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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
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Faith in Truth
#28379284 - 06/29/23 05:19 PM (6 months, 26 days ago) |
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Why is faith in God so common but faith in truth so rare?
J. Krishnamurti was mostly a con artist. Many people are swayed and taken in by his combination of bleak, depressive pessimism and his descriptions of love and bliss. Anybody with a history of using birth control, abortions, etc, will find J. Krishnamurti 'enlightening'. He resonates with wounded people, people who share the similar psychological wound. As Aldous Huxley described him, J.K. was a hedonist. Someone who maximized the pleasure he could get out of life, while emphasizing the shoddiness, the pettiness of the world 'out there'.
When the Ego wants to help itself to pleasure, it will say whatever it has to say. Ego will tell you what you what the ego wants to hear. The ego doesn't want to hear the truth that sexual intercourse is exactly what it seems to be: for reproduction, love and family, not for pleasure or thrills. I realize there's an industry for circumcision, condoms, porn, birth control, etc. There's also the truth. If you think the truth, and say it, you won't need protection and control. If you live in delusion, obviously you need to be protected by condoms, abortions and controls of all kinds, and that's because you're out of control. No self control, no relationship to truth, no ability to speak truth. Just ego and delusion and with that comes all the various types of protection and control.
Sexual intercourse is for reproduction. Sperm fertilizes egg, that makes babies and children. That's the truth about sexual intercourse. It's highly unlikely that sexual intercourse is for personal enjoyment. Better to have faith in what's true than put your faith in .... what? Porn? Masterbation? Hooking up with someone whose not your age or who you don't really like?
What is the personality of a con artist? Skilled con artists can bring out your worst traits, particularly greed, fear, and insecurity.
What does a romance scammer say? Tell-Tale Signs You're Falling for a Romance Scam: The scammer will often use endearing, loving terms such as “dear,” “darling,” and “love of my life.” And they'll attribute the budding romance to destiny or fate, making the victim feel as special as possible. Romance scammers may also propose marriage extremely quickly.
What are the signs of a con artist? How to Spot a Con Artist Rule Number 1: Con Artists Do Not Like To Be Found. ... Rule Number 2: Con Artists Dress For Success. ... Rule Number 3: Con Artists Often Push Poorly Understood Financial Products. ... Rule Number 4: Con Artists Bring Out The Worst In You. ... Rule Number 5: Con Artists Are Fair Weather Friends.
What is the psychological profile of a scammer? What are the main psychological tactics scammers use to trick their victims? According to Dr Brooks, there are three main psychological techniques scammers are currently using to trick people – time pressure and illusions of scarcity, authority bias and greed and status.
What is the most common fraud committed? By far, the most common type of fraud is the imposter scam, where someone represents themselves as someone they are not to extract money or personal information from their victim.
Video recording on this topic of truth, faith and relationship:
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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I value honesty tremendously.
Is this about honesty?
(is there a transcript of the video? I'm a bit deaf)
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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You're not mixing up J.K. with Osho are you? J.K. was offered the stewardship of the Order of the Star as the "World Teacher" and turned it down. And maybe I'm unaware but I don't remember him talking about sex for pleasure.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz] 1
#28379891 - 06/30/23 07:53 AM (6 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: You're not mixing up J.K. with Osho are you? J.K. was offered the stewardship of the Order of the Star as the "World Teacher" and turned it down. And maybe I'm unaware but I don't remember him talking about sex for pleasure.
He didn't talk about having sex for pleasure precisely because he had sex for pleasure and it turned into a painful vendetta against his financier, Rajapol. J.K. might have turned down the theosophy position, but he kept that position financially, starting schools all over the world in his name where he continued to teach. He just negated the content of theosophy with it's emphasis on astral bodies, reincarnation and occult powers. The noteworthy thing is what he kept doing - he did group dialogues until the end of his life, and one of his last remarks was something along the lines of 'nobody has got it' (referring to what he was teaching). What was he teaching? Sensitivity to nature aesthetically, the unity between observer and observed, keeping the body healthy, and his question, what are we going to do about the computer? He saw the future with the computer as grim. J.K. was not willing to let go of his engagement with the crowd, as he seen no point in resisting people's interest. Any questions about his personal sex life were regarded as 'impertinent'.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (06/30/23 07:58 AM)
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WhoManBeing
PsychedelicYogi



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 3,773
Loc: Oregon
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Why try wrapping your mind about all this negative projections? Nothing good to come to terms of truths in negativities.
Hilarious your detail to sex. Just as a body massage sex acts as deeper, inner massage.
Enjoy yourself.
-------------------- Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!! Eye was thinking the other day... ahh, thinking never done me no good.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said: He didn't talk about having sex for pleasure precisely because he had sex for pleasure and it turned into a painful vendetta against his financier, Rajapol. J.K. might have turned down the theosophy position, but he kept that position financially, starting schools all over the world in his name where he continued to teach. He just negated the content of theosophy with it's emphasis on astral bodies, reincarnation and occult powers. The noteworthy thing is what he kept doing - he did group dialogues until the end of his life, and one of his last remarks was something along the lines of 'nobody has got it' (referring to what he was teaching). What was he teaching? Sensitivity to nature aesthetically, the unity between observer and observed, keeping the body healthy, and his question, what are we going to do about the computer? He saw the future with the computer as grim. J.K. was not willing to let go of his engagement with the crowd, as he seen no point in resisting people's interest. Any questions about his personal sex life were regarded as 'impertinent'.
He did talk about sex in the context of contextual emotional attachment which is different than bangin' hot chicks. He had an affair, which isn't cool but not exactly a wild hedonist, unless like I said, I'm not aware of other shenanigans. He was not a flawless person but his teachings were along the same lines as that of The Buddha.
I think when someone hopes to make a fundamental difference to society they're headed for a let down. It reminds me of Mother Theresa who in a letter towards the end of her life described it as being wasted.
J.K.'s net worth was a couple million in todays dollars. Osho was worth much more than that and encouraged sex for liberation.
At any rate, it would be a mistake to think of J.K. as an enlightened being along the same lines as a conceptual Buddha. There have been others who have taken the concepts further without being public about it. He was an interesting person with interesting things to say that are thought provoking.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28380088 - 06/30/23 11:44 AM (6 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
He did talk about sex in the context of contextual emotional attachment which is different than bangin' hot chicks. He had an affair, which isn't cool but not exactly a wild hedonist, unless like I said, I'm not aware of other shenanigans.
Correct, JK was not a wild hedonist, rather a subtle and refined one, and that caused him more pain than it otherwise would. A wild hedonist is what I would call Osho. Osho was a wild hedonist and his reliance on things like nitrous oxide and who knows what other drugs means he would have suffered less. I don't believe Osho had much of a conscience. Osho was a true confidence (con) man, and the fear and aggression that brewed beneath his followers was far more volatile (literally explosive) than the kind of company J.K. kept.
J.K. once said, describing sex, "she goes off to love someone else and one's entire emotional balance is destroyed."
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
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Registered: 10/05/16
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Quote:
Hilarious your detail to sex.
Truth is the funniest joke in the world. I wouldn't go there were it not for the curiosity directed at me. I learn to deal with people's questions, impositions and unexpected visits by laying it all out bare bones. Then they can think twice next time they think it's a good idea to approach me. And when I say they, I'm talking about any group of people under the age of 20. I just find it funny how I hardly get to spend time with people my own age, mostly alone at 42, and then I had this dumb situation where I had children yapping at my heels like chiwahwahs. Really aggressive, inquisitive, rude, mean, dumb children, not the kind that you might imagine or like. It's just ridiculous question after question. Banker looking for free babysitting. Othertimes, it's some older lady with borderline dementia humping up against me, fooling herself into thinking I'm going to have a romance with her. You're right, it's hilarous, I laugh too at the dumb situations life puts me in. Nothing worse than being alone, yet, "in relationship" to all things. The only peace I get is going out for a walk and buying a pack of smokes or some weed. And now they got the psychiatrist on my case telling me I can't smoke weed anymore, so I'm just left with tobacco.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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bookofdaniel
Stranger

