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OfflinemotamanM
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Father Of Suspect Speaks
    #2839219 - 06/29/04 11:42 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=1970406&nav=0s3dODVG

Father Of Suspect Speaks


The Austin teen accused of stabbing nearly a dozen others at a Halloween party last year has yet to go before a judge.

Dustin McManus has been in jail nearly eight months now, but has never been brought into court. His father is at every scheduled hearing.

Mark McManus said his son Dustin is a good kid who made the unfortunate mistake of taking drugs that night causing him to hallucinate and spin off into a stabbing frenzy.

"He's very easy going, very lackadaisical, very laid back, very bright," Mark said.

The son Mark McManus describes as brilliant is a far cry from the violent teen police say stabbed nine people at a party with a switch blade.

"He had no alcohol in his blood or anything. It was hallucinogenic drugs and totally out of mind, out of body, out of spirit," Mark said.

It was the night Dustin turned 17. For reasons his father can't fathom, Dustin took hallucinogenic mushrooms, grabbed a knife and started swinging.

"It's sad to say the friend who drove him to this party that was unsupervised he actually stabbed because Dustin was going to cut his throat first and he tried to stop him. He didn't know what he was doing. He was totally out of his mind," Mark said.

The next day Dustin's father says his son still didn't know what was real and what was not.

"He couldn't believe it until he was on TV and finally saw his picture and naturally he went into a deep depression," Mark said.

Even the number of victims was unclear to him.

"He kept asking me how many three or four? I said, 'I don't know son, but I just want you prep yourself mentally and physically,'" Mark said.

Now Dustin is sitting in jail charged with a serious crime, but his father says this all a tragic accident by a 17-year-old honor student who's never even been in a fist fight.

"He's brilliant. I'm not just saying that cause he's my son. He really is. He's got academic merit awards and a big support group behind him," Mark said.

The next court hearing for Dustin McManus is July 6.


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: motaman]
    #2839250 - 06/29/04 11:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, ive never seen anyone react violently to mushrooms.


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OnlineLearyfan
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: motaman]
    #2840131 - 06/29/04 04:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

What a jerk.  :frown:





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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: motaman]
    #2840907 - 06/29/04 07:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

mushrooms won't make you violent, but they will bring out the violence and paranoia thats already in you... mebbe it wasn't even mushrooms... ive heard stories like that about people on angel trumpets..


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: baraka]
    #2841614 - 06/30/04 12:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

baraka said:
Wow, ive never seen anyone react violently to mushrooms.



I've seen it twice now. Both times involved first trips and bad settings. We all need to take this kind of thing very seriously as it can happen. IMO only people with a lot of experience tripping should ever even consider doing it in a public place like a party.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineAmanita_Muscaria
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: z@z.com]
    #2842525 - 06/30/04 05:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

www.igz.nl - Information of the Dutch Health Care

They published a risk report about magic mushrooms in 2000.

I can't find an Enlish translation and I don't understand Dutch, so I'm translating a few parts from a norwegian version of the report.



2.1 The risk for the persons health
1) The risk of physical dependence
Physical dependence does not occur with use of psychoactive mushrooms
[1. none 1.1|2. small|3.possible|4.big|very big]

...

13) The risk for the drug to reduce the users treshold for use of violence
When a anxiety and panic attack is occuring, the user can react aggressive if adressed (by a competent authority).
[1. none 1.7|2. small|3.possible|4.big|very big]

...

(...)The risk for the public health is estimated as low. The drug does affect response time (e.g. driving skills) of the user in a negative way, but there is no reduction in the users treshold for use of violence(....)



Quantitative and qualitative summary
(...)
Risk category Points
I. The health of the individual 1.8 - no risk
II. The public's health 2.9 - low risk
III. Public order and safety 2.5 - low risk
IV. Engagement in criminal activities 1.8 - no risk

Totally 9.0 points.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: Amanita_Muscaria]
    #2842547 - 06/30/04 05:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

While the general risk seems low, it is still possible and it does happen, as we can clearly see by the above and similar reports of it happening.


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: Amanita_Muscaria]
    #2845369 - 06/30/04 11:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't mean to imply that it was a huge risk, but everytime it does happen it makes all of us look bad.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflinemotamanM
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Halloween Stabbing Case Going To Trial [Re: motaman]
    #3312945 - 11/03/04 06:50 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=2509225&nav=0s3dSdtd

11/01/04 - 5:13 pm
Halloween Stabbing Case Going To Trial

He's accused of stabbing several people one year ago on Halloween. Now, Dustin McManus will soon have to face a jury.

McManus is charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. It's alleged he stabbed some of his friends at a Halloween party in 2003. A jury was picked Monday afternoon.

Police believe McManus took hallucinogenic mushrooms before the incident took place. The stabbings happened at an unsupervised Halloween party for high school students.

At the time witnesses told police they thought it was a Halloween prank until the saw blood, and people falling down.

Now a year later, McManus will finally face a jury. In a previous interview, his father told KXAN it's the last place he expected to see his son.

For now, McManus is only facing trial for six of the nine charges against him.

