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Ice9
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: rxb]
#28387558 - 07/06/23 07:17 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Hatch Act limits speech of government employees, including members of presidential administrations.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Sugabearcrisp
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: rxb] 1
#28387562 - 07/06/23 07:20 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
rxb said:
Quote:
Sugabearcrisp said:
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rxb said: well you are wrong... all parties have the freedoms... and the rights...
and the reason you cant wrap your head around it is because you have a side and i dont.
That is not a proof that I am wrong. Please do explain how i am wrong specifically?
the supreme court has ruled that for example companies have the right to expression(citizens united). but beyond that they have ruled many times that the government represents the PEOPLE and as such they have freedoms as well. many of our laws limit the government, but none of them limit an administrations free speech in fact there are laws and rulings that protect the free speech of congress persons above and beyond that of a normal individual... and as such would surely apply to the executive branch.
more over the presidential bully pulpet as has been upheld and as is traditional is an example of executive branch free speech.
we do not limit speech in this country from anyone except in very specific cases and those have narrow scope. otherwise trump would have been in more trouble more frequently for lying more than any other president (possibly person) has.
biden has a fundimental right to say what he wants to whom he wants so long as it isnt an order. and if biden ordered something illegal in order for THAT to be problematic he would have to have the means of enforcement. neither was present in this case.
This is where you are confused. No one is telling the individual biden he can't exercise his right.
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rxb
n00b-sabot



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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Ice9]
#28387564 - 07/06/23 07:21 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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here you go, a lawyer can explain it to you.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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gww
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: rxb]
#28387566 - 07/06/23 07:21 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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The presidential bully pulpit is so free that the doj was defending trump against gene carol cause he made his comments while president. Which one do the republicans want? The president can say what he wants or can't? Cheers gww
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Sugabearcrisp
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Ice9]
#28387567 - 07/06/23 07:22 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said: Hatch Act limits speech of government employees, including members of presidential administrations.
Exactly it limits their individual speech while acting as an employee of the state. Today's injunction was supported by the hatch act as the censorship was political in nature.
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rxb
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
#28387568 - 07/06/23 07:23 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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well, yeah biden is part of the biden administration and he has individual rights and unionized rights the same as any company or organization does.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Ice9
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
#28387570 - 07/06/23 07:24 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sugabearcrisp said:
14th amendment made unions and corporations equavelent to people, when I used the term individual it applied to corporations and unions.
This is also wrong.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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rxb
n00b-sabot



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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
#28387573 - 07/06/23 07:25 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:
Ice9 said: Hatch Act limits speech of government employees, including members of presidential administrations.
Exactly it limits their individual speech while acting as an employee of the state. Today's injunction was supported by the hatch act as the censorship was political in nature.
but it doesnt limit the presidents speech, because it would infringe on his freedoms.
also hatch act is narrow in scope as i said above.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Ice9
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: rxb]
#28387575 - 07/06/23 07:28 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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I was just pointing out a particular case where members of the government speech was curtailed explicitly because they were members of the government
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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rxb
n00b-sabot



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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Ice9]
#28387578 - 07/06/23 07:31 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said: I was just pointing out a particular case where members of the government speech was curtailed explicitly because they were members of the government
and i agree with you that is a good example of a narrow scope exception for a good reason.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Ice9
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Ice9]
#28387579 - 07/06/23 07:31 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Corporate personhood came about later, not because the 14th amendment defined corporations to be individuals. Churches always has freedom of speech as well as other 1A protections. Speech from the get go was never just an individual right.
I am trying to argue like Enlil does, I am not doing a good job
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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rxb
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Ice9] 1
#28387584 - 07/06/23 07:35 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said: Corporate personhood came about later, not because the 14th amendment defined corporations to be individuals. Churches always has freedom of speech as well as other 1A protections. Speech from the get go was never just an individual right.
I am trying to argue like Enlil does, I am not doing a good job

he is terrible at debate, i wouldnt emulate him if i were you he just deflects and uses one way of using a phrase over another... its all really bad debate tactics from him.... the facts are on your side you dont need to cheat lol.
free speech has never been limited to individuals you are right.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Sugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear



