....
this is ours now...deal with it. doesnt have to be forceful or civil sometimes its inbetween.
i guess we can file flag planting under this as well... like eddie izzards skit...
"we were here first"
"alreight where is your flag"
" well we dont have one"
"too bad, no flag no country...because of these rules that i have made up just now"
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
Edited by rxb (07/12/23 12:16 PM)
|
MadMuncher


Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 8,423
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: rxb]
#28393478 - 07/12/23 12:16 PM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
those are the only ways for a nation to acquire land legitimately? how is the treaty process supposed to work and are there any examples of treaty without violence? i realize these questions may be as much spiritual and/or philosophical as political but in the process of spiritual reawakening which is the return to the concept of oneness: the reverence and rememberance that all is One, survival demands abiding the rules like borders and fences and authority
Quote:
rxb said:
Quote:
Ice9 said: You could always acquire it from the natives who are not using it properly

dont forget to trade them some beads.
this is a metaphor for violence and so, illegitimate
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
#28393484 - 07/12/23 12:22 PM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
Treaties are just agreements. Most don't involve violence.
How does violence undercut legitimacy?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
MadMuncher


Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 8,423
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
#28393548 - 07/12/23 01:46 PM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said: Treaties are just agreements. Most don't involve violence.
can authority exist without violence (or threat of)?
Quote:
How does violence undercut legitimacy?
it is not on the list
•purchase •discovery •creation •treaty
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
#28393550 - 07/12/23 01:48 PM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
Violence can be a part of any of those things on the list, though. It doesn't have to be, but it can be. Besides, you specifically asked for a list of ways "other than violence." Violence is still a legitimate and viable way of acquiring and holding land.
Authority can exist without violence or threat thereof. Power requires violence or a threat of violence, however.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
MadMuncher


Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 8,423
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
#28393564 - 07/12/23 02:03 PM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
i was going to post that same thing 
do the rules apply or not? violence is against the rules. come on now
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
#28393565 - 07/12/23 02:05 PM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
|
|
What rules are you talking about? Rules are a social construct. They apply insofar as society chooses to apply them.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
MadMuncher


Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 8,423
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
#28393671 - 07/12/23 04:41 PM (10 months, 23 hours ago) |
|
|
yes enlil, lots of things are social constructs and we are all aware that it is just hocus pocus, thats like 4th grader stuff. if you dismiss the subject we will never get to the second page. we are not going to debate you on subjects that do not require opinions. the rules exist. try parking in your neighbors living room. try casually walking through a border checkpoint. power is the exemption; the rules exist, same rules that all nations/authorities are founded on. feel free to bring up a supportive example if you want
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
#28393684 - 07/12/23 04:48 PM (10 months, 22 hours ago) |
|
|
You can't just a priori determine that violence is against the rules. Nowhere on the planet is that the rule. You literally just made that up.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
MadMuncher


Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 8,423
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
#28393711 - 07/12/23 05:12 PM (10 months, 22 hours ago) |
|
|
not me some dutch guy Per the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution, federal statutes and treaties are equally regarded as "supreme law of the land". The legally binding nature of treaties under the Constitution has been consistently recognized by the courts; as early as 1796, the U.S. Supreme Court, in Ware v. Hylton, applied the Supremacy Clause for the first time in ruling that a treaty superseded conflicting state law. Although the Ware decision did not address the Treaty Clause explicitly, it held that both states and private citizens were bound to comply with the treaty obligations of the federal government, which was in turn bound to the "Law of Nations" with respect to honoring treaties. Vattel's work profoundly influenced the development of international law. In 2015 the United States Department of Defense published its Law of War Manual. Vattel is cited after Hugo Grotius and before Francis Lieber and Hersch Lauterpacht as a subsidiary means and an authority in determining the rules of law of war.
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
#28393715 - 07/12/23 05:20 PM (10 months, 22 hours ago) |
|
|
Nothing in there says violence is against the rules.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
MadMuncher


Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 8,423
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
#28393795 - 07/12/23 06:24 PM (10 months, 21 hours ago) |
|
|
does the paper say that swords are heavier than pens? answer using only hand gestures
|
Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 12,290
Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 9 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
#28393804 - 07/12/23 06:31 PM (10 months, 21 hours ago) |
|
|