If convicted, McManus could face two to 20 years on each charge, but the sentence would run concurrently.


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: Amanita_Muscaria]
    #3317332 - 11/03/04 11:33 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Too bad that report is not in English as well, looks pretty informative and would make a good reference.


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: motaman]
    #3318450 - 11/04/04 04:22 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

mushrooms aren't for halloween parties, unless you damn well know what you are doing.


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: TODAY]
    #3321355 - 11/04/04 08:54 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

oh man I can only imagine what kind of crazy stuff that kid must have been hallucinating at a Halloween party! No wonder he went nuts


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OfflineAnnoA
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Guilty Verdicts Returned In Halloween Stabbing Trail [Re: motaman]
    #3324263 - 11/05/04 01:38 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=2524690&nav=0s3dSmik

After deliberating for more than six hours, a jury says an Austin teen is guilty of stabbing people at a Halloween party last year.

Dustin McManus was on trial for stabbing six Austin High School students with a switchblade.

The victims were cut in their backs, hands, necks and stomachs.

The defense says the attacks happened after the teenager took hallucinogenic mushrooms, but also says the verdict is no surprise.

Even though he was being tried for six assaults, the jury declared a mistrial on one of the counts against McManus.

The punishment phase got underway Thursday night.

McManus could face two to 20 years in prison. He's also eligible for probation.


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Offlinebongtokinnun
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: motaman]
    #3330124 - 11/07/04 12:58 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

YO YO YO I know dustin mcmanus. No kiddin. I know his brother a lot better but i knew them all the way through school. First, to clear things up for some of ya'll that think he mighta been on different drugs or whatever. He was ONLY on shr00mz.No booze even. Maybe a little bit of pot but i think we all know that doesnt count. Im not saying that they will make you violent but they can make you temporarily insane. Which can be fun for most people. For others it can RUIN their lives. He'll be sentenced in the next couple of days and he's lookin at 2 to 20 years. He's ALL OVER Austin news. He RUINED his life in one night.Im not hatin on shr00mz (I take em all the time to be honest). But you need to respect the fact that if you're REALLY trippin out you will be insane while doing so.SMOKE DRINK AND FUCK THE POLICE


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Invisibleveggie

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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: motaman]
    #3332069 - 11/08/04 04:03 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Teen convicted of assaults with deadly weapon
By Becky Moseley
dailytexanonline.com
11/8/04

A Travis County jury convicted Dustin McManus on Thursday of five counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. McManus turned 17 years old the day before the crimes and was tried as an adult.

McManus, a former student at Bowie High School, was accused of stabbing six people at a Halloween party in 2003. His lawyer said before the stabbing, McManus ate mushrooms that caused him to hallucinate, according to the Austin American-Statesman. The Statesman said the party was at the 200 block of Lacey Avenue, west of MoPac, and none of the stabbings were fatal.

"Hallucinogens, like mushrooms, distort your whole sense of reality," said Chuck Roper, coordinator of the Alcohol and Drug Education Program at University Health Services. "This can be either profoundly enlightening or extremely overwhelming,"

According to Roper, the two psychoactive chemicals in hallucinogenic mushrooms are psilocybin and psilocyn. After ingestion, the peak effects of the drugs are usually seen within two hours and can last up to six hours.

Roper said there is no way to tell whether a certain mushroom will bring a good or a bad trip, or how potent it will be.

"Violence is usually associated more with drugs like PCP, and it is rare that mushrooms could cause a violent outburst," Roper said. "Mushrooms usually cause someone to withdraw from social situations and reality in general. However, they could make you paranoid, which could result in a violent outburst."

The sentencing phase of the McManus trial is now under way, according to the district clerk's office. If the jury finds that McManus was unable to tell right from wrong during the stabbings, he could serve a lesser sentence.


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Offlineivi
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: motaman]
    #3332745 - 11/08/04 11:43 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

motaman said:
It was the night Dustin turned 17




:mad:


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OfflineGenius
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: ivi]
    #3333434 - 11/08/04 03:15 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

baraka said:
Wow, I've never seen anyone react violently to mushrooms.




OK so there are always going to be cases were some one does a drug and gets violent. This is the first I have herd of something like this happening to a person on shrooms.

But turn on cops :smirk: Look at the legal drug alcohol and how many times a person gets drunk and beats there wife or kills another person. I very large number of murders and violent acts happen while people are drunk, far more then shrooms.