Registered: 06/22/23
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I find you interesting. I gave up on psychiatry in my case.
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Cory Duchesne
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Quote:
bookofdaniel said: I find you interesting. I gave up on psychiatry in my case.
I've been involuntarily committed, meaning, the police can show up and take me the psychiatric ward. Last time the police came, they took me to the ward and kept me there for one month. One full month in the hospital. The only time I could go outside was for a smoke break a few times a day, 15 min breaks. The psychiatrist prescribed an injection of abilify, every month I am injected by a nurse with a needle. She's kind of obnoxious. I essentially have a police man with a gun to my head forcing me to go to a psychiatrist and nurse to receive abilify injections, this is while the landlord exacts his due. I work part time at the grocery store during night shifts so I can afford groceries. Rent money comes from disability benefits for bipolar disorder. It really is a shit life here in Nova Scotia, Canada, at least for me. I requested assisted suicide, but I no longer have power of decision. My decision maker is my father, who, as far as I can tell is in some kind of competition with me. He's in no state of mind to make my decisions, and if that's how bad things are, then they should let me have the assisted suicide. However, that's the malice inherent in the psychiatric system here, it's based on demoralizing and degrading employees as much as possible until they fall in line. Nazi medicine, is how it feels. Even if they were to let me have the assisted suicide, they wouldn't let me do it without putting me through as much hell as possible. It's not a compassionate system here, it's more like... a corporate structure nesting on the province using psychiatry and police as a kind of strong arm. Medicine being the arm of the state. It's really twisted, it's not a situation where I could happily do anything it seems. The music quality I've been producing has degraded in sound quality because that's how financially broken I've been, just got this shitty web cam and what's left of my musical equipment. I'm not looking for pity, no need to say sorry, but for the sake of my sanity I write this all out so it's plain as day.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
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Registered: 10/05/16
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Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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"Thought, in its birth, in its origin, in its content, in its expression, and in its action is very fascist. When I use the word fascist I use it not in the political sense but to mean that thought controls and shapes our thinking and our actions. So it is a very protective mechanism. It has no doubt helped us to be what we are today. It has helped us to create our high-tech and technology. It has made our life very comfortable. It has also made it possible for us to discover the laws of nature. But thought is a very protective mechanism and is interested in its own survival. At the same time, thought is opposed fundamentally to the functioning of this living organism." U.G. Krishnamurti, (Text sourced from https://www.organism.earth/library/document/natural-state-4)
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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BrendanFlock
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What does "the observer is the observed" mean to you guys?
I know Krishnamurti emphasized that point over and over..
I think part of it means to pay attention to self and others.
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syncro
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A meaning for me is that if we try to identify the subject, it becomes an object. Though subject-object blends anyway.
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Cory Duchesne
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said: What does "the observer is the observed" mean to you guys?
I know Krishnamurti emphasized that point over and over..
I think part of it means to pay attention to self and others.
Alan Watts: "That", not "is". Difference that identity, identity that difference. It means in relation to, goes with, necessarily involves, etc. When I first studied these things I was terribly bothered .. by.. how on earth how on earth I was going to see this multiple differentiated world as a unity. What would it be like to see all things as one? The sages keep saying all things are one, and they all looked to me so different. The whole world looked full of the most boney prickly differences. What is this experience of Nirvana, liberation supposed to be? A slug with a salt on it?
Music and photograph to go with "that":
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: syncro]
#28381032 - 07/01/23 05:54 AM (6 months, 25 days ago) |
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I guess it is amazing how objects are perceived from the background (unity) chorus of signals
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said: The ego doesn't want to hear the truth that sexual intercourse is exactly what it seems to be: for reproduction, love and family, not for pleasure or thrills.
Do you know that bonobos and dolphins have sexual intimacy for pleasure without reproduction?
This is a weirdly incel comment that has 1950s wife beater vibes.
It would certainly be delusional to think you have no chance of getting pregnant without birth control or condoms and having healthy bodies. Following cycles can only get you so far and is far from infallible.
Sex can result in pregnancy but it doesn't have to, and with good communication, trust and friendship, a casual relationship can blossom and bring joy to all partners involved. A commited one too.
Perhaps jealousy and fomo are big issues for some people, and I've struggled with them in the past, but being able to recognise them and valuing my own independence, I don't feel the associated ambivalence with them I used to, and it's moved beyond intimacy to benefit even my day to day living. Not feeling the ambivalence of fomo or jealousy for a myriad of general situations and encounters too.
Recognising red flags, standing up for your boundaries, having self respect and being able to walk away from a situation or person that goes beyond your boundaries is an important life skill to develop but it does take a lot of time and experience to grow.
This comes off hyper religious to me, almost like saying how marriage is only for one man and one woman, and how a woman's role is to be a birther.
Are you the kind of person who says it's selfish not to want to have kids?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Assisted suicide is for terminal patients in excruciating pain who will die in time and suffer thoroughly regardless.
Not for bipolar men who espouse sex as only being for reproduction.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28381571 - 07/01/23 04:27 PM (6 months, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Are you the kind of person who says it's selfish not to want to have kids?
I don't have any children myself, I've always used condoms, and I've only been with three ladies in my life time. I've never gotten a lady pregnant before, so abortion was never necessary. I've never had the financial or emotional stability to think having children is a good idea. I would only have children if it made sense, which it never did. I judge things by my personal level of happiness, which is hardly any happiness at all.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
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Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28381574 - 07/01/23 04:30 PM (6 months, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Assisted suicide is for terminal patients in excruciating pain who will die in time and suffer thoroughly regardless.
Not for bipolar men who espouse sex as only being for reproduction.
Yeah, assisted suicide is not an option for me, so I have no choice to keep on living. I would never try to commit suicide because the chances of it failing are too high. I read about Seneca slitting his wrists and not dying, so his daughters had to cut the tendons of his ankles. I know a guy who survived a suicide attempt. Suicide sounds difficult to pull off, so, I'm not in a position to do anything but continue to live.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28381650 - 07/01/23 05:33 PM (6 months, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Do you know that bonobos and dolphins have sexual intimacy for pleasure without reproduction?
“Being both more systematically brutal than chimps and more empathetic than bonobos, we are by far the most bipolar ape. Our societies are never completely peaceful, never completely competitive, never ruled by sheer selfishness, and never perfectly moral.” ― Frans de Waal
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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If J.K. is a con man, why do you have his quote in your sig?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28382004 - 07/02/23 02:43 AM (6 months, 24 days ago) |
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I like the part about fashionable stupidity
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
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Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28382108 - 07/02/23 06:24 AM (6 months, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: If J.K. is a con man, why do you have his quote in your sig?
Mostly a con man, and not in a way where he could help but be one. I would never quote Osho, because that guy is a lot more evil than good. I've deceived people without even trying to, so I would say I'm mostly a deceiver, though not setting out to do so deliberately. I've dropped the terms of endearment for people. I address them by their names, and leave it at that. Yesterday I watched a 7 year old spill a drink on a table, and then, hoping no one seen him to do it, he said, "am I the only one who noticed that spilled drink?"
"There were two Krishnamurtis. One was the persona presented to the world through lectures and books; a man with-out ego who led a sanctified life of celibacy and high moral purity. The other Krishnamurti was a shadowy, self-centered, vain man, capable of sudden angers and enormous cruelty to friends. He was also a habitual liar. Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said: ... Yesterday I watched a 7 year old spill a drink on a table, and then, hoping no one seen him to do it, he said, "am I the only one who noticed that spilled drink?"
...
the 7 year old's comment is perfectly astute. and that you watched it was perfect as well.
in a subsequent moment he felt responsible to speak out about the spill he may or may not have a clear recollection of causing the spill
it does not matter. that you saw the whole thing does not mean you saw what he was thinking during or after the spill.
Krishnamurti is a wank
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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If people had to be perfect to like them I would like no one including myself.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


