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InvisibleRhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher
Other


Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: doolhoofd] * 2
    #28114623 - 12/27/22 10:55 PM (1 year, 30 days ago)

I'm not familiar with those quotes... Are they talking about statistical error? I'm intrigued...

I'm glad we're on the same page regarding these topics :grin:


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:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


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Invisibledoolhoofd
doolhoofd.com
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Registered: 12/22/22
Posts: 353
Loc: Dorsia
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #28114963 - 12/28/22 10:37 AM (1 year, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Rhizomorph said:
I'm not familiar with those quotes... Are they talking about statistical error? I'm intrigued...



No, just, veeeeeery generally, about the entire planet. Maybe even the entire universe.

Quote:

Rhizomorph said:
I'm glad we're on the same page regarding these topics :grin:



And so am I, random stranger from the interweb! :grin:


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Penny: 'What are you and Professor FussyFace up to tonight?'
Leonard: "Star Wars on Blu-ray."
Penny: 'Haven't you seen that movie like, a thousand times?'
Leonard: "Not on Blu-ray. Only twice on Blu-ray."
Penny: 'Oh, Leonard...'
Leonard: "I know. It's high-resolution sadness."
- The Big Bang Theory, S07E09


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Offlineoursoulsinmotion
πŸ΅πŸ™ˆπŸ™‰πŸ™Š
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Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Rhizomorph] * 2
    #28114990 - 12/28/22 11:12 AM (1 year, 30 days ago)

This thread pisses me off for some reason?


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β˜†


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OfflineBardy
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Registered: 04/02/14
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Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: oursoulsinmotion] * 1
    #28115212 - 12/28/22 02:52 PM (1 year, 30 days ago)

Quote:

oursoulsinmotion said:
This thread pisses me off for some reason?




:facepalm: :ilold:


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OfflineTBRS1
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Registered: 10/01/22
Posts: 12
Last seen: 4 months, 15 days
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Bardy] * 3
    #28131911 - 01/09/23 09:11 AM (1 year, 18 days ago)

Couple things...

I want mushrooms freely available to anybody who wants them for rec, med, etc. Catching a hard buzz is a basic human desire.

I don't have much to say about cultural appropriation. It is rude to steal, but knowledge is a human right. What one person knows, another can learn: I'm not Jewish, but I like bagels. I can even make them.  Have I appropriated Jewish culture, or have our cultures engaged in a mutually beneficial trade of information?

I'm a capitalist, and I have no problem with the fact that everything can be monetized. This is like Karma - it will happen no matter how you feel about it. Clearly, though, this can be more, or less exploitive.

I prefer less, but there are people who actually like being exploited (weird, I know, but still true). Being a rube can be fun for a short time, but I, personally, don't enjoy it as a lifestyle. To each their own, though.

That's why we have organized religion.

What really, really does scare me, though, and needs consideration is the whole "using drugs to manipulate or scam vulnerable people who experience horrible mental pain and are searching, desperately, for relief."

Any relief.

These people don't need some manipulative narcissist fucking their head, under the guise of some b.s. spiritual healing.


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Terran Biological Research Station - 1
Learning to survive amongst humans in their natural environment.


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OfflineBardy
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Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: TBRS1] * 2
    #28132269 - 01/09/23 01:53 PM (1 year, 18 days ago)

Yeah I’m not sure I understand the concern about cultural appropriation. It’s a strange concept to me. We’re all mixed race, and all our cultures are a conglomeration of other cultures over time.


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InvisibleRhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher
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Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: TBRS1] * 1
    #28134439 - 01/10/23 08:55 PM (1 year, 16 days ago)

Quote:

TBRS1 said:I don't have much to say about cultural appropriation. It is rude to steal, but knowledge is a human right. What one person knows, another can learn: I'm not Jewish, but I like bagels. I can even make them.  Have I appropriated Jewish culture, or have our cultures engaged in a mutually beneficial trade of information?




