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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Personal Freedom
    #2837959 - 06/29/04 12:48 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

What is personal freedom and how is it acheived? Is it a spiritual idea, or a political one?


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2837986 - 06/29/04 12:56 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Why should it be limited to spirituality or to politics? Catch my drift?


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What?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2838029 - 06/29/04 01:07 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Not yet...explain...


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2838063 - 06/29/04 01:20 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Freedom is a vague concept. We all have certain liberties within a construct, but this construct only limits us to protect the liberties of others. It's like a safety-buffer-zone kind of thing. Make sense?

But how many of us have a license for anything? Hmm...no one. Unless you count the things I do in my day dreams.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Viaggio]
    #2838296 - 06/29/04 02:31 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

we have the freedom to be confused, or pretend that we understand. we have the freedom to do anything we want to do until we are stopped.

most choose to follow simple (and complex) guidelines out of fear of some sort or social acceptance.

spiritually and politically someone is always attempting to limit your freedom. whentalking about thoughts or beliefs, only you can let them limit you or not. when talking about actions, its only a matter of time before someone limits you (or maybe its not?) just rambling

peace


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Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Todcasil]
    #2838317 - 06/29/04 02:35 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I think personal freedom is merely a goal as we will never have it. No matter what freedom you seek there will be someone who has a vested interest in you not acheiving it. One can strive for it, however. There are efficient ways to do this, and innefficient ways...


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Offlinedoormouse
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2838471 - 06/29/04 03:35 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Personal freedom, imlao, is an illusion. Ignorance is bliss, knowlage is an enigma that make s you aware of how little you actually know. We are all simply pawns of a system with an agenda that only includes us as long as we participate acordingly.


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Down, down..... Alice tumbled through the rabbit hole, which is like a cave on it's side, only to find firm footing with which to make a stand.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2838477 - 06/29/04 03:40 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

agreed huehuecoyotl... personal freedom does exist as an illusion.. however i still contend that we have the freedom to be confused.

peace


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2838630 - 06/29/04 04:57 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I think this kind of works on a lot of levels at once.

You tune into the things that you think restrict your personal freedom. It seems as if you yourself, have limited your sense of freedom to only two categories: spirituality and politics.

I dont know about you, but is that the only thing that restricts our "personal" freedom?

To me it seems that it is these very things we think restrict, that are really blocking our view... from realizing that we are not controlled by just those things.

You cant put a cap on freedom... it just is.


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What?


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2838732 - 06/29/04 06:50 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Personal freedom is walking in an extremely silly way through the street and not feeling embarrassed.


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OfflineZenGecko
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2838797 - 06/29/04 07:51 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

So your assuming it exists? in that regard i have nothing to say.


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Invisibletoad857
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2839260 - 06/29/04 11:55 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

freedom is a vague concept.  in theory, we all have it.  in reality it gets a little sticky, though.

in theory i have the freedom to blow off my responsibilities and drive down to mexico, but that won't happen because my conscience is holding me back.  i know that it will cost lots of money, i will be stranded, fired, etc.
i have the freedom to go smoke a bowl in the police station lobby but in reality i wouldn't do that because i don't want to be arrested.

"Personal freedom is walking in an extremely silly way through the street and not feeling embarrassed"

freedom from what?  we all have the ability and the freedom to walk down the street how we wish, but in reality we (usually) dont.  what is holding us back?  is it the people that will stare?  or is it the knowledge that you will feel embarassed by it?  we are being held back internally, by our fears and our consciences.
having the freedom to walk down the street in a silly way and not feel embarassed means that you are free from your internal judgement of yourself.  the people who stare will always be staring, it is the internal self that has changed and is now free.

:penis:


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Anonymous

Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2839335 - 06/29/04 12:13 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Personal freedom is a derivative of free will, which everyone in this universe has. You have personal freedom to do what you want one hundred percent of the time. Not some times, not only in certain places; all the time, everywhere. It is only when free will is constricted to fit into the socio-political construct of a society that free will and thus personal freedom is "limited." But even then, it's not really limited at all. The only difference is, there are consequences for certain actions you take.

Personal freedom IS limited however to the physical characteristics of a situation. If you are a human being and you want to jump off a cliff and fly like a bird, well good luck. You can't fly like a bird by flapping your arms because you're not a bird. Just like you can't fly a kite outside if you're stuck in a jail cell. You first have to get out of the jail to do that. These situations limit your choices. But if you see what I'm saying, aside from physical constraints, there is nothing limiting your personal freedom.

I feel bad for anyone who thinks they don't have personal freedom one hundred percent of the time. You have free will, and you can do anything you want to. People create invisible bonds for themselves by saying, "I can't do that, it's against the rules", "There's a law against that", or "That's not acceptable in our society." Blah blah blah! You create these barriers yourself. No one else creates them for you. Look, they're made of nothing. Just words and notions that someone thought up.

So how is personal freedom achieved? Existing helps. That's about all that's required.


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Invisibletoad857
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2839628 - 06/29/04 01:40 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

very nicely put. these barriers are just so intimidating sometimes...


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: toad857]
    #2840016 - 06/29/04 03:39 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

im confused


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Todcasil]
    #2840447 - 06/29/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

There are various ways of striving for personal freedom. Some people feel the need to go against or fight the prevailing system, and while you may get some attention for your efforts, usually you will get a big fat smackdown. I have found that to subtlely work within the system to change it has benefits. If you blend in (not conform, just seem to) with others well you attract little attention so you can go about your business with little fanfare and without alienating your fellow humans. Sometimes others who have begun to empathize with you will change their opinions due to the example you set. It is from within a climate such as this that that revolutions can start. This just does not go for physical freedom, but for moral, and spiritual freedom as well. It is still not really freedom, but it is close.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2841095 - 06/29/04 09:01 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Are your posts here an example of using subtlety, blending in, and not alienating others?


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Invisibletoad857
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2841195 - 06/29/04 09:52 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

what kind of revolutions are born from passive climates?

:sleepingcow:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: ]
    #2841401 - 06/29/04 11:10 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Max Headroom said:

I feel bad for anyone who thinks they don't have personal freedom one hundred percent of the time. You have free will, and you can do anything you want to. People create invisible bonds for themselves by saying, "I can't do that, it's against the rules", "There's a law against that", or "That's not acceptable in our society." Blah blah blah! You create these barriers yourself. No one else creates them for you. Look, they're made of nothing. Just words and notions that someone thought up.
.




Man, that is so spot on. It's so true. I couldn't agree more. Damn.

Sorry, it's late and I'm stoned again! (oh no!)  :grin:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Personal Freedom [Re: toad857]
    #2842274 - 06/30/04 03:21 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yes they can, because a subtle shift in attitude in a population has a cumulative effect. Attitudes, as we all know, can be passed from one person to another with only casual contact. Paradigm shifts don't have to be loud.


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