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Offlineshwowsh
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: motaman]
    #3335477 - 11/09/04 01:33 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

When I heard about this incident, I didn't know what to think, due to a certain situation that I am dealing with. Last spring break, I did a very fucked up thing (not nearly as fucked up as stabbing close to a dozen people though). I took 5 grams of mushrooms, smoked a J, and was hoping to have a meaningful trip... I was at my house by myself when I consumed these substances. Previous to that trip, I had taken mushrooms 4-6 times previously, having had a 4 gram dose 2 times, and lesser doses before that. I thought that I was ready to take 5 grams by myself. I would later meet with some friends to jam while tripping, but that never happened. What did happen, is that I was in my house, and things took a turn for the worst. I started to have some intense anxieties come over me, (after reflecting on the whole incident in the months afterwords, I've come to attribute what happened to the setting I poorly chose and some strong emotional instabilities having to do with my family being mormon, and me not believing or agreeing with that religion). I suddenly became very enraged. Its hard to describe exactly what happened, but if I had to try and say what happened, I would say that I very quickly entered into a state of intense anger, depression, desperation, and distress all at once. If we use the analogy that psychedelics can open the doors in you mind, and "unlock" deeper more meaningful thoughts, I could say that it was as if the mushrooms opened the doors and "unlocked" my subconscious, including all of my emotional feelings about being raised mormon, finding out for myself that it wasn't true (note: if you don't know anything about mormonism, it is a very negative, damaging, and harmful religion for many aspects. see www.exmormon.org for personal accounts from tons of ex-mormons on why this religion fucks with people bad), and a variety of subconscious feelings about my life in general. So I go into this undeniably enraged state, and I was not thinking straight, obviously. I grabbed my car keys, bolted out of the front door slamming it behind me, and got in my car. I floored it down my street with thoughts of suicide?/desperation racing through my mind. Sometimes when you feel like your situation is just so helpless, you feel like any kind of change, any whatsoever is the only answer. You can go into a state of mind that you just want something to get so fucked up that it changes something, anything. Its a sad situation when people can feel this way, get so distressed with life. Normally, from day to day, people can deal with these feelings and keep them in check, supressed. I was tripping, and all of the normal regulations of actions went right out the window. The road was a little wet, and it was about 11:00 am. I slam on the breaks because I realized how fast i was going, my car spun, and I hit a mailbox, and my car rested against the curb (7 months later, i don't think i'll ever be as thankful that a mailbox stopped my car before I could have done something horrible). I'm not sure how long I was sitting there, before neighbors were out in the yards, the one whose house I was directly in front of, asking me if I was ok. I said that no, I was not fucking ok. I wasn't physically hurt, but I was not ok. I snapped the turn signal right off the dash. I proceeded to scare the shit out ov everyone that was outside, screaming and hitting the steering wheel. I was just flipping out, which i continued to do in the middle of my street. I'm pretty sure someone called 911 by then. after pacing around like a fucking psycho on the edge, I took off running back up my street, not entirely sure what was going through my mind. Next, I decided to dive through the windshield of a parked Explorer. I didn't actually get "through" the window, but i smashed it none the less. So i laid on the hood of the car for a short while, thinking I might have died on impact. This is where I started to have very profound thoughts, but it was a little late for that. I ran back down the street towards my car, I was still going nuts. I grabbed the metal flag of a mailbox, and shook the whole thing violently until I ripped it off. Maybe I was thinking it would have been a nice sharp object to thrust into myself, I don't know. Then at that precise moment, I was forced to the ground at gunpoint by two cops, screaming at me. fast forward more insanity, I'm handcuffed in the back of the cop car, when I decide to kick out the passenger side window with both feet, repeatedly slamming my feet at the door. I get pulled out of there pretty fast, and had additional leg restraints added, while they threatened to mace me. After all was over, I was arrested for two counts of criminal mischief (misdemeanor A for the cop car window, misdemeanor B for the explorer windshield) and a DWI/drugs (misdemeanor B).

While I feel that hallucinogens, such as mushrooms can be beneficial, and produce good experiences that might not be as available without their help, I'm not sure what to think of this. I know that most people on this board are in favor of consuming mushrooms, and would swear that they are not dangerous, or that they can cause violence. Now, McManus' claim is, that he didn't know that he did it, that he remembered none of it, and basically that it never would have happened if he hadn't been on them. What are your reactions to this perspective? I think what he did is horrible, and that he really has no excuse. on the other hand, I can't help but feel, reflecting on my own experience, that such irrational behaviour was in some way due to hallucinating on mushrooms. Was what I did accetable behaviour? Were either of our actions justifiable? they aren't really comparable in magnitude, because I didn't harm anyone else, but what am I supposed to think of all this? The experience has changed me a bit, I've learned from the experience. Should I ever consider doing mushrooms again? Was it almost completely the wrong setting that turned the situation?

Someone tell me why mushrooms can be so contradictory, and why people can just shrug it off? What should people think about things like this?

Sincere responses appreciated.


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InvisibleSuper_Blunt
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: shwowsh]
    #3335487 - 11/09/04 01:36 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Father Of Suspect Speaks [Re: shwowsh]
    #3338770 - 11/09/04 09:14 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Your and his reactions are not the norm, IMHO. As you said, you had some mental instability from a troubled family/spiritual atmosphere. I'm certain that there is some underlying trigger that sparked the Halloween stabber into action.

I'm beginning to believe that the obscurity of psychedelics has been the best thing for the subculture. Obscurity kept the potentially world shattering distortions from being happened upon by people who didn't at least spend a great deal of time searching for it or who knew people who had experience in the same.

As it stands now, any Tom, Dick, and Harry can find, grow or buy shrooms and experience their beauty or discover the hard way that they are not ready for what the mushrooms bring. Legalization and regulation could help to protect would be explorers, but that is highly unlikely to ever occur.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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