Where and how is power being used in this relationship? Is it being used in a way that is harmful, prevents harm/promotes cultural & individual wellbeing & autonomy, or is it neutral? As I discussed before, the harms of cultural appropriation are context dependent; in the article I shared before this depends on whether, for example, misrecognition occurs, which marginalizes legitimate cultural representations in favour of dominant inaccurate representations. cultural autonomy - being dialetically related to politics and the tangible social consequences that subsume them - is objectively characterized by these contexts.

Please don't think I'm saying that all types of appropriation are harmful. But we can't act like many forms are not given the way social power is leveraged. You're not the first person in this thread to offer up a form of appropriation that is not harmful as though this somehow suggests other forms of appropriation are not; someone else already asked if learning another language was harmful. Please read the thread history:super:

Quote:

TBRS1 said:
I'm a capitalist, and I have no problem with the fact that everything can be monetized




Including the commodification of basic human rights including our utmost privacy? (think of big data as it pertains to ensuring the pillars of liberal democracies & the safety of individuals), subsistence needs, etc.? Bear in mind that more than just physical entities are monetized. I'm not sure if this is what you meant by "everything" or not, but nowadays economies are monetizing cultural & knowledge production, electronic data, and overall, non-corporeal forms of social control through decentralized, horizontally integrated global supply chains. A purist neoliberal agenda of the sort you mention is counterproductive in achieving the liberal ideals underpinning the very same ideology (I.e., maximizing freedom).


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:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


Edited by Rhizomorph (01/10/23 08:59 PM)


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OfflineRP3
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/10/23
Posts: 10
Loc: Nowhere Land
Last seen: 12 days, 5 hours
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #28357988 - 06/13/23 06:18 AM (7 months, 11 days ago)

I agree with ya, I don't want to see the pharmacutical companies and corporations get their hands on these substances because they are only worried about money and not the well being of the user. Lucky for us, the illegality of entheogens violates the first amendment by means of being an impingement and hindrance on the free excersize of religion, once the right person realizes this they won't be able to keep it for themselves because everyone will have access to it. After reading this though I'm going to do quite a bit more contemplating on how these issues could be solved as well, I've already seen some pretty reasonably good sounding ideas for solutions, you do in fact raise valid concerns. (It violates the first amendment in that way due to 6000 years of documented religious use minimum, which I believe if we could use this fact to our advantage, we could keep it out of the corporations and what not and place direct access to everyone because if everyone already has it then there's really no money to be made from it in the first place nor will there be a need to gravitate to a particular group because any group from any walk of life will be able to have it. Then again I want to be careful saying that, there should definitely be some laws prohibiting groups or individuals who are known influencers of violence and hatred from possessing these substances for the simple fact of what you mentioned about being more vulnerable under the influence of psychoactives as there would be a significant risk of manipulation to commit violence, for example if say a white supremacist group was discovered performing some sort of brain washing teqnique of some sort for the purposes of violence or some sort of sadistic/blatantly evil manipulation that should be automatic life imprisonment. Also, making it illegal for influencers of violence or other evils to posses these substances may actually be effective because if it legal to do it outside of that sort of environment then why would people want to gravitate to an environment/group that would make the use of these substances illegal. There's a lot of angles that would need to be covered related to this, but I think and hope I've gotten my point across. If I am missing the point or my idea is flawed in anyone else's opinion please let me know of any thoughts or concerns)


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"They say money can't buy you happiness, but id rather cry in a dodge challenger than on the sidewalk"
Zombie
"When working with psychedelic substances, you must always start with yourself"
Dr. Albert Hofmann (1906-2008, Rest in peace)
Any questions/posts asked/posted by myself are purely, 100%  hypothetical and/or make-believe and do not state fact or any current events in any form.


Edited by RP3 (06/13/23 07:29 AM)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: RP3] * 2
    #28359432 - 06/14/23 10:44 AM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Why do legalization advocates always try to sneak it in under the guise of something else? I wanna get high for fun, not because of some Jesus bullshit.

