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Offlinejee3apha
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Help me understand why can't I just boil coir * 1
    #28386703 - 07/06/23 04:30 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I'm very confused by all the conflicting information on this topic:

  • some say to just pour water and let it expand
  • some say to pour boiling water using a more or less insulated container
  • some say to pasteurize it, just like that, without even ensuring proper time and temperature
  • some even say to never attempt to sterilize it as it would cause contamination (which honestly sounds like BS to me...)


When there's such a mess in the general knowledge it probably means that whatever option will reasonably work. But still I'd like to understand what's the deal with all that. While I get that you don't need to sterilize it and that you can just pour boiling water on it, as if it was orders of magnitude simpler than just boil the thing, which IMHO is not. What I don't get is, if pouring boiling water is good, why boiling it isn't better in terms of killing whatever contamination the coir could host? Pasteurization exists for a reason (correct me if I'm wrong), basically you tradeoff the amount of pathogen you kill with the fact that you don't ruin what you're trying to preserve. Can you ruin coir?

I mean I have a huge ass pot that I already use to sterilize jars and whatnot, why can't I just put the coir brick in it, add some water, turn on the stove, and let it cook while stirring from time to time until it fully expands?

I get that it's an easy thing to try by itself, but I don't want to risk messing up the spawn.

Please don't throw "stick to the TEK" to me, first of all because there's no general consensus, then I'm here to learn, and I like to understand the why of the things, even when they just work without any issue.


Peace.

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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Help me understand why can't I just boil coir [Re: jee3apha] * 1
    #28386709 - 07/06/23 04:42 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

The consensus is that if you have a good quality coir then you can do whatever you want with it and it will work.

Don't you think the coir would burn on the bottom of the pot unless you put a lot more water in than just bringing it to field capacity and then you would have to squeeze it out again. Pouring the right amount of water over your brick is the easiest way.

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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Help me understand why can't I just boil coir [Re: jee3apha] * 1
    #28386710 - 07/06/23 04:42 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

You don't need to kill any contamination, coir is inert which why we use it. It's also why it's as simple as just dumping water or it, doesn't even have to be hot much less boiling.

If you do want to sterilize coir, nothing is stopping you. I've used plenty of sterilized coir


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Offlinejee3apha
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Re: Help me understand why can't I just boil coir [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #28386714 - 07/06/23 04:47 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Baba Yaga said:
The consensus is that if you have a good quality coir then you can do whatever you want with it and it will work.





I see, but it couldn't be easy to ascertain that...

Quote:


Don't you think the coir would burn on the bottom of the pot unless you put a lot more water in than just bringing it to field capacity and then you would have to squeeze it out again. Pouring the right amount of water over your brick is the easiest way.




Yes, the squeezing part was my only concern, still not sure how annoying and messy it could be in practice.

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OfflineYahra
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Re: Help me understand why can't I just boil coir [Re: SirPsycho] * 1
    #28386715 - 07/06/23 04:48 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I use a simple plastic bucket without any isolation and hot tap water.



So far it works, didn't notice any contamination.


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: Help me understand why can't I just boil coir [Re: jee3apha] * 3
    #28386717 - 07/06/23 04:50 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Squeezing out excess water gets old really fast

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Offlinejee3apha
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Re: Help me understand why can't I just boil coir [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28386718 - 07/06/23 04:51 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
You don't need to kill any contamination, coir is inert which why we use it.




But it could nevertheless be dirty and host mold spores and whatnot, right? I don't think the manufacturers paid special attention to the hygiene. It's true that the spawn should be quite contamination-resistant at this point but still...

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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Help me understand why can't I just boil coir [Re: jee3apha] * 5
    #28386720 - 07/06/23 04:53 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jee3apha said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
You don't need to kill any contamination, coir is inert which why we use it.




But it could nevertheless be dirty and host mold spores and whatnot, right? I don't think the manufacturers paid special attention to the hygiene. It's true that the spawn should be quite contamination-resistant at this point but still...



Oh it's certainly dirty but so is the air in your home so the coir will get dirty again the moment it's clean anyway.


--------------------
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Offlinejee3apha
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Re: Help me understand why can't I just boil coir [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28386757 - 07/06/23 05:43 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

jee3apha said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
You don't need to kill any contamination, coir is inert which why we use it.




But it could nevertheless be dirty and host mold spores and whatnot, right? I don't think the manufacturers paid special attention to the hygiene. It's true that the spawn should be quite contamination-resistant at this point but still...



Oh it's certainly dirty but so is the air in your home so the coir will get dirty again the moment it's clean anyway.




This is true, I just thought of it not as a binary thing, like that the mycelium could get away with the contamination in the air of my home, but less so with external pathogens that could be god only knows what, and especially in what amount... But I see your point.

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Offlinejohnukguy
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Re: Help me understand why can't I just boil coir [Re: jee3apha]
    #28387040 - 07/06/23 11:41 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

A couple of things to bear in mind are that the coir substrate acts more as a water reservoir, rather than the primary source of nutrients for the cube mycelium.
So it's a good thing to have it be fairly inert. That gives it a good chance against contaminants, so long as none have been added in quantity deliberately,
such as Trich, and the spawn is clean to begin with. Secondly, once we spawn to bulk, sterile technique is over with anyway. The major key then is clean spawn.


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OfflineOm Namo Shivaya


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Re: Help me understand why can't I just boil coir [Re: johnukguy]
    #28387063 - 07/06/23 11:52 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I have had a few times where it seemed like the Coir was causing issues because it wasn't heat treated, but I think that's because it was really dirty coir. There was the occasional leaf or other plant material that was probably causing the contamination, not the coir itself.

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Offlinerxb
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Re: Help me understand why can't I just boil coir [Re: jee3apha]
    #28387204 - 07/06/23 02:23 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

it really is about competition for resources, mycellium fights or coexists with containants in the wild. you are using spawn 1:3 or 1:4 with the coir which gives the good mycology a head start and their defences should prevail.

but if you want you can boil it... steam it... use hot water or cold water.

you could test batches of each and see what you feel works best for you and do that. and if you find out something else works better for you theres alot of honor in reporting that back to the community.

but people seem to have no issue with cold water prepped coir. and that combined with your own experience will be what in the end makes up your mind.


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