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Offlinemorrowasted
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Speed reading is bullshit and piecing together the Brain puzzle: Memory, Information Theory, Biochemistry, Neuropshysiosnatomy
    #28387913 - 07/07/23 04:16 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

I used to feel like a slow reader but I couldn't really help but suspect that some of the people claiming to read as fast as they were were not really reading for comprehension. There is 'speed getting", and the more you read the speedier you can 'get' what you read, but you never literally read faster- or the moment you do, the less you'll start to 'get'. Whatever is truly gotten is not easily, if ever. forgotten in my experience.

"
Quote:

Summarizing decades of research in an article published in 2016, an all-star team of cognitive scientists and linguists specializing in reading ability and visual perception debunked both of these speed reading tenets.

First, how human vision works, including the very structure of the eye, simply doesn’t allow us to see words on the periphery of our visual field with enough clarity to fully take in their meaning. Thus, the notion that whole blocks of words can be understood at a glance is nonsensical. Moreover, experiments have repeatedly shown that speed readers’ peripheral vision is no better than normal readers’. It can’t be trained.

Second, silencing one’s inner reading voice can permit one to intake text more quickly, but it seems to come at the expense of comprehension. Sounds are key to language, so translating visual information into phonological (sound) form, even just in one’s head, is necessary for complete understanding of written words."





Even when I take notes today, whether during report at work or when just trying to understand something at home for 'fun', they basically always consist of a bunch of arrows and abbreviations of words or concepts. If I want to show it to somebody else I'll make it look pretty but- for me- the aesthetic is irrelevant and arbitrary.

My opinion:

The deepest way to get a text is to read it and then re write it in your own words. Do not copy anything, that doesn't count. I've seen so many people write up beautiful, colorful, notes that are hardly more than selected word for word quotations arranged in a more aesthetically pleasing way struggle hard when test time arrived.

My notes from school look like a garbled mess of arrows and made up words and letters. After a few months people picked up on the fact that I was doing really well on all the tests and started asking me if they could have copies of my notes. I sort of chuckled and said yeah you can have copies of them but I'm not sure how much good they're going to do you. They would take a look at them and immediately pass them back.

Even if the original textbook is already just a bunch of arrows and unusual symbols, as in many engineering, chemistry, or physics, textbooks, the best way to get it is to take multiple diagrams and piece them together in a way the book doesn't. Maybe you have a diagram of the spinothalamic tracts and a diagram of the corticothalamic tracts and a diagram about EEGs and 'brainwaves'. Shove them all together in whatever way makes the most sense you. If you don't like arrows, use something else- you can concoct an entirely new symbol set; the internal consistency and the directionality is all that matters for the sake of getting it as long as the set of symbols you make is large enough to map those in the source text.

When you compress a file (like .ZIP) it, this is essentially what happens- the ZIP file 'gets' the original file by removing redundant bits from it. In the same way your brain gets a memory by pruning redundant synapses; a baby has far the most synapses and the least memory by far. The brain "ZIP"s an experience in the act of pruning grey matter synapses and 'outsourcing' them to white matter, which, I'm now suspecting already contains the total set of possible experiences in 3D space.

A novel is not a novel if it isn't novel:
ένα μυθιστόρημα δεν είναι μυθιστόρημα αν δεν είναι μυθιστόρημα ('éna mythistórima den eínai mythistórima an den eínai mythistórima') -->
un roman nu este roman dacă nu este roman <-- novum non est novum si non est novum

(map of relations between Greek, Romanian and latin)


Edited by morrowasted (07/07/23 08:08 AM)


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Neuroscience shows that speed reading is bullshit- On 'Getting it' [Re: morrowasted]
    #28387924 - 07/07/23 04:25 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Please correct my ZIP/brain/memory analogy if it is wrong, RGV


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Neuroscience shows that speed reading is bullshit- On 'Getting it' [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #28387992 - 07/07/23 05:49 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

the zipping and pruning thing is not happening,

however I totally agree with how you describe reading and getting it by putting all the diagrams together in your own way.

Note, the fact that you do not seem to remember details from when you were younger than three is related to access to the memory engrams. Few cues in adult life mirror the sets of neurons that are stimulated when you are in diapers, but if you work it, you will get it.
What kind of diapers were in use, what kind of powders, or creams, what kind of dressers... eventually you can find your way to some gems of memory that are quite smelly.

I also felt that speed reading was not speed reading at all, I am glad you mentioned it - instead it seems to be surveying while scanning for a small set of particular passages.

