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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 1
    #28394370 - 07/13/23 11:42 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:

Ice9 said:
what is the coercion test?  How did it fail?  :confused:



I think you are trolling again but anyways the coercion test was introduced in Lee v. Weisman, where it was applied to school prayer...



It was also applied by the Supreme Court in 1963 who ruled that the First Amendment is violated when government officials coerce private companies to censor something.

In 1963, Rhode Island legislators began pressuring (not requiring) bookstores to remove books those lawmakers had deemed inappropriate. The Supreme Court (Bantam Books v. Sullivan) recognized that when politicians suggest that you censor content, that will be understood as an order to do so and thus violates the Constitution.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: gww]
    #28394374 - 07/13/23 11:44 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
The media companies should feel pressure when a request is made.  They should feel the moral question each of us should feel in our daily lives.



So when the government says the Hunter Laptop story is Russian disinformation, that should replace the real story???


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineIce9
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28394398 - 07/13/23 12:08 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

:pink:


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Offlinegww
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28394401 - 07/13/23 12:16 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

I remember what was going on back then.  Trump had done ask for Ukraine to make up dirt and with held congressional money to force the issue.  Russia was attacking our election at the time.  A lap top turns up.  The gov may have believed it could be Russian disinformation as well as the news papers who had no way to verify.  It was trumps justice department and his newly appointed intelligent director was ratcliffe who was defiantly a trump partisan. You indicate it was a partisan thing covering it up when in fact, it was a last minute drop that gave no time to assess validity while all the above was going on and it was trump gov that was in charge.  Now five years have gone by and it is still a pie in the sky item that may in no way have anything that can stand up in court and as we see has fake whatsapps being attached to it.  We are still in the same place now as then and all the reporting saying it means something is still really only on fox and twitter.
Makes you wonder who was really doing what they thought was right and who is trying to turn it into something it is not.
Cheers
gww

Ps  What somebody like hunter did as far as using name may leave a bad taste but you can look around.  If a bad taste does not add up to breaking the law then it is hard to get wound up about it cause everyone is doing it and if it was so bad (which it probably is) they should make laws that make this stuff illegal.  Nobody cares so much about hunter that we would lose sleep if he is actually guilty of doing a crime and a jury finds so.


Edited by gww (07/13/23 12:25 PM)


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28394418 - 07/13/23 12:49 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

gww said:
The media companies should feel pressure when a request is made.  They should feel the moral question each of us should feel in our daily lives.



So when the government says the Hunter Laptop story is Russian disinformation, that should replace the real story???




But there isn't much evidence that it's not Russian disinformation. Clearly, however, the evidence on that laptop is so dumb that nobody really cares to mess with it. Otherwise, Hunter would be in jail for crimes.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: gww]
    #28394421 - 07/13/23 12:53 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
I remember what was going on back then.  Trump had done ask for Ukraine to make up dirt...



He asked Ukraine to provide actual dirt, not made up dirt.  Can we at least be honest?  Trump wanted to expose Government corruption.  Meanwhile Joe Biden withheld money to PREVENT Burisma from being investigated.



Quote:

gww said:
Russia was attacking our election at the time.



That story was debunked ages ago.

Quote:

gww said:
  A lap top turns up.  The gov may have believed it could be Russian disinformation as well as the news papers who had no way to verify.



No, they didn't believe that, because the government had possession of the laptop since December 2019.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: christopera]
    #28394422 - 07/13/23 12:54 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
But there isn't much evidence that it's not Russian disinformation. Clearly, however, the evidence on that laptop is so dumb that nobody really cares to mess with it. Otherwise, Hunter would be in jail for crimes.



Again, the government had possession of the Hunter Biden's laptop since December 2019.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinegww
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28394425 - 07/13/23 12:58 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Again, the government had possession of the Hunter Biden's laptop since December 2019.



So trump was covering for biden, Ok now I get it.  Doesn't seem like bringing it up now is a very good defense for stolen documents.
Cheers
gww


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: gww]
    #28394427 - 07/13/23 01:04 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
Quote:

Again, the government had possession of the Hunter Biden's laptop since December 2019.



So trump was covering for biden, Ok now I get it.



