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OnlineIce9
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
    #28393804 - 07/12/23 06:31 PM (10 months, 21 hours ago)

:growafuck:

calm down its a joke


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
    #28394997 - 07/14/23 05:12 AM (9 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

MadMuncher said:
re: land ownership and acquisition.

dear enlil,

obviously land can not be owned but play along.
how does a nation acquire land (other than violence)?
are there established and respectable or even "lawful" processes for nations to acquire more land (other than violence)?

dearly,

-mm



Purchase, discovery, creation, and treaty.




States do eminent domain. Does the federal government still do that? I could see legitimate reasons like interstate highways, and controversial cases for mining/energy. With the latter, it's frequently already federal land that that gets "rezoned" from protected natural areas to probably leased. Seems like small areas of land involved compared to the old days; parts of Alaska could be an exception.

Discovery in continental U.S. is about exhausted, and purchase for fair price is expensive.

3rd world is a different story (or maybe not). The governments may be that needy and/or corrupt. Not sure what the arrangements are, e.g., for destroying the Amazon rain forests.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
    #28395031 - 07/14/23 06:16 AM (9 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Violence can be a part of any of those things on the list, though.  It doesn't have to be, but it can be. Besides, you specifically asked for a list of ways "other than violence."  Violence is still a legitimate and viable way of acquiring and holding land.

Authority can exist without violence or threat thereof. Power requires violence or a threat of violence, however.




Quote:

MadMuncher said:
i was going to post that same thing :sword:

do the rules apply or not? violence is against the rules. come on now




While some disagree, the state's monopoly on the legitimate use of force/violence is accepted. The exception would be when the state's own legitimacy is highly questioned. Political squabbles and culture war has people here questioning the government's legitimacy more than I can ever remember including the 1960's. But it's almost entirely just a conversation topic. Middle class decline or not, we have it way to good to challenge the system. That's a topic for another day.

I completely agree with Enlil's statement that power requires violence or the threat of violence. Although force might be a better term. The threat of imprisoning people may be just as effectively coercive as killing them. But the statement, authority can exist without violence or threat thereof, depends heavily on the word "can". Ultimately, I think, authority requires potentially forceful consequences to those defying authority.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28395161 - 07/14/23 08:47 AM (9 months, 30 days ago)

Authority requires only authorization from those being governed by the authority.  One can have the authority to decide who eats first, but that authority is wholly dependent on consent of the governed.  If, however, someone refuses to comply, that authority may be meaningless without the power to enforce it.


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
    #28395288 - 07/14/23 11:16 AM (9 months, 30 days ago)

Likewise resistance to power without means of countering force used to enforce it is meaningless.

Just ask the democratic resistance in Myanmar how important being able to 3d print firearms is to their survival

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OnlineIce9
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #28395352 - 07/14/23 12:17 PM (9 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Likewise resistance to power without means of countering force used to enforce it is meaningless.




Gandhi disagrees.  At a large enough scale civil disobedience can be effective.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
    #28632830 - 01/24/24 04:56 AM (3 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:

Authority can exist without violence or threat thereof. Power requires violence or a threat of violence, however.






knowledge itself is power

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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #28632834 - 01/24/24 04:57 AM (3 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Likewise resistance to power without means of countering force used to enforce it is meaningless.

Just ask the democratic resistance in Myanmar how important being able to 3d print firearms is to their survival




existence itself is resistance

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
    #28632877 - 01/24/24 06:01 AM (3 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

MadMuncher said:
Quote:

Enlil said:

Authority can exist without violence or threat thereof. Power requires violence or a threat of violence, however.






knowledge itself is power





You can have several PHDs and a .50 cal taken to that smart noggin ends everything....when you can end someone's existence or imprison it perpetually, doesnt matter how smart you are. If we listened to knowledge and reason, wars would be fought with debates and debreiefs on what to do.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28633910 - 01/24/24 11:41 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

i do not usually engage with terrorist sympathizers, but this is important and i want you to be heard.
my statement holds true and is a supplemental correction and not an absolute contraindication to enlils statement (we were misinformed because so many have lied and the truth was hidden from us). what you are saying is antithetical to the sciences. not cool. try again if you want, let me know if you get stuck or need a supportive example

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: MadMuncher]
    #28634095 - 01/25/24 07:30 AM (3 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

MadMuncher said:
Quote:

Enlil said:

Authority can exist without violence or threat thereof. Power requires violence or a threat of violence, however.






knowledge itself is power



Knowledge certainly enhances power in many cases.  I wouldn't agree that knowledge itself is power, though.  Knowledge is simply one tool to exert power, not unlike the 50bmg SirTripAlot is so fond of.  If unused, whether by pulling the trigger or giving the impression of being willing to pull the trigger, it has no inherent power at all.



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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
    #28634101 - 01/25/24 07:33 AM (3 months, 21 days ago)

intelligence can also make you miserable. some 'power' :lol::suicide:

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: mushboy]
    #28634103 - 01/25/24 07:35 AM (3 months, 21 days ago)

The most powerful have historically been very miserable people.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Attn: Political Forum Residents; Cc: Enlil; chopstick [Re: Enlil]
    #28634147 - 01/25/24 08:27 AM (3 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

MadMuncher said:
Quote:

Enlil said:

Authority can exist without violence or threat thereof. Power requires violence or a threat of violence, however.






knowledge itself is power



Knowledge certainly enhances power in many cases.  I wouldn't agree that knowledge itself is power, though.  Knowledge is simply one tool to exert power, not unlike the 50bmg SirTripAlot is so fond of.  If unused, whether by pulling the trigger or giving the impression of being willing to pull the trigger, it has no inherent power at all.






And your packing heat Eagle? In the end, its the acceptance of seeing a modern art masterpiece left of someone on the ground (as a result of the ability) and the subservient/ consent to avoid such.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (01/25/24 09:14 AM)

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