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Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz] 1
#28382217 - 07/02/23 07:59 AM (6 months, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: If people had to be perfect to like them I would like no one including myself.
'Perfect' is one of those words people use to express their sense that one has complied or cooperated. I still hear (see) people say that word, it's the sound one makes when favorable news has been relayed. Mr. C: "I got that paper work done you asked for." Mr. J: "perfect".
But was it though? Is it really perfect? I see no evidence of perfect.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/02/23 09:00 AM)
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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I don't think compliance is a quality of perfection, but cooperation would be.
Humans aren't perfect. Turning paperwork in is when there's no other context involved.
"being entirely without fault or flaw"
If we modify the definition to "as good as it possibly can be" then everything is perfect just the way it is.
But it doesn't always seem that way. Complications and restlessness, deadlines, suffering. These are things one might find value in accepting about one's self and others while remaining curious. Although... not every period of life is or should be as such... because it's complicated and selfish and involves suffering and change.
There have been times in my life when I kept my head down and only spoke when spoken to if it seemed necessary. I suppose that was okay. Perfect in a sense. Or maybe terribly imperfect.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28382303 - 07/02/23 09:13 AM (6 months, 24 days ago) |
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Once I realized I couldn't depend on an exit strategy, such as suicide, or getting really high on cannabis, I stopped thinking of things in terms of choice. "I have no choice but to cooperate, or to get through this" is the dominating thought that gets me through the day, week, year. As for competition, I'm not sure I see the utility of it. I never met a very competitive person who I found to be anything other than self destructive, selfish, a nuisance, etc. I used to bring a board game around with me called go! (baduk, weiqi) and anytime family emailed me asking me to come visit, I would be bring the game, as well as being prepared to play basketball or hockey. It seemed to bring out the worst in them, as if old scores still weren't settled. I heard one psychologist (Sam Vaknin) say if you have to see family during the holidays, don't talk about sports or get involved in competitive games, because it will only exacerbate the psychological wounds and you'll see a nasty under current develop. He was right, my aunt, who was always bad tempered, started making snide remarks, and my cousin with her kids started also making painful remarks at me, as if I wasn't doing enough for them. I simply stopped showing up altogether. I just focus on the clock now, I show up on time, get my paycheck, and do everything I can to pay the bills. As for people and family, I hardly know how to pay any regard to them. I couldn't respect them even if I wanted to, and I can't seem to find it within me to love or respect hardly anyone. They all need free babysitting (very specific too) and other than that, it's someone whose a drunk nuisance, someone unaware of the embarrassing situation she's causing by expecting / wanting more from people, etc. I just do my work and go home. If I found out I got a lethal form of cancer that would kill me quickly I would feel quite fortunate.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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I think that desire for cancer is from a feeling that nothing will ever change. The world won't change. Individuals change sometimes but it's not reliable or something I can count on. Some people are a better bet than others but even when it seems like a good bet I like to frame it as hope without expectation. That might also be a way to think about one's own life.
In my 20's I had a group of friends around my age and we would hang out at this older guys house, Tim. He was about 30, plumber and volunteer fireman, big ego, would be all personable but he was a little too full of himself. Anyway, we invented a game called football soccer. It consisted of playing soccer on a 50 yard field with a football. Was serious. We built goals and put out chalk lines and was interesting because you could kick the football on the end and make it spin across the ground in a curve. Those games would get really intense and we ended up using a ref and even then there were arguments. It was mostly Tim even though his team won the majority of games anyway. After the games everyone would let it go and no big deal.
Anyway, the point is that Tim was an arrogant ass whether we had played the game or not. He would mack on other guy's girls, started doing crack at which point I disappeared from that scene. Later learned he had started cheating with his best friends wife. Got busted for crack. Lost his status as a fireman. I think he's probably changed but I have no desire to associate with him, yet although he was an easy guy to look down on for his arrogance there were reasons. I don't blame him for being a douche bag.
I have a couple life long friends from that group. One guy Shaun was the nice quite guy who didn't stick up for himself. Now he's owns his own business, married with two beautiful daughters and walks with a little swagger although he's still one of the nicest guys I know.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28382489 - 07/02/23 11:45 AM (6 months, 24 days ago) |
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00000 edited out, not in a good frame of mind.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/09/23 01:40 PM)
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
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Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28382519 - 07/02/23 12:07 PM (6 months, 24 days ago) |
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"I think in an interview what they essentially want to know is how big is your dick. Everything else is superfluous. It’s like, “Just tell us that, now.” Lou Reed: I’ve lied so much about the past, I can’t tell what is true any more
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Well, my early life experiences have similarities. I "got lucky" on various occasions. Was shy and prone to infatuation which is not a good combo. I was also a drunk and didn't feel I could handle a relationship.
I did resolve a lot of issues in my 30s via meditation though it wasn't a clear cut process from point A to B and something that is continuously refined. I just don't give myself a hard time. Wanting to know what is best and making decisions without absolute clarity is hard enough.
In principle I love everyone. Tim for instance, was the youngest of three brothers. The other two were flaming homosexuals and he was accepting of it in word but I think that might have had something to do with his hyper-dominance and sexuality. But really, who knows?
Respect is a different matter. Years ago when I found an interest in etymology I learned that respect means to "look again" which to me meant one doesn't have a static image of who a person is or what they're capable of. Tim for instance may have changed but I don't respect him enough to find out.
As far as motivation towards sexual activities, there is a lot of peer pressure among the young. The people I was closest to back then never did that. Some like Shaun were quiet guys. Another guy from those days was Dave who was a 1st string QB and good with the ladies, but he didn't act superior to Shaun or myself or peer pressure me with stuff like that.
I think humans have a dual nature when it comes to sexuality. Both guys and girls generally want a partner and stability, but guys want to spread their seed and girls may not find their security and their desire in the same package. It can get messy with hurt feelings. But I can decide what is right for myself and do my best to be that without expecting the world to follow.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended



Registered: 11/14/10
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Quote:
In the DSM-IV, spiritual problems are defined as distressing experiences that involve a person's relationship with a transcendent being or force but are not necessarily related to an organized church or religious institution. Sometimes such experiences emerge from intensive involvement with spiritual practices such as meditation or yoga, as in the Meditation and Spiritual Practice type of spiritual problem. The connection between spiritual emergences and psychological problems was first noted by Roberto Assagioli,MD who described how persons may become inflated and grandiose as a result of intense experiences associated with spiritual practices: Instances of such confusion are not uncommon among people who become dazzled by contact with truths too great or energies too powerful for their mental capacities to grasp and their personality to assimilate. [1] (p. 36) Beginning in the 1960s, interest in Asian spiritual practices such as meditation, yoga, and tai chi, as well as experimentation with psychedelic drugs, triggered many mystical experiences and visionary experiencies, some of which were problematic for their practitioners. Whereas spiritual masters have been warning their disciples for thousands of years about the dangers of playing with mystical states, the contemporary spiritual scene is like a candy store where any casual spiritual "tourist" can sample the "goodies" that promise a variety of mystical highs. When novices who don't have the proper education or guidance begin to naively and carelessly engage mystical experiences, they are playing with fire. Danger exists on the physical and psychological levels, as well as on the level of one's continued spiritual development. (Halfway Up the Mountain: The Error of Premature Claims to Enlightenment by Mariana Caplan) Christina Grof and Stanislav Grof,MD, coined the term "spiritual emergency" and founded the Spiritual Emergency Network at the Esalen Institute in 1980 to assist individuals and make referrals to therapists for people experiencing psychological difficulties associated with spiritual practices and spontaneous spiritual experiences. Dr. Grof describes a spiritual emergency: There exist spontaneous non-ordinary states that would in the west be seen and treated as psychosis, treated mostly by suppressive medication. But if we use the observations from the study of non-ordinary states, and also from other spiritual traditions, they should really be treated as crises of transformation, or crises of spiritual opening. Something that should really be supported rather than suppressed. If properly understood and properly supported, they are actually conducive to healing and transformation. (Interview with Stanislav Grof,MD) The term spiritual emergence is used to describe the whole range of phenomena associated with spiritual experiences and development from those (probably the vast majority) which are not problematic, do not disrupt psychological/social/occupational functioning and do not involve psychotherapy or any contact with the mental health system, to spiritual emergences that are full-blown crises requiring 24-hour care. David Steindl-Rast [2], a Benedictine monk who teaches spiritual practices, has also noted that spiritual emergence can be disruptive: Spiritual emergence is a kind of birth pang in which you yourself go through to a fuller life, a deeper life, in which some areas in your life that were not yet encompassed by this fullness of life are now integrated . . . Breakthroughs are often very painful, often acute and dramatic.
http://johnemackinstitute.org/dsmrsproblem.pdf
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
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Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28382550 - 07/02/23 12:24 PM (6 months, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Respect is a different matter. Years ago when I found an interest in etymology I learned that respect means to "look again" which to me meant one doesn't have a static image of who a person is or what they're capable of. Tim for instance may have changed but I don't respect him enough to find out.
I learned something new. I never thought of respect as "looking again". Respect and love are the two most difficult words, at least for me. I don't have a particularly stable financial situation, I never know for sure if I can afford groceries or rent, so when I "look again" it's often at my bank balance and then the various sources of income. I suppose I respect grocery stores and their suppliers. I respect farmers. I respect people who provide cleaning products, soaps, etc. But a banker is sometimes a guy who kind of forces or coerces you into looking, or who stares. It's not quite looking, but more like staring.
“The act of staring is a thing which one does not ordinarily do to another human being; it seems to put the object stared at in a class apart. One does not talk to a monkey in a zoo, or to a freak in a sideshow— one only stares.” ― Erving Goffman, Behavior in Public Places: Notes on the Social Organization of Gatherings
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
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Quote:
. He would mack on other guy's girls, started doing crack at which point I disappeared from that scene. Later learned he had started cheating with his best friends wife. Got busted for crack. Lost his status as a fireman. I think he's probably changed but I have no desire to associate with him, yet although he was an easy guy to look down on for his arrogance there were reasons..
"There is nothing more ill-bred than trying to steal the affections of someone else's dog." Robert Crawley, Earl of Grantham
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/03/23 02:53 AM)
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WhoManBeing
PsychedelicYogi



