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Offlinegww
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #28383233 - 07/03/23 06:49 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

but the one who went to Upenn after Joe called the dean who is now an ambassador



Biden would be a piece of crap if he did not try and help if he could the people he could.  This being the way of the world with everyone having the impetus to help those close to them is why it was recognized that the door would stay closed if not for some kind of law to open it.  It would be like asking everyone to buy american but leaving all the stores selling only Chinese stuff.  It is a bit of an unrealistic ask and will not be fixed by an individual doing more then everyone else to look for the american product.  People are people and some things can not be fixed by good intentions of individuals but need consensus.
Cheers
gww


Edited by gww (07/03/23 06:51 AM)


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: gww]
    #28383245 - 07/03/23 07:05 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

i think biden probably IS a pile of crap.

i see very little evidence to the contrary. none the less, id take a pile of crap over a malignant tumor anyday. which is exactly what happened.

politics has reached a point where there is very little to do but wait it out until the poverty is so undeniable that people move for real change and a real coup happens.

the military industrial complex is getting the dollars and the poor have less and less purchasing power and mobility with each passing day. its beyond the scope of a single politician to change this in any meaningful way.

when the rich are stacking wealth eventually their towers fall, the system currently in place tries to keep the towers upright as long as possible. give the poor the illusion of liberty and they will work three or four jobs to keep their kids in diapers.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: rxb]
    #28383260 - 07/03/23 07:24 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Milenia of humankind has proven you wrong.

Humans do their best work trying to kill eachother. Every technological advancememt has its roots in the MIC. The "space race" for example was really about developing and demonstrating ICBM capabilities.

Capitalism and the MIC harness humanaties natural tendencies and that is why these systems work.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #28383280 - 07/03/23 07:43 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Milenia of humankind has proven you wrong.

Humans do their best work trying to kill eachother. Every technological advancememt has its roots in the MIC. The "space race" for example was really about developing and demonstrating ICBM capabilities.

Capitalism and the MIC harness humanaties natural tendencies and that is why these systems work.




the space race was all pre military industrial complex. the work was done mostly by college programs feeding into military programs.

not private corporations overcharging tax payers for failures.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: rxb] * 1
    #28383301 - 07/03/23 08:06 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Milenia of humankind has proven you wrong.

Humans do their best work trying to kill eachother. Every technological advancememt has its roots in the MIC. The "space race" for example was really about developing and demonstrating ICBM capabilities.

Capitalism and the MIC harness humanaties natural tendencies and that is why these systems work.




the space race was all pre military industrial complex. the work was done mostly by college programs feeding into military programs.

not private corporations overcharging tax payers for failures.




You are wrong and even a cursory glance at history would tell you that... look up Wernher von Braun who went from nazi u2s to the army to run nasa for instance

https://www.sciencefocus.com/space/the-space-race-how-cold-war-tensions-put-a-rocket-under-the-quest-for-the-moon/


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #28383338 - 07/03/23 08:48 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Milenia of humankind has proven you wrong.

Humans do their best work trying to kill eachother. Every technological advancememt has its roots in the MIC. The "space race" for example was really about developing and demonstrating ICBM capabilities.

Capitalism and the MIC harness humanaties natural tendencies and that is why these systems work.




the space race was all pre military industrial complex. the work was done mostly by college programs feeding into military programs.

not private corporations overcharging tax payers for failures.




You are wrong and even a cursory glance at history would tell you that... look up Wernher von Braun who went from nazi u2s to the army to run nasa for instance

https://www.sciencefocus.com/space/the-space-race-how-cold-war-tensions-put-a-rocket-under-the-quest-for-the-moon/




im not at all wrong, project paperclip, brought over abunch of ex germans... set them up in positions.... companies were formed  and developed around that...the space race didnt happen because of private companies private companies happened because of the space race... and those funds got pulled OUT of military programs and such.. they stopped paying the universities so much....more money than ever went to those big companies... and it got out of hand... eisenhower pointed it out because it started shifting to where the companies were running the show instead of the government...etc etc

your history knowledge is severely lacking


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


Edited by rxb (07/03/23 08:50 AM)


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: rxb] * 1
    #28383418 - 07/03/23 09:54 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

your history knowledge is severely lacking




No it isn't. In fact I took a college course on the history of the space race as part of my physics degree.

Anyways it was just an example, you can continue to hold your naive belief that the MIC is something other than the natural outcome of human nature to compete and wish for something else to replace it.