I don't get it.  Can you explain?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinegww
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28394430 - 07/13/23 01:10 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

The answer is in what you posted that I responded to.  If you cannot get that, not sure I can help you.
Cheers
gww


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Offlinegww
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28394433 - 07/13/23 01:17 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Ok, I will have mercy on you.  So trump rather then put every single resource his government had to getting to the bottom of the laptop they had, he decided to save it for his last debate and so maybe he was not trying to save biden, he just picked a dumb way that did not work.  I mean the government was able to track down a billion dollars of stolen bit coin that was supposed to be untraceable in just a few days but a debate for a lap top seemed like a better ideal.
Cheers
gww


Edited by gww (07/13/23 01:22 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: gww]
    #28394439 - 07/13/23 01:37 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

You think the FBI told Trump about the laptop?  The FBI hated Trump.  Watch 1:19 - 2:33



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28394446 - 07/13/23 01:50 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

What's the difference between cooperation and coercion? To the outside observer, there may be none without the aggrieved party stating that their actions were not voluntary. Both your court decisions have aggrieved parties providing testimony to support this fact, but we don't have this for the accusations of government coercion against Facebook or Twitter.

Quote:

It is true, as noted by the Supreme Court of Rhode Island, that Silverstein was "free" to ignore the Commission's notices, in the sense that his refusal to "cooperate" would have violated no law. But it was found as a fact -- and the finding, being amply supported by the record, binds us -- that Silverstein's compliance with the Commission's directives was not voluntary. People do not lightly disregard public officers' thinly veiled threats to institute criminal proceedings against them if they do not come around, and Silverstein's reaction, according to uncontroverted testimony, was no exception to this general rule.






Why did Elon choose to publish the Twitter files, rather than submit a constitutional court challenge?


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Offlinegww
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28394449 - 07/13/23 01:51 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

I did not watch your video but anybody claiming trump didn't know but yet he brought it up in debate would put the believer of that in loo loo land.  I would have a hard time thinking such a person should be listen to on anything.
Cheers
gww


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28394453 - 07/13/23 01:59 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Why did Elon choose to publish the Twitter files, rather than submit a constitutional court challenge?



Maybe because a constitutional challenge could take years.  I don't know, you'd have to ask Elon Musk.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (07/13/23 02:04 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: gww]
    #28394457 - 07/13/23 02:03 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
I did not watch your video but anybody claiming trump didn't know but yet he brought it up in debate would put the believer of that in loo loo land.  I would have a hard time thinking such a person should be listen to on anything.
Cheers
gww



The story was released by the New York Post before it was brought up at the debate.  Maybe it's you who is in 'loo loo land'?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28394477 - 07/13/23 02:19 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

If that's coercion then trump calling up governors while they're trying to certify voting results is definitely coercion. Especially when he tells them exactly how many votes he wants them to find for him, and suggests that not doing so would be breaking the law.  Of course nothing like that was said in the Twitter files but we've got trump on tape doing exactly that. These hard tight guys really project.


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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: gww] * 1
    #28394479 - 07/13/23 02:21 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
I remember what was going on back then.  Trump had done ask for Ukraine to make up dirt and with held congressional money to force the issue.





Here's Biden just casually admitting that he threatened to wihhold $1 billion from Ukraine if their government didn't fire the state prosecutor that was actively investigating Joe Biden and Hunter over the Burisma scandal:



Look how casually he says it. He knows he has nothing to fear because he is on the side of the corrupt establishment and they don't go after their own.

Meanwhile, the genius Democrats tried to impeach Trump for merely investigating Biden's openly corrupt antics in Ukraine.

The Dems impeached Trump for something that Biden admitted on camera he was actually guilty of doing :rofl:

This country is a circus

And your willful ignorance will get you nowhere.


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Offlinegww
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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28394488 - 07/13/23 02:31 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

What has where it was brought up have to do with who was in charge of the government and all its resources.  The claim now is the biden gov is hiding it.  Trump has an excuse for everything.  Maybe he was just bad at his job and it is not everybody else who is. You can't have it both ways.  Since you mention maybe it is me in loo loo land, I am jumping to conclusions that you do believe trump did not know even though he used it in the debate.  You do realize the election was in nov 2020 and not in 2019, don't cha?  Baby steps.
Cheers
gww


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Re: federal judge pens an injunction against the biden administration. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28394495 - 07/13/23 02:38 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Why did Elon choose to publish the Twitter files, rather than submit a constitutional court challenge?



Maybe because a constitutional challenge could take years.  I don't know, you'd have to ask Elon Musk.



You mean worlds richest man / free speech absolutist Elon Musk? That's probably the perfect person for a long and drawn out court challenge on 1st amendment grounds.

How come you can't know Elon's subjective belief now, but you can know the subjective belief of various Twitter employees you claim felt coerced rather than cooperative?


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