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 3,773
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 2 days, 22 hours
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How about TRUTH IN FAITH!
-------------------- Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!! Eye was thinking the other day... ahh, thinking never done me no good.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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sometimes the only truth is one's faith, and their faith blinds them to truths all around them.
this is a scenario for delusion.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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"We have all become prisoners of God, miraculously without knowing it." -- Carl Jung
"The most blatant manifestations of projections is in self righteous political convictions - isms - and in passionately advocated theories, such as scientific preconceptions. As soon as tolerance and humor disappear, we presume that projections have entered the picture." - Marie Louise von Franz
So after the birth of Apollo the terrible dragon Python pursued him in order to swallow him. And as soon as Christ was born, he narrowly escaped being killed by the Herodian mass murder of boys. ~Carl Jung, Visions Seminar, Page 591
lyrics by Jim Morrison:
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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"Your true nature is that of infinite spirit. The feeling of limitation is the work of the mind." Ramana Maharshi
"Nothing comes unannounced, but many can miss the announcement. So it's very mportant to actually listen to your own intuition rather than driving through it." - Terence McKenna
You see, we like to talk about the future, about what will happen tomorrow, or in ten years, but we are singularly unable to foresee or construct the future; we only see the past, though our interest seems to be in the future. While our unconscious, on the other hand, talks of the past and actually means the future, it is always anticipating and constructing the future. ~Carl Jung, Visions Seminar, Page 902
"Laziness of which there is no awareness is indeed laziness, but to be aware of laziness is the beginning of activity." —Krishnamurti
"The most blatant manifestations of projections is in self righteous political convictions - isms - and in passionately advocated theories, such as scientific preconceptions. As soon as tolerance and humor disappear, we presume that projections have entered the picture." - Marie Louise von Franz
Tao Te Ching, Seventy-three "A brave and passionate man will kill or be killed. A brave and calm man will always preserve life. Of these two which is good and which is harmful? Some things are not favored by heaven. Who knows why? Even the sage is unsure of this."
Q. If a soul dies in babyhood or childhood, it does not seem fair because it has not had enough experience of life to win realisation? A. You do not know the child’s viewpoint! Yours is simply of the intellect. We and our children are all from God and in God. God takes care of us and our children. Animals can think like human beings. We must not imagine they are senseless creatures. Some, who have associated in contact with people, can understand words and conversations. He pointed to cow and said she could think intelligently. Individual human beings have to suffer their karmas but Isvara manages to make the best of their karmas for His purpose. God manipulates the fruits of karma; He does not add or take away from it. The subconsciousness of man is a warehouse of good and bad karma, Isvara chooses from this warehouse what He sees will best suit the spiritual evolution at the time of each man whether pleasant or painful. Thus there is nothing arbitrary. ~Conscious Immortality: Conversations with Sri Ramana Maharshi
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Was asked, "why do you laugh alone?" His answer: "For that reason." Ever heard of the “laughing philosopher”? Democritus was born in an ancient Greek town called Abdera and nicknamed “the laughing philosopher” due to his cheerful personality. A curious man, he sought to understand people and the world. His curiosity led him to invent numerous theories, the biggest one being the theory of happiness. Here, he sought to understand what makes one happy, leading him to declare that happiness should be the highest, noblest goal of every man’s life. Democritus never married, but he enjoyed being alone with his thoughts. He hated overeating, alcoholism, and promiscuity. Avoiding these habits enabled Democritus to lead a happier life.
lyrics by Ramakrishna:
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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"The only thing that keeps me going is anger. I don't have any love in me at all. I hate community. Two things make me furious. Spiritualism, and community. People who talk about community want to manage other people. I grew up in a village. And people say that's a community, but it isn't. It's a lot of individuals, following the rules. And spiritualism, spiritual people are often very greedy, avaricious, and waste a hell of a lot of time. Nobody deserves what they are promised by spiritual people. And some people promise them eternal life. I think it's a horrific punishment to get eternal life, just ordinary people should never have such punishment visited on them." - Bill Mollison
"After a bitter quarrel, some resentment must remain. What can one do about it? Therefore the sage keeps his half of the bargain But does not exact his due. A man of Virtue performs his part, But a man without Virtue requires others to fulfill their obligations. The Tao of heaven is impartial. It stays with good men all the time." (Tao Te Ching, Seventy-nine)
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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“I would not give my rotating field discovery for a thousand inventions, however valuable, designed merely as mechanical contraptions to deceive the eye and the ear. A thousand years hence, the telephone and the motion picture camera may be obsolete, but the principle of the rotating magnetic field will remain a vital, living thing for all time to come.” –Nikola Tesla “A Famous Prophet of Science Looks Into the Future.” By Alden P. Armagnac. Popular Science Monthly, November, 1928.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
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Honesty is the best policy?
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
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Last seen: 2 days, 13 hours
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A better question is: what is the need to falsehood?
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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We want to see if we can make it real.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: syncro]
#28384452 - 07/04/23 05:37 AM (6 months, 22 days ago) |
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keep trying to see what is real - and just be a good host!
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said: A better question is: what is the need to falsehood?
Pretty sure it's envy/admiration, having what one's neighbor has, doing what other people are doing.
“[Freud] said once to Marie Bonaparte: 'The great question that has never been answered, and which I have not yet been able to answer, despite my thirty years of research into the feminine soul, is
"What does a woman want?”
― Sigmund Freud: Life and Work (Hogarth Press, 1953) by Ernest Jones, Vol. 2, Pt. 3, Ch
Answer: More.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said: Honesty is the best policy?