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: rxb] * 1
    #28383443 - 07/03/23 10:14 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:

im not at all wrong, project paperclip, brought over abunch of ex germans... set them up in positions.... companies were formed  and developed around that...the space race didnt happen because of private companies private companies happened because of the space race... and those funds got pulled OUT of military programs and such.. they stopped paying the universities so much....more money than ever went to those big companies... and it got out of hand... eisenhower pointed it out because it started shifting to where the companies were running the show instead of the government...etc etc

your history knowledge is severely lacking




Wikipedia also points correctly to the MIC beginning in WWII, before the space race.

Quote:

With the onset of World War II President Franklin D. Roosevelt established the War Production Board to coordinate civilian industries and shift them into wartime production. Throughout World War II arms production in the United States went from around one percent of the annual GDP to 40 percent of the GDP.[33] Various American companies, such as Boeing and General Motors, maintained and expanded their defense divisions.[33] These companies have gone on to develop various technologies that have improved civilian life as well, such as night-vision goggles and GPS.[33]




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Offlinerxb
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #28383450 - 07/03/23 10:22 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

the origins of the space race can be traced back to jet propulsion that started somewhat BEFORE world war II...in 1930...

again, your knowledge of history is lacking

and i didnt even have to take a history of the space race class for my physics program...funny that.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: rxb]
    #28383478 - 07/03/23 10:44 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
the origins of the space race can be traced back to jet propulsion that started somewhat BEFORE world war II...in 1930...

again, your knowledge of history is lacking

and i didnt even have to take a history of the space race class for my physics program...funny that.



And it shows that you didn't take the class...

Quote:

The Space Race was a 20th-century competition between two Cold War rivals, the United States and the Soviet Union, to achieve superior spaceflight capability. It had its origins in the ballistic missile-based nuclear arms race between the two nations following World War II.




that's wikipedia, not me and that is the definition of the space race accepted by everyone except apparently you.

if you took the course you would also have learned that rocketry started well before the 1930s, with their military use dating back to the 10th century china.

Seriously I get you don't like me but the contortions you are going through instead of admitting you might be wrong are comically sad.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #28383528 - 07/03/23 11:21 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

so your position is that ... we get to space somehow without rockets... which start in 1930.

you are saying...if i understand you that somehow independantly of rocketry ...

or that somehow you think rocketry didnt start the boom of innovation that lead to it...

or what?

like in a way the space race started with the first flight... but at that point its not really an achievable thing... but as soon as we start playing with rockets we say ´now we can get there'and that starts in 1930.

hitler was working on it... russia was working on it... the programs started long before they were a public sight.

these programs started in universities with ideas... were funded by government... private contractors did some heavy lifting which enriched those companies.... eventually we start cutting out mit and standford and just do development with grummand, boeing and other private companies ...

the university system incentivises innovation the private corps just fullfill goals... i would say darpa is more productive than boeing is by far... the goal of darpa is innovation the goal of boeing is production and profit.

im not even saying that the role of private corps needs to be completely ripped out... but we could do better at more things if we used the brains of the universities in a better capacity... the way we did before.

you can quote wikipedia all day, but the logic is sound, we start our path to space with the rocket... and that gets a patent in 1930 which means it was in development before that...

without project paperclip .. and the german knowledge we probably still would have taken alot longer to get into space...the german knowledge was ALSO government funded research and education. this fuels innovation because the more educated people we have... the more unique thoughts and creativity we create, the faster we develop new ideas.

you can deny that all you want, but its simple logic.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: rxb]
    #28383559 - 07/03/23 11:40 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Well you are wrong and I am quoting wikipedia as an independent source to show that.
Again the space race is a specific term widely agreed to and you are attempting to redefine that.

Second the schools are part of the MIC.

I don't understand your point and you have failed at every turn to disprove mine.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #28383572 - 07/03/23 11:50 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Well you are wrong and I am quoting wikipedia as an independent source to show that.
Again the space race is a specific term widely agreed to and you are attempting to redefine that.

Second the schools are part of the MIC.

I don't understand your point and you have failed at every turn to disprove mine.




just because you say that doesnt make it so.

you havent really made a point. the only thing you really said was the its the companies that make the progress and thats not true. its ideas.

and ideas are the wheelhouse of education.

there was a point when education was free...and we had more innovation.

none of that is wrong... and your arguement is ¨nuh uh no it isnt"

which... isnt worth the time it takes to reply most of the time. you say you studied physics... shrug... you say you studied history...shrug... doesnt seem like you studied logic..

we are fucking education in this country and making it less accessible not more. there was a time when government progress funded education.. we should return to that ...