Similarly, I don't want to arbitrarily ban some drugs but not all drugs, I have no problem with legal meth. Hell, legal meth is probably better than illegal meth. I think that might have been in your other post, though.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Kryptos]
    #28360159 - 06/14/23 08:51 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Probably because more people are open to the idea of allowing use for religious purposes than for recreational purposes. There have actually been some court rulings in favor of a right to religious use of entheogens.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Kizzle] * 3
    #28360219 - 06/14/23 09:33 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Partly a requested response, which I might have made so short it comes off as flippant. I don't mean it that way. I think this is a fundamental mental block among drug users that needs to be overcome.

Here is my thought process on various ways of "sneaking" legalization:

If I say "I want to get high because my god says I should get high" then every fucking religious scholar on the planet is gonna be like "well, you're misinterpreting this and that and blah blah" and honestly, I'm somewhat informed about religion, but I don't think I'm well versed enough to beat back literally every religious argument ever.

Similar for medical reasons. "I want to get high because it helps the [condition]" just leads to a whole lot of debate on whether I have [condition], how bad [condition] is, other possible medicines to treat [condition], etc.

However, if I say "I wanna get high because I wanna get high", then Mr. anti-drug is gonna have to go ahead and argue that I do not have the right to do what I want in my own free time because...what? I don't have the right to self-determination? Haha, fuck you bitch. Try telling people they do not have the right to determine how they live their own lives. See how that goes.

When you try to sneak drug legalization through under the guise of something else, it disarms you. I don't want to debate the medicinal value of smoking weed, I do not care about the medicinal value of smoking weed. If I'm being completely honest, I do not think that weed has a net positive medicinal value. Same thing with religion. I don't want to debate my religious right to smoke weed. I do not have any religion, and I don't want to pretend I do religion only to smoke weed.

What I would like to do is smoke weed. Not because it is medicine, not because it is part of m,y religion, but because that's what I wanna fucking do. If you disagree, you're gonna have to go ahead and prove to me that how I decide to spend my time is not only your business, but important enough that you get to veto how I spend my time and health. And that is not something that you can do without looking like an authoritarian fool.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
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Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Kryptos]
    #28360249 - 06/14/23 10:12 PM (7 months, 9 days ago)

amen


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28363047 - 06/17/23 08:31 AM (7 months, 7 days ago)

All I want to do is get high
I don't know how
I don't know why
all I know is I want o get high
you look at me
you wonder why
all I know is
I want to get high


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InvisibleRhizomorph
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Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28388400 - 07/07/23 12:58 PM (6 months, 18 days ago)

To me it's all fair game as long as we come from an intersectional lens; that is, working from each angle conjointly to complement each perspective. One-dimensional resistance efforts that only represent one or few groups is the issue, which can occur in any one of cognitive, religious, or medical liberties if we only advocate for them independent of each other.

I agree that cognitive liberty (the right to self-determination in this context) should be more central to our efforts for the reasons you suggest.

That doesn't mean we should not have religious or medical protections in place too. These protections involve not just drug access, but access in conjunction with medical services, resources, etc. as well as ceremonial uses, and certainly some Indigenous protections for some psychedelics (e.g., peyote which is being poached by Westerners and reducing the supply for the Huichol people in Mexico). Cognitive liberty alone won't address these unique issues where psychedelics intersect with medicine/religion.

Keep in mind that the majority of psychedelic users are using for both recreational and therapeutic/medical purposes, according to research.

We just need to be extremely precise in calling out bullshit when the calls to religious and medical freedom remove cognitive liberty from it's rightful seat at the table.

Intersectionality is key :grin:

Loving the thoughtful discussion breathing some new life into this thread. Psychedelic justice = so many different forms of justice :awesomenod:


Edited by Rhizomorph (07/07/23 01:06 PM)


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