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OnlineRJ Tubs 202
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Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
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Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28356754 - 06/12/23 09:13 AM (7 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:

Jesus was a socialist before it was a thing, a hippy among hippies, the whole camel will pass through the eye of a needle before a rich man, the pacifism of turning the other cheek etc.




Jesus talked a lot about the sin of judging the hearts of others, and the damage it produces.  No political party aligns with that value.  These days politics is focused on anger and condemnation.  I have friends who tell me I'm not as mad as I should be!  (We are locked in a battle of good versus evil!)  American politics feels like an explosion of religious fervor.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: I reject religion [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28356766 - 06/12/23 09:22 AM (7 months, 13 days ago)

Condemnation,
the whole nation could be condemned, but some should be much more condemned, so much more it hurts to think about it.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OnlineRJ Tubs 202
Male


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA Flag
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Re: I reject religion [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28356788 - 06/12/23 09:34 AM (7 months, 13 days ago)

That's the current trend.  Group A is bad, but Group B is very bad.

One political party calling another political party a "cult" is a humorous as Christians calling Mormonism a cult.  I find all of the name calling ridiculously funny. I guess it helps people feel better about themselves? Calling someone a narcissist isn't demeaning enough.  They are a malignant narcissist!!!

it's so childish - yet people are embracing hatred proudly


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: I reject religion [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28356883 - 06/12/23 10:41 AM (7 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
That's the current trend.  Group A is bad, but Group B is very bad.

One political party calling another political party a "cult" is a humorous as Christians calling Mormonism a cult.  I find all of the name calling ridiculously funny. I guess it helps people feel better about themselves? Calling someone a narcissist isn't demeaning enough.  They are a malignant narcissist!!!

it's so childish - yet people are embracing hatred proudly



pride in hatred is malignant
because it spreads like cancer,
and those affected take on the pride as well as the hate.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28357102 - 06/12/23 01:30 PM (7 months, 13 days ago)

I am neither a proponent of Catholicism, Dutch Reformed lawn-mowing, Sharia Law or living the Amish lifestyle-- but they do have lower theft rates. Are there common denominators among those groups that are positive?

Corporate crony capitalists and socialist oligarchs are the priests of today's secular religion. Get rid of either of those groups, you'll have the other.

Social Darwinism has its merits too. A utopian society could operate very efficiently. Far more efficiently than a society constrained by the fetters of religious ideals such as caring for the weak.

But I think a lot of your own values come from religion. This vestigial inheritance from your ancestors is surely holding you back. How do we pick and choose what religious values to keep and which to discard? Surely emotional attachment, inherent goodness, or a vote of the mob. Consider Socrates' arguments about "what is good?"


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: I reject religion [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28357128 - 06/12/23 01:46 PM (7 months, 13 days ago)

Policies of hatred are shit, but clearly more evident from Republican religious denominations.

Both sides are corporate chrony capitalists, but at least one of them feigns social acceptance. Dems don't fight for it well, but they don't push bills of hatred for minorities based on sexuality or the reproductive rights of women.

They're not a fan of immigration though.

But all aside, there are clear policies to point to and criticise.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: I reject religion [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28357131 - 06/12/23 01:49 PM (7 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
American politics feels like an explosion of religious fervor.




Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
That's the current trend.  Group A is bad, but Group B is very bad.

I guess it helps people feel better about themselves? 

it's so childish - yet people are embracing hatred proudly




Yeah I agree 100%. Not cool. We need more natural medicine.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28357138 - 06/12/23 01:59 PM (7 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Both sides are corporate chrony capitalists,...

But all aside, there are clear policies to point to and criticise.




Looks like a smokescreen to me. No matter which you vote for, you're voting pro-bankers, pro-oil refineries, pro-pharma, pro-lawers, and anti-revolutionary, anti-stablecoin crypto (in the US).


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Registered: 05/21/20
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Re: I reject religion [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28357143 - 06/12/23 02:02 PM (7 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Condemnation,
the whole nation could be condemned, but some should be much more condemned, so much more it hurts to think about it.




Off with their heads!


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: I reject religion [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #28357160 - 06/12/23 02:18 PM (7 months, 13 days ago)

condemned means damned by a convent


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: I reject religion [Re: Moses_Davidson] * 1
    #28357438 - 06/12/23 05:16 PM (7 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Moses_Davidson said:
Quote:

sudly said:
Both sides are corporate chrony capitalists,...

But all aside, there are clear policies to point to and criticise.