One Provincial Court Judge I know speed reads cases and law, but what is actually happening is not the same as when she reads a novel and enjoys the story.

Some types of publications have a set of stories embedded, and one can glom quickly to abstract some essences, but a slow methodical read can tell the whole saga.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Neuroscience shows that speed reading is bullshit- On 'Getting it' [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28388037 - 07/07/23 06:40 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:


the zipping and pruning thing is not happening,




any elaboration? Now that I'm reviewing the demarcation between gray matter and white matter, the analogy does look wrong

Do you know how file compression works? I'm an amateur but I dabbled. I know you hate concepts like entropy but if we apply information theory principles it seems the process occurring whereby perception/sensation and related engram (persistence/strength) involves sifting through the total information input to compress it, as with taking multiple diagrams and compressing the information they contain into one. Forgive me if I'm wasting your time but I am really trying here



https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fninf.2021.596443/full



Quote:

When choosing this way of calculating entropy, the choice of the compression algorithm becomes critical as the compressed signal must be the smallest possible in order to represent the entropy of the original signal. It is of course possible to craft its own compression algorithm [see London et al. (2002)], but thankfully this application has been broadly used in the domain of informatics, in order to compress text and images efficiently on the hard drive of a computer or before sending data through a network. In particular, this led to the development of two principal entropy-coding compression algorithms: the Huffman coding algorithm (Huffman, 1952) and the Lempel–Ziv–Storer–Szymanski algorithm (Ziv and Lempel, 1977; Storer and Szymanski, 1982), both used to compress text and image files. This Lempel-Ziv algorithm and its variants are the main tools for the estimation of entropy from data compression (Benedetto et al., 2002; Baronchelli et al., 2005; Avinery et al., 2019; Martiniani et al., 2019).

Portable Network Graphics (or PNG, see specifications at https://www.w3.org/TR/PNG/ or http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/) is a graphic file format supporting lossless data compression. Its high versatility and fidelity made it widely used for saving and displaying pictures. Its lossless compression is based on the combination of the Lempel–Ziv–Storer–Szymanski and Huffman algorithms and is called DEFLATE (Deutsch, 1996). In short, it consists of two main steps: (i) bit reduction, replacing commonly used symbols with shorter representations and less commonly used symbols with longer representations by Huffman coding and (ii) Duplicate string elimination by detecting duplicates and replacing the occurrences by a reference to the first one, by LZSS algorithm. Its great efficacy made it a reference for comparison with other entropy-encoding image compression methods (Cover and Thomas, 2006; Bian et al., 2019; Hou et al., 2020; Mentzer et al., 2020) and it is even used directly to estimate image entropy (Wagstaff and Corsetti, 2010).

In this article, we show that measurement of PNG file output size of neuroscientific data (in Bytes on the hard drive) is a reliable and unbiased proxy to estimate the level of entropy of electrophysiological or morphological data
. First, the relationship between entropy level and file size is linear. Second, by simply dividing the size of the PNG file (in Bytes) by the number of pixels in the image, we can obtain a “PNG Size Rate” (or “PNG Rate,” in Bytes per pixels), which slowly converges toward a stable value when increasing the amount of recorded data. This allows the experimenter to compare multiple recordings of different sizes. Therefore, even if the PNG Rate does not provide the exact entropy value, it is robust enough to estimate the level of entropy in response to different experimental conditions. Furthermore, with minimal modifications of the PNG file, we validate estimation of the mutual information between a stimulation protocol and the resulting experimental recording.




You know how they've been able now to put people into fMRIs and then show them images and reproduce them pretty accurately? Clearly these neuroscientists find the concepts of entropy and compression to be useful.

Quote:

Note, the fact that you do not seem to remember details from when you were younger than three is related to access to the memory engrams. Few cues in adult life mirror the sets of neurons that are stimulated when you are in diapers, but if you work it, you will get it.


I have at least one verifiable memory from around 20 months of age. The first time my mom left me at daycare. I remember in quite vivid detail crying and begging her not to leave. She took me across the room to look at a fishtank and given a poptart basically to distract me and left. I remember the room layout. My mom remembers the whole bit too.