Fear of having one's deceptions detected would be the consequence of being a deceiver.
Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said:
Honesty is the best policy?

Dennis Miller once told Christopher Hitchens he believes honesty is the most overrated of all the virtues.
Made me chuckle. I can appreciate the sentiment.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Fifty-eight, Tao Te Ching
When the country is ruled with a light hand The people are simple. When the country is ruled with severity, The people are cunning.
Happiness is rooted in misery. Misery lurks beneath happiness. Who knows what the future holds? There is no honesty. Honesty becomes dishonest. Goodness becomes witchcraft. Man's bewitchment lasts for a long time.
Therefore the sage is sharp but not cutting, Pointed but not piercing, Straightforward but not unrestrained, Brilliant but not blinding.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
BrendanFlock said:
Honesty is the best policy?

Dennis Miller once told Christopher Hitchens he believes honesty is the most overrated of all the virtues.
Made me chuckle. I can appreciate the sentiment.
you have to be honest with yourself the rest is just life and nature.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said:
'Perfect' is one of those words people use to express their sense that one has complied or cooperated. I still hear (see) people say that word, it's the sound one makes when favorable news has been relayed. Mr. C: "I got that paper work done you asked for." Mr. J: "perfect".
AMEN! I can relate.
I once had a boss who would say "perfect" whenever I completed a task successfully. It always felt a gross and coercive. After all, no employee would want to fall into the opposite category! Let's see, the opposite of "perfect" is . . .
oh the horror
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
Cory Duchesne said:
'Perfect' is one of those words people use to express their sense that one has complied or cooperated. I still hear (see) people say that word, it's the sound one makes when favorable news has been relayed. Mr. C: "I got that paper work done you asked for." Mr. J: "perfect".
AMEN! I can relate.
I once had a boss who would say "perfect" whenever I completed a task successfully. It always felt a gross and coercive. After all, no employee would want to fall into the opposite category! Let's see, the opposite of "perfect" is . . .
oh the horror 
I just quit my job at the superstore (big corporate grocery store, night shift, stocking shelves, moving goods, etc.). I was surprised how many managers there were. The managers seemed to outnumber the ordinary workers. After about 4 weeks of a few misunderstandings, and even an insult (dummy), one of the managers approached me as I was getting off work, and said, "I've been watching you in the aisles, you're slow as molasses. Pick up the pace, or else I'm going to have let you go." He basically threatened to fire me if I didn't move faster.
I texted two of the managers the next day, and said I quit, I will be buying groceries elsewhere, and that's a promise not a threat.
I match every threat with a promise. Anyone who tries to threaten me, I can promise you I will take my business elsewhere.
I'm thankful I don't have children. The corporate work place doesn't really have a place for people like me. It's for people who have kids and talk about their kids.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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BrendanFlock
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said: Fifty-eight, Tao Te Ching
When the country is ruled with a light hand The people are simple. When the country is ruled with severity, The people are cunning.
Happiness is rooted in misery. Misery lurks beneath happiness. Who knows what the future holds? There is no honesty. Honesty becomes dishonest. Goodness becomes witchcraft. Man's bewitchment lasts for a long time.
Therefore the sage is sharp but not cutting, Pointed but not piercing, Straightforward but not unrestrained, Brilliant but not blinding.
I'm not die.. I am a daoist but this seems like a pile of confusion.
Dissociation..
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Cory Duchesne
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said:
Quote:
Cory Duchesne said: Fifty-eight, Tao Te Ching
When the country is ruled with a light hand The people are simple. When the country is ruled with severity, The people are cunning.
Happiness is rooted in misery. Misery lurks beneath happiness. Who knows what the future holds? There is no honesty. Honesty becomes dishonest. Goodness becomes witchcraft. Man's bewitchment lasts for a long time.
Therefore the sage is sharp but not cutting, Pointed but not piercing, Straightforward but not unrestrained, Brilliant but not blinding.
I'm not die.. I am a daoist but this seems like a pile of confusion.
Dissociation..
Two things: One, he might have been referring to how being verbally honest makes one vulnerable to unfair and unjust response, two, he might have been referring to how some people need to be deceived or else they resort to threats and manipulation. Deception is one of those things that is demanded by some, they don't function without being deceived. And the more the country is ruled by severity, the more of necessity it is to deceive. Yes, that would mean confusion, complexity and disassociation for the ones ruling with severity. As for the one's doing the deceiving, they would also be harmed by their deceptions (fear). I've read stories about persecution in totalitarian states, and it was deemed necessary to deceive nazis, otherwise, the honesty would be taken advantage of for the persecution to be executed completely (kidnapping, ransom, etc).
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/06/23 04:06 AM)
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Cory Duchesne
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Vera Sharav joins Eric Metaxas (on Authority)
"Vera Sharav joins Eric Metaxas to describes her escape from a Nazi concentration camp as a child and immigrating to New York. Sharav opens up about what led her to medical activism and also shares her warning to Americans about the parallels she sees between the U.S. and Nazi Germany." [copied] View full episodes of Eric Metaxas for FREE on the TBN App:
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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spinvis
Stranger