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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: rxb]
#28387586 - 07/06/23 07:36 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Nah I am right and you both know it. The fact that your counter point keeps changing shows you have no standing. The state and the individuals acting as agents of the state do not have the same rights as they would if they were people or other entities treated as people. If they did the hatch act would be unconsitutional 
Anyways I have proven my point. 
So you totally okay if joe biden calls up ythan and tells him to delete all the teks under threat of regulation because that is free speech?
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rxb
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
#28387590 - 07/06/23 07:39 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sugabearcrisp said: Nah I am right and you both know it. The fact that your counter point keeps changing shows you have no standing. The state and the individuals acting as agents of the state do not have the same rights as they would if they were people or other entities treated as people. If they did the hatch act would be unconsitutional 
Anyways I have proven my point. 
So you totally okay if joe biden calls up ythan and tells him to delete all the teks under threat of regulation because that is free speech?
well the constitutional law scholars disagree with you... and they probably know more about it than any of us i have used michael popock before to prove enlil didnt know what he was talking about, i have yet to see legal AF get it wrong... and he explains it in the video above... the 5th circuit may uphold it but the legal ramifications of the order are both way too broad and out of scope ... as well as uninforcable for constitutional reasons.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Ice9
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: rxb]
#28387591 - 07/06/23 07:39 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Not to defend him, but Enlil will attack weak arguments based on errors in the argument itself. It is an effective tactic, though it avoids arguing substance. I imagine if the standard is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, that showing a prosecutions case (their argument) has fundamental or simple errors, makes it hard to convict. but what do I know
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 11,225
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Last seen: 1 hour, 24 minutes
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
#28387595 - 07/06/23 07:41 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sugabearcrisp said: Nah I am right and you both know it.
Just to point out that I have not been arguing you were wrong with regards to the government and free speech etc. I have not expressed a position on that at all.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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rxb
n00b-sabot



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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Ice9]
#28387597 - 07/06/23 07:43 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said: Not to defend him, but Enlil will attack weak arguments based on errors in the argument itself. It is an effective tactic, though it avoids arguing substance. I imagine if the standard is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, that showing a prosecutions case (their argument) has fundamental or simple errors, makes it hard to convict. but what do I know
it may work like that... but in casual forum debate it is just cheap tricks.
i have long doubted that he is an actual lawyer... and if he is one i imagine his win/loss ratio isnt all that good i grew up with good lawyers...he doesnt come off as one.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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gww
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
#28387600 - 07/06/23 07:44 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Both sides tried to influence media. Trump tried to shut down jimmy kimmel and you can bet many other things. How many people has he sued? While president? I find this about the same as saying 50 intelligent agents signed a letter against trump but the ones crying don't mention 100 generals that signed for him. What do we think is going on here and why is a judge so far down the rabbit hole that he thinks he needs to do something?
Cheers gww
Edited by gww (07/06/23 07:52 PM)
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rxb
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: gww]
#28387604 - 07/06/23 07:46 PM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
gww said: Both sides tried to influence media. Trump tried to shut down jimmy kimmel and you can bet many other things. How many people has he sued? While president? I find this about the same as saying 50 intelligent agents signed a letter for against trump but the ones crying don't mention 100 generals that signed for him. What do we think is going on here and why is a judge so far down the rabbit hole that he thinks he needs to do something?
Cheers gww
QFT
and furthermore its not illegal just dirty af. and here we have another example of trump supporters totaly ok when trump plays dirty but crying like children if anyone plays dirty back.
-------------------- ->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <- . i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications) [quote]Enlil said: I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Ice9]
#28387768 - 07/06/23 10:05 PM (6 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Ice9 said: You claimed it was fine for Turkey to suppress individuals on twitter, or really any speech, as long as that speech is illegal.
No, I did not claim it was fine - wrong AGAIN. 
I claimed that Twitter was following local law, as all social media companies do that don't want to get censored in those countries.
Go back and read your posts. You expressed support for Twitter not even attempting to fight against that law, despite Twitter's previously successful challenges to Turkey's requests for censorship, and supported the law itself.
Incorrect AGAIN. I showed that Twitter is fighting the censorship law it (and myself) disagrees with.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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