Definitely started having more memories shortly after 3 and by 5 I have retained quite a few


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Neuroscience shows that speed reading is bullshit- On 'Getting it' [Re: morrowasted]
    #28388103 - 07/07/23 08:03 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Mostly what I learned about the brain was in terms of electrolytes[ions]/membranes/receptors/neuromodulators (ligands)/basic metabolic pathways, but previously programming and logic were the lens I was looking through. I'm trying to look through both lenses at once.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7872957/

Quote:

Coarse-grained protein models approximate the first-principle physical potentials. Among those modeling approaches, the relative entropy framework yields promising and physically sound results, in which a mapping from the target protein structure and dynamics to a model is defined and subsequently adjusted by an entropy minimization of the model parameters. Minimization of the relative entropy is equivalent to maximization of the likelihood of reproduction of (configurational ensemble) observations by the model. In this study, we extend the relative entropy minimization procedure beyond parameter fitting by a second optimization level, which identifies the optimal mapping to a (dimension-reduced) topology. We consider anisotropic network models of a diverse set of ion channels and assess our findings by comparison to experimental results





I haven't consulted chatGPT in weeks but I decided to take a shot and it seems to explain and mostly agree what I am getting (at)
Quote:



Grey-White Interaction


User
How do grey matter and white matter interact during the process of engram formation?

ChatGPT
Engram formation, which refers to the encoding and storage of memories in the brain, involves the interaction between grey matter and white matter. Grey matter and white matter are two distinct types of brain tissue with different functions.

Grey matter primarily consists of the cell bodies, dendrites, and synapses of neurons. It is responsible for information processing and is densely packed in the outer layer of the brain called the cerebral cortex. Grey matter plays a crucial role in the formation, storage, and retrieval of memories.

White matter, on the other hand, consists of myelinated nerve fibers called axons, which form connections between different regions of grey matter. These axons act as communication pathways, allowing signals to travel between different parts of the brain and facilitating the integration of information.

During engram formation, grey matter and white matter work together to establish and strengthen connections between neurons. Here's a general overview of how they interact:

Encoding: When a new experience or information is encountered, grey matter processes and analyzes the sensory input. This involves the activation of specific neurons and the formation of neural circuits related to the memory being formed.

Synaptic Plasticity: The process of engram formation relies on synaptic plasticity, which refers to the ability of synapses (connections between neurons) to strengthen or weaken over time. This plasticity allows for the modification of existing connections and the creation of new connections between neurons.

Long-Term Potentiation (LTP): LTP is a cellular mechanism that underlies the strengthening of synaptic connections. It involves an increase in the efficiency of neurotransmission between two neurons, making the communication more robust. LTP is a key process in the consolidation of memories, and it occurs in the grey matter regions involved in memory processing.

White Matter Connectivity: White matter tracts, composed of bundles of axons, provide the structural framework for long-distance communication between grey matter regions. These axons transmit electrical signals, carrying information from one area of grey matter to another. The integrity and efficiency of white matter pathways are crucial for the proper functioning of memory processes.

Integration and Retrieval: Once memories are encoded and consolidated, the brain retrieves the stored information by reactivating the neural circuits involved in the initial encoding. This reactivation requires coordinated communication between different grey matter regions via the white matter pathways, enabling the recall of memories.

It's important to note that our understanding of engram formation is still an active area of research, and the specific mechanisms involved are not fully elucidated. However, the interaction between grey matter and white matter is fundamental for the formation, storage, and retrieval of memories in the brain.





User
What role do transmembrane ion channels, entropy, and information compression play in engram production?

ChatGPT
Transmembrane ion channels, entropy, and information compression play important roles in engram production, each contributing to different aspects of memory formation and storage. Here's an overview of their involvement:

Transmembrane Ion Channels: Transmembrane ion channels are proteins embedded in the cell membranes of neurons. They play a critical role in generating and propagating electrical signals within neurons, which are essential for information processing and communication in the brain. During engram production, transmembrane ion channels are involved in several processes:

Action Potential Generation: Transmembrane ion channels are responsible for initiating and propagating action potentials, which are electrical impulses that transmit signals along the neuron's axon. Action potentials are crucial for transmitting information between neurons, allowing for the communication necessary for memory formation.

Synaptic Transmission: Ion channels located at the synapses facilitate the release and reception of neurotransmitters, enabling communication between neurons. This synaptic transmission plays a vital role in the transfer of information from one neuron to another, contributing to the formation and strengthening of connections involved in engram production.

Plasticity Mechanisms: Certain ion channels are involved in synaptic plasticity, which is essential for memory formation and storage. For example, NMDA receptors, a type of ion channel, are implicated in long-term potentiation (LTP), a process associated with the strengthening of synaptic connections during learning and memory.