Looks like a smokescreen to me. No matter which you vote for, you're voting pro-bankers, pro-oil refineries, pro-pharma, pro-lawers, and anti-revolutionary, anti-stablecoin crypto (in the US).




Some progressive policies are clearly better for the general public and supported by the majority in polls. Unfortunately a number of the progressive caucus don't seem to have stood up strong for the progressive values and have bowed to corporate democratic pressure instead :sadyes:


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineSvetaketu
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #28358312 - 06/13/23 11:22 AM (7 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Moses_Davidson said:
I am neither a proponent of Catholicism, Dutch Reformed lawn-mowing, Sharia Law or living the Amish lifestyle-- but they do have lower theft rates. Are there common denominators among those groups that are positive?





Why don't we look at the rate of rapes or child abuse in those communities instead? I'd say that's probably the common denominator.

It's easy to stop theft when you start chopping hands off; the ends don't justify the means.

Quote:


But I think a lot of your own values come from religion. This vestigial inheritance from your ancestors is surely holding you back. How do we pick and choose what religious values to keep and which to discard? Surely emotional attachment, inherent goodness, or a vote of the mob. Consider Socrates' arguments about "what is good?"




Morality is honestly pretty simple, as long as we can agree on a goal (for example, the wellbeing of humans as a whole).

Once we have a goal, basically all moral questions fall into line with very minimal logic.

Appealing to some kind of religion or higher power is not of any help here at all, in fact historically, moralities based on religious values have been disgusting, leading to atrocities like the Spanish inquisition and suicide bombing.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Svetaketu]
    #28358329 - 06/13/23 11:39 AM (7 months, 12 days ago)

Its true.  I very much identify with the REBELLION from religious thinking/rule.  ...By way of science, and the rebellion of Lucifer. 

:billseal:


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OnlineRJ Tubs 202
Male


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 8 minutes, 20 seconds
Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28359569 - 06/14/23 12:38 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:

Some progressive policies are clearly better for the general public and supported by the majority in polls. Unfortunately, a number of the progressive caucus don't seem to have stood up strong for the progressive values and have bowed to corporate democratic pressure instead :sadyes:




It's fascinating how this rarely is discussed.

Makes some folks wonder if their stated views are even genuine.

Many on the left hate Jimmy Dore for talking about it . . .


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: I reject religion [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28359624 - 06/14/23 01:33 PM (7 months, 11 days ago)

I think Jimmy Dore became a bit of a grifter, sad to see. Some of the progressive caucus don't stand up for their stated views, but the general policy ideals of progressives are genuinely favoured by the majority.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I reject religion [Re: sudly]
    #28360468 - 06/15/23 06:06 AM (7 months, 10 days ago)



--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: I reject religion [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28382073 - 07/02/23 05:33 AM (6 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
check out this
https://www.axios.com/2023/06/15/tim-alberta-book-kingdom-evangelical-christian




Sounds like a modern-day Kierkegaard in his view toward the church. Kierkegaard called it (the church) the same sort of abomination that Christ came to abolish. If I recall correctly, Christ himself was in the temple dumping over the tables of the capitalists working inside. Are you going to read it?


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Svetaketu]
    #28382078 - 07/02/23 05:45 AM (6 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Svetaketu said:

Quote:


How do we pick and choose what religious values to keep and which to discard? Surely emotional attachment, inherent goodness, or a vote of the mob. Consider Socrates' arguments about "what is good?"




Morality is honestly pretty simple, as long as we can agree on a goal (for example, the wellbeing of humans as a whole). Once we have a goal, basically all moral questions fall into line with very minimal logic.






What if we don't agree? What if the majority voted for Adolf Hitler? Didn't the Germans all agree on how to handle morality? Does a vote of agreement make any idea right?


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineSvetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑
Male

Registered: 10/08/15
Posts: 1,508
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Re: I reject religion [Re: Moses_Davidson] * 1
    #28388209 - 07/07/23 09:43 AM (6 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Moses_Davidson said:
What if we don't agree? What if the majority voted for Adolf Hitler? Didn't the Germans all agree on how to handle morality? Does a vote of agreement make any idea right?




Well yeah, plenty of people don't agree on morality, because it is a social construct.

We talk about it, and if that doesn't work we fight about it.

However pushing the question towards religion doesn't help one bit. The Muslims disagree with the Catholics who disagree with the Scientologist and on and on. People thinking they have God in their corner doesn't help the discussion, it just makes people more prone to violence.

Fwiw, on the belt buckle of every nazi soldier was inscribed "Gott mit uns" - God with us.


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