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offlinegww
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: rxb]
    #28383654 - 07/03/23 12:51 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

This subject is beyond my depth past the fact that it was not all about rockets.  Can't forget some of it started with balloons that may have laid the foundation for nasa.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/spacemen-balloon-innovation/
Back in the thirties, these air force pilots might have been famous.
Cheers
gww


Edited by gww (07/03/23 12:53 PM)


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: gww]
    #28383721 - 07/03/23 01:28 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Yeah idfk I think rxb is arguing for a utopian future where everything is developed in the colleges and universities with unlimited funding, I think :shrug:

I have tried to point out that human nature drives innovation primarily for purpose of killing or defending against other humans willing to kill you, but it obviously isn't getting through


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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #28383782 - 07/03/23 02:17 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Yeah idfk I think rxb is arguing for a utopian future where everything is developed in the colleges and universities with unlimited funding, I think :shrug:

I have tried to point out that human nature drives innovation primarily for purpose of killing or defending against other humans willing to kill you, but it obviously isn't getting through




not at all anything like anything i said.

ok, in 1930 do you know what it cost to go to MIT?

the cost of BOOKS. and we had better growth.

do you know what it costs now? i paid 160k for my education.

which system is available to more people? which era had the most growth and developent?


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


Edited by rxb (07/03/23 02:18 PM)


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: rxb]
    #28383802 - 07/03/23 02:32 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
not at all anything like anything i said.





Yeah well whatever you said didn't come through and now it sounds to me like you are idiolizing the 1930s, hopefully you didn't pay 160k for a communications degree.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #28383810 - 07/03/23 02:38 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:

rxb said:
not at all anything like anything i said.





Yeah well whatever you said didn't come through and now it sounds to me like you are idiolizing the 1930s, hopefully you didn't pay 160k for a communications degree.




no, culinary arts, psychology, comp sci, robotics engineering and physics.

but i was tripple majored at one point and deans list the whole time so, it would have been a WHOLE lot more expensive if i hadnt stacked em up.

i am horrible at written communication from dyslexia much better spoken..however there is something to be said from a genuine attempt to understand rather than just saying lalallalala capitalism is right..

because what im proposing is a return to a more prosperous form of capitalism and not some socialist bullshit. and what we have today is socialism for the already wealthy cashing in blank checks for failed airplanes.

if instead we wrote those checks for research and development at stanford and mit... we would return to kids only paying for books and acedemia profiting from taxes and building up society...

the current system isnt great. it used to be better.... not ALL of the 1930s... just how schools were funded.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


Edited by rxb (07/03/23 02:40 PM)


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Offlinegww
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: rxb]
    #28383877 - 07/03/23 03:48 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

I don't think the current trend of outside contracting every public service is a good thing.  Those buzz words that immediately stop a the republicans from thinking strait like venezuela, climate change, welfare, George Soros, etc are similar to how the word privatize affects me when it comes up in discussions.
Cheers
gww


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Supreme Court rules to strike down Affirmative Action [Re: rxb]
    #28383973 - 07/03/23 05:13 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:

rxb said:
not at all anything like anything i said.





Yeah well whatever you said didn't come through and now it sounds to me like you are idiolizing the 1930s, hopefully you didn't pay 160k for a communications degree.




no, culinary arts, psychology, comp sci, robotics engineering and physics.

but i was tripple majored at one point and deans list the whole time so, it would have been a WHOLE lot more expensive if i hadnt stacked em up.

i am horrible at written communication from dyslexia much better spoken..however there is something to be said from a genuine attempt to understand rather than just saying lalallalala capitalism is right..

because what im proposing is a return to a more prosperous form of capitalism and not some socialist bullshit. and what we have today is socialism for the already wealthy cashing in blank checks for failed airplanes.

if instead we wrote those checks for research and development at stanford and mit... we would return to kids only paying for books and acedemia profiting from taxes and building up society...

the current system isnt great. it used to be better.... not ALL of the 1930s... just how schools were funded.




Sorry to hear you suffer from dyslexia, my mom also has it and I understand how hard that or other disabilities can make academia, congrats on your technical degree :thumbup:

fwiw I am sincerely trying to understand your point. I think I am following now and I would counter that you are romanticizing a time that is adequately removed from your own (90 years) into something it wasn't. Simply looking at the number of college educated people per capitia will tell you that while MIT might not have cost much there weren't as many people going to college as there are now. Further other schools like dartmouth were relatively expensive back then at $1700 per anum = $30k+ today and this was before federal subsidized loans.

I also think you mistake my point... I don't think capitalism and the MIC are right, but I do think they are most closely aligned to human nature and therefore work because they leverage human nature. :rollsafe:


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