Registered: 09/15/20
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I would be confused too reading that translation. 
Let's see what one of the scholarly translations looks like, including commentary:
Quote:
58 1. When the government (cheng) is dull, Its people are wholesome; When the government is efficient (ch'a), Its people are deficient (ch'ueh).
2. Calamities (huo) are what blessings depend on, In blessings are latent calamities (huo). Who knows where is the turning point (chi)?
3. Because there is no longer the normal (cheng), The normal reverts and appears as the strange (ch'i), The good reverts and appears as the uncanny. Rulers (jen) have lost their way, For a long stretch of days.
4. Therefore the sage is square but not cutting (ko), Sharp but not injurious, Straight but not overreaching, Bright (kuang) but not dazzling.
General Comment This chapter follows the preceding chapter in both terminologies and ideas. The tone is somewhat pessimistic. It extols the virtues of an inactive government, which, alas, had become rare.
Detailed Comment 1. The Tao Te Ching believes that the development of intelligence results in the loss of the original goodness of nature. A dull and sleepy government does not encourage its citizens to sharpen their wits, thus preserving them in the wholesomeness of nature. A smart and efficient government awakens its citizens to competition, envy, and struggle; thereby they become deficient in natural goodness. In this way a supposedly desirable event (development of intelligence) results in something regrettable (loss of the original goodness of nature).
2. The turning of the round can be illustrated even in political matters. What seems to be a misfortune (dull government) brings about a blessing (whole some citizens), while what seems to be a blessing (efficient government) actually leads to misfortune (deficient citizens). Thus the wheel of fortune turns. What appears a blessing at the moment may turn out to be a misfortune, while what appears to be a misfortune now may prove later a blessing in disguise. Chapter 18 of the Huai-nan Tzu tells the story of an old man at the border who, armed with the insight that blessings and misfortunes have a way of turning into each other, met both with equanimity (SPTK, 18/6a).
3. Some translators have found these seemingly enigmatic lines unintelligible. If we connect them with the preceding chapter (57.1) the meaning is quite clear. The Tao Te Ching laments that things have come to such a state that what is normal (a dull and peaceful government) is now perceived as abnormal, while what is abnormal (government engaged in constant warfare) is now accepted as normal. Jen here means rulers. Thinking that they must enlarge their territory, institute new laws, inspire the people to revolutionary zeal, etc., they have lost their way.
4. Only the sage encompasses the opposites within himself. Embracing in himself both heaven (round) and earth (square), he is a square whose corners do not cut (ch. 41), a sharp knife that does not injure, a straightness that curls itself up so that it is not overreaching (ch. 45), and a brightness that abides in the dark Tao (ch. 41). The sage, by holding on to both poles, is able to avoid harming his people (ch. 60).
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: spinvis]
#28387896 - 07/07/23 03:46 AM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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ve·nal showing or motivated by susceptibility to bribery. "their generosity had been at least partly venal"
"Everything that you have conquered has enslaved you. Can you have insight if there is a centre?" - J.K.
"But we cannot live without accepting the tragedy of life, and one of the problems of life is that we cannot live and flourish without being trapped; no matter what we do we are trapped, and the ultimate result is that one is buried in a hole in the ground." - Carl Jung, Visions Seminar, page 1124
lyrics by Highwaymen
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: spinvis] 1
#28392238 - 07/11/23 08:46 AM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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"If you give the average man a choice between (a) ideas based on sound scholarship and (b) bullshit that taps into popular man-in-the-street prejudices, he'll take the bullshit every time. Successful politicians understand this prevailing inclination and exploit it." Robert Higgs
"The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety." H. L. Mencken
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said: "If you give the average man a choice between (a) ideas based on sound scholarship and (b) bullshit that taps into popular man-in-the-street prejudices, he'll take the bullshit every time. Successful politicians understand this prevailing inclination and exploit it." Robert Higgs
"The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety." H. L. Mencken
these foibles are germaine these days more than ever before. thus a clue can be glommed as to how should ai be programmed: prioritize countering bullshit and fear with easily accessible sound ideas and healthy confidence.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said:
"The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety." H. L. Mencken

Reminds me of the wisdom of insecurity.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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I have not studied the inferior man, but it sounds like an unnecessary derogatory statement.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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It's OVER 9000!!!
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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DisoRDeR
motional



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My ears perk up at conversations about faith.
I have an inclination to reframe faith as a curious, receptive orientation rather than a grasping relationship to something, which is how I often see it used. People of 'faith' can get confident and uncurious, explaining truth away.
Faith in truth I kinda jive with because the truth is always arriving in a torrential fashion.
People be drowning God is a helmet People be splashing With room to breathe
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: DisoRDeR]
#28394780 - 07/13/23 09:06 PM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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Faith in truth sounds blind to me.
If faith is blind by nature, and it's aimed at truth? It's unquestioning belief?!
How is that what we're to strive towards?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28394793 - 07/13/23 09:25 PM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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what is truth?
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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The most universally convincing probability, usually within a scientific framework.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,561
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28394914 - 07/14/23 01:21 AM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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Truth is different for everyone, but some people are wrong.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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The most universally potent probability of something isn't different for everyone. You can choose not to believe it, but when that probability is potentiated by evidence to a certain degree, the doubtful have no leg to stand on.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28394925 - 07/14/23 01:58 AM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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The most universally potent probability is different for everyone. If my life experiences and all the evidence I've gathered up to this point indicated that all purple dogs bite, and I've never seen evidence to the contrary, that may be a truth to me until I have evidence to the contrary. If 100 people have this same experience with purple dogs, and 5 people who have gone to other countries where purple dogs do not bite, the most universally potent probability remains false, and not universally probable for any of the 5 whom have seen otherwise.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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The absence of evidence certainly does not serve as evidence for the presence of something. Without concrete evidence or credible sources supporting the claim of all purple dogs bite, it would indeed remain speculative and unsubstantiated. This line of reasoning can be seen as an example of the argument from ignorance fallacy, as it incorrectly assumes that the lack of explicit refutation implies the truth of the claim. Such a claim requires substantiated evidence rather than mere speculation or assumptions based on the absence of evidence.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28394960 - 07/14/23 03:33 AM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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I see the problem. The Truth Issues that are Faith oriented are not within the domain of probability assessment, nor are they arranged so as to be tested for reliability.
Instead we see bouquets of favored beliefs that are qualified only by who does the favoring.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
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Faith in truth seems similar to "honesty is the best policy".
One may not know how that will work out but sticking to a principle could be more important than a specific outcome, otherwise said the outcome is presumed to be the best because it's based in honesty.
But truth is not always an easy thing to know so "faith in truth" is a curious phrase. Thought provoking, yet not satisfying to the logical mind as truth is a variable of knowledge that one want's to know rather than have faith in.
I tend to classify knowledge as simply information (true knowledge/false knowledge).
One can have faith in knowledge with the logical mind feeling confident it has been vetted properly. But if knowledge fails the logical mind should acknowledge it was apparently false and truth is once again sought, or supposed that perhaps it will come to light with time.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28395083 - 07/14/23 07:40 AM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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If sticking to a belief or certain principle is more important than the outcome, then there you have a tribalistic mindset imo, and a big problem with organised religion.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28395088 - 07/14/23 07:44 AM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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I believe it is important to relax and be honest about what is perceived. i.e not be defensive, and know that even what is perceived is not necessarily true.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Tell me the earth is flat and I will usually walk away.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly] 1
#28395132 - 07/14/23 08:23 AM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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what if the earth is flat for 1000 feet, you know, a concept within a context.
the earth being flat seems to be a context free abstraction. flat earthers lack the sense of scope, scale, and granularity, etc.
It is not contagious, you need not walk away, but if possible let them see the box they are in - let them out of confining ignorance of the scale of things.
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
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it's stupid because when you fly you can see the curvature of the earth
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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good point about perspective, F!
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DisoRDeR
motional



Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28395346 - 07/14/23 12:09 PM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
If faith is blind by nature
This is where I rearrange faith. It is open and receptive with all the lensing and discrimination intact. It is humble and curious yet naturally builds frameworks and burns them down again.
I hear what you're saying about belief. Faith and belief are increasingly far apart for me, though belief can be a vehicle to facilitate faith.

Belief is the capsule, faith is taking a stance to meet Frieza.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: DisoRDeR]
#28395347 - 07/14/23 12:09 PM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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truth, as in - universal truthfulness, possibly.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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so it is a symbol of the struggle we face to keep our eyes open etc.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi


Registered: 08/16/16
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Taken too far on its own truth falls apart on itself. So, yes, as a symbol & much like toward as you've said it. 
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (07/14/23 01:10 PM)
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended



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How exactly do you define Faith? Is it more than the possibility for something to be real/fact?
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
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thanks red finding my center soon next year will be much better for all you i got it from a redgreenvines post looking so much forward to it i always have finding my center as a plan b or extra asset or asset that i can rely on that will produce good or having found my center
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: what if the earth is flat for 1000 feet, you know, a concept within a context.
the earth being flat seems to be a context free abstraction. flat earthers lack the sense of scope, scale, and granularity, etc.
It is not contagious, you need not walk away, but if possible let them see the box they are in - let them out of confining ignorance of the scale of things.
If someone said that, it wouldn't be calling the earth flat. Same goes for astrology, I just don't entertain it anymore nowadays and don't have intentions to change people, so I generally don't involve myself with people who espouse such ideas.
I do enjoy hearing and sharing alternative perspectives in general if the other person is also capable of regulating their emotions without becoming aggressively defensive, and a part of that is trying to come from my own understanding perspective of different views and experiences.
I just think it's generally more effort than it's worth to associate with people I know I have fundamentally conflicting views with, at least in person. Online at least the foundations of someone's beliefs are usually able to be revealed.
I like reflective interactions but sometimes that doesn't happen and that's okay.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: DisoRDeR]
#28395979 - 07/15/23 04:34 AM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
DisoRDeR said:
Quote:
If faith is blind by nature
This is where I rearrange faith. It is open and receptive with all the lensing and discrimination intact. It is humble and curious yet naturally builds frameworks and burns them down again.
I hear what you're saying about belief. Faith and belief are increasingly far apart for me, though belief can be a vehicle to facilitate faith.

Belief is the capsule, faith is taking a stance to meet Frieza.
Not sure what you mean by referring to discrimination being intact for faith.
If you are referring to a fluidity in faith, that's interesting.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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DisoRDeR
motional



Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28396039 - 07/15/23 06:39 AM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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Maybe discernment is a more appropriate term and less loaded with problematic associations.
Fluidity in faith works for me. Even ardent believers, if being honest, acknowledge an evolution or shedding of their ideas of relationship to being over time. I like what the blind ass said about truth falling apart.
After my previous post I was reflecting on faith as a balanced ground state, inclined slightly forward, something returned to between getting caught up in things, a sort of razor’s edge perch in presence which doesn’t stray too far into hopefulness or hopelessness because it doesn’t know much beyond its horizon, that place where nothing matters yet all moments are critical. An omnidirectional orientation which holds space for focusing in.
I’m on about that sort of thing.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: DisoRDeR]
#28396056 - 07/15/23 07:12 AM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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I woke up this morning went downstairs first thing and poured myself a cup and then hopped on the shroomery and read a part from a purported saying attributed to someone and then I woke up again.
Quote:
'Self-clinging is like being caught in a noose: The self is bound to the prison of samsara. Now, it is best to transform phenomena into dharmakāya By not being attached to anything.'
and now, i'm sensibly stupidly happy within.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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a gift I woke up watching mental contents and my breath and changing
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28396100 - 07/15/23 08:07 AM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
If someone said that, it wouldn't be calling the earth flat. Same goes for astrology, I just don't entertain it anymore nowadays and don't have intentions to change people, so I generally don't involve myself with people who espouse such ideas.
Using that approach, I'd never involve myself with another person. I now try to care less about the opinions and beliefs of others. If you choose to believe in fairies, goblins, and garden elves, that's none of my business. Caring less in this way can be a cobblestone on the pathway to freedom.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: DisoRDeR]
#28396107 - 07/15/23 08:14 AM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
DisoRDeR said: Maybe discernment is a more appropriate term and less loaded with problematic associations.
Fluidity in faith works for me. Even ardent believers, if being honest, acknowledge an evolution or shedding of their ideas of relationship to being over time. I like what the blind ass said about truth falling apart.
After my previous post I was reflecting on faith as a balanced ground state, inclined slightly forward, something returned to between getting caught up in things, a sort of razor’s edge perch in presence which doesn’t stray too far into hopefulness or hopelessness because it doesn’t know much beyond its horizon, that place where nothing matters yet all moments are critical. An omnidirectional orientation which holds space for focusing in.
I’m on about that sort of thing.
I would say that faith in religion doesn't have a foundationally substantiated level of discernment relative to the scientific framework. If there is a kind of evolving faith, then what are those evolutions based upon if not in reference to the scientific framework?
While the scientific framework relies on empirical evidence, objective observation, and verifiable data, faith in religion often operates within a different realm. It encompasses subjective experiences, personal beliefs, and the quest for spiritual or transcendent truths that may not be readily quantifiable or directly measurable by scientific methods.
I would suggest that faith, when regarded as an absolute or unwavering belief, can be seen as extreme due to its uncompromising nature. As to imply that an absolutist approach