calm down its a joke
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
|
Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 3 hours, 27 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
#28394997 - 07/14/23 05:12 AM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
MadMuncher said: re: land ownership and acquisition.
dear enlil,
obviously land can not be owned but play along. how does a nation acquire land (other than violence)? are there established and respectable or even "lawful" processes for nations to acquire more land (other than violence)?
dearly,
-mm
Purchase, discovery, creation, and treaty.
States do eminent domain. Does the federal government still do that? I could see legitimate reasons like interstate highways, and controversial cases for mining/energy. With the latter, it's frequently already federal land that that gets "rezoned" from protected natural areas to probably leased. Seems like small areas of land involved compared to the old days; parts of Alaska could be an exception.
Discovery in continental U.S. is about exhausted, and purchase for fair price is expensive.
3rd world is a different story (or maybe not). The governments may be that needy and/or corrupt. Not sure what the arrangements are, e.g., for destroying the Amazon rain forests.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
|
Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 3 hours, 27 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
#28395031 - 07/14/23 06:16 AM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said: Violence can be a part of any of those things on the list, though. It doesn't have to be, but it can be. Besides, you specifically asked for a list of ways "other than violence." Violence is still a legitimate and viable way of acquiring and holding land.
Authority can exist without violence or threat thereof. Power requires violence or a threat of violence, however.
Quote:
MadMuncher said: i was going to post that same thing 
do the rules apply or not? violence is against the rules. come on now
While some disagree, the state's monopoly on the legitimate use of force/violence is accepted. The exception would be when the state's own legitimacy is highly questioned. Political squabbles and culture war has people here questioning the government's legitimacy more than I can ever remember including the 1960's. But it's almost entirely just a conversation topic. Middle class decline or not, we have it way to good to challenge the system. That's a topic for another day.
I completely agree with Enlil's statement that power requires violence or the threat of violence. Although force might be a better term. The threat of imprisoning people may be just as effectively coercive as killing them. But the statement, authority can exist without violence or threat thereof, depends heavily on the word "can". Ultimately, I think, authority requires potentially forceful consequences to those defying authority.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Brian Jones]
#28395161 - 07/14/23 08:47 AM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Authority requires only authorization from those being governed by the authority. One can have the authority to decide who eats first, but that authority is wholly dependent on consent of the governed. If, however, someone refuses to comply, that authority may be meaningless without the power to enforce it.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
Sugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear



Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 13,102
Loc: OTD & ODD
Last seen: 8 hours, 58 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
#28395288 - 07/14/23 11:16 AM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Likewise resistance to power without means of countering force used to enforce it is meaningless.
Just ask the democratic resistance in Myanmar how important being able to 3d print firearms is to their survival
|
Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 12,290
Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 9 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
#28395352 - 07/14/23 12:17 PM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sugabearcrisp said: Likewise resistance to power without means of countering force used to enforce it is meaningless.
Gandhi disagrees. At a large enough scale civil disobedience can be effective.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
|
MadMuncher


Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 8,423
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
#28632830 - 01/24/24 04:56 AM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said:
Authority can exist without violence or threat thereof. Power requires violence or a threat of violence, however.
knowledge itself is power
|
MadMuncher


Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 8,423
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
#28632834 - 01/24/24 04:57 AM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sugabearcrisp said: Likewise resistance to power without means of countering force used to enforce it is meaningless.
Just ask the democratic resistance in Myanmar how important being able to 3d print firearms is to their survival
existence itself is resistance
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 43 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
#28632877 - 01/24/24 06:01 AM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
MadMuncher said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Authority can exist without violence or threat thereof. Power requires violence or a threat of violence, however.
knowledge itself is power
You can have several PHDs and a .50 cal taken to that smart noggin ends everything....when you can end someone's existence or imprison it perpetually, doesnt matter how smart you are. If we listened to knowledge and reason, wars would be fought with debates and debreiefs on what to do.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
|
MadMuncher


Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 8,423
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: SirTripAlot]
#28633910 - 01/24/24 11:41 PM (3 months, 21 days ago) |
|
|
i do not usually engage with terrorist sympathizers, but this is important and i want you to be heard. my statement holds true and is a supplemental correction and not an absolute contraindication to enlils statement (we were misinformed because so many have lied and the truth was hidden from us). what you are saying is antithetical to the sciences. not cool. try again if you want, let me know if you get stuck or need a supportive example
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
#28634095 - 01/25/24 07:30 AM (3 months, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
MadMuncher said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Authority can exist without violence or threat thereof. Power requires violence or a threat of violence, however.
knowledge itself is power
Knowledge certainly enhances power in many cases. I wouldn't agree that knowledge itself is power, though. Knowledge is simply one tool to exert power, not unlike the 50bmg SirTripAlot is so fond of. If unused, whether by pulling the trigger or giving the impression of being willing to pull the trigger, it has no inherent power at all.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 33,062
Loc: where?
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
#28634101 - 01/25/24 07:33 AM (3 months, 21 days ago) |
|
|
intelligence can also make you miserable. some 'power' 
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: mushboy]
#28634103 - 01/25/24 07:35 AM (3 months, 21 days ago) |
|
|
The most powerful have historically been very miserable people.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 43 minutes
|
Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
#28634147 - 01/25/24 08:27 AM (3 months, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
MadMuncher said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Authority can exist without violence or threat thereof. Power requires violence or a threat of violence, however.
knowledge itself is power
Knowledge certainly enhances power in many cases. I wouldn't agree that knowledge itself is power, though. Knowledge is simply one tool to exert power, not unlike the 50bmg SirTripAlot is so fond of. If unused, whether by pulling the trigger or giving the impression of being willing to pull the trigger, it has no inherent power at all.
And your packing heat Eagle? In the end, its the acceptance of seeing a modern art masterpiece left of someone on the ground (as a result of the ability) and the subservient/ consent to avoid such.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (01/25/24 09:14 AM)
|
|