Entropy: Entropy refers to the measure of randomness or disorder in a system. In the context of engram production, entropy is linked to the encoding and storage of memories. Memories are formed by the rearrangement and modification of neural connections, leading to a reduction in entropy. As information is encoded and consolidated, the neural circuits involved become more ordered and less random, representing the specific memory being stored.

Reduction of Entropy: The process of memory formation involves the organization of neuronal networks to encode specific information. This organization reduces the overall entropy within the brain, as the neural activity becomes more structured and predictable in relation to the memory being formed. In other words, memories are associated with a decrease in randomness and an increase in order within the brain's activity patterns.
Information Compression: Information compression refers to the process of reducing the amount of data required to represent information without losing essential details. In the context of engram production, information compression is thought to play a role in optimizing memory storage and retrieval.

Sparse Coding: One proposed mechanism for information compression in memory is sparse coding. Sparse coding suggests that engrams are represented by a subset of neurons that selectively activate in response to specific features or aspects of a memory. This sparse representation reduces redundancy and efficiently encodes the relevant information while discarding unnecessary details, thus achieving information compression.

Pattern Completion: Another aspect of information compression is pattern completion, which allows the retrieval of complete memories from partial or incomplete cues. The brain stores compressed representations of memories, and when provided with a partial cue, it can reconstruct and retrieve the entire memory using pattern completion processes.

It's worth noting that the understanding of the specific roles of transmembrane ion channels, entropy, and information compression in engram production is still an active area of research. While their contributions are supported by scientific theories and evidence, the precise mechanisms and interactions involved in memory formation and storage are complex and continue to be explored.








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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Neuroscience shows that speed reading is bullshit- On 'Getting it' [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #28388114 - 07/07/23 08:13 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

our memory is not compressed at all, it is not information either it is just associations of what was turned on with what, and a little bit of what came next (as far as turning on neurons goes)
if you click the brain fart demo link below in my sig it goes to the demo.
the first time the demo points at any picture it learns it by interlinking all the cortical neurons using pyramidal branches which only form spines with neurons that are on at the same time.
then when any part of the image is presented the "brain" reflex brings back the rest of the image - where 7 or more hot branches touch spines on resting neurons.
No compression at all, everything is managed on top of everything else.
you can test all the pictures,
no additional memory is used - just the collections of spines.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Neuroscience shows that speed reading is bullshit- On 'Getting it' [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28388172 - 07/07/23 09:14 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Hmmm I think I see where I've been fucking up my understanding...


I've been trying to approach all of these questions from the bottom up.

The approaches are complementary and not mutually exclusive but I've been trying to translate a topdown approach into bottom up language, which has gotten this loop's perception trapped within a semantic circuit.

I am gonna go sit in and listen to the wind and rain and thunder

thanks


Edited by morrowasted (07/07/23 09:20 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Neuroscience shows that speed reading is bullshit- On 'Getting it' [Re: morrowasted]
    #28388235 - 07/07/23 10:13 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Got it


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Neuroscience shows that speed reading is bullshit- On 'Getting it' [Re: morrowasted]
    #28388290 - 07/07/23 11:11 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

I wouldn't be surprised if speed reading is more applicable to fictional novels where comprehension is more overlayed by fantasy.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Neuroscience shows that speed reading is bullshit- On 'Getting it' [Re: sudly]
    #28388304 - 07/07/23 11:24 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

I am a super slow novel reader, but I spend 1/4 to 1/3 of my waking time reading novels on my computer screen.

I reread pages, and have no worry about finishing the books, but I do finish, and have read over 250 star trek novels so far in the last 4 years. ploddingly and re-readingly.

I keep the background black and the text orange, it's like an old fashioned crt screen. I'm using a laptop that can open flat or flip to be a tablet, but I use it flat in bed for reading while half lying down, that way the edge below the keyboard rests on my belly or my hips and one hand balances the thin laptop.

I also slant it to cover the video that my  wife is watching unless I want to see her video.

When stoned the text looks incredible and the afterimages make great hieroglyphic frameworks for hallucination.

gotta love reading.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Neuroscience shows that speed reading is bullshit- On 'Getting it' [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28388318 - 07/07/23 11:39 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Less blue light is handy, would be interesting to try orange text. My background on this site has been orange for a long time.

I listen to a lot of warhammer 40k audio books that really compell my imagination.

Am usually listening on the road or before bed.

I don't speed listen though, maybe there's some similarity with thread topic and people who listen at 1.5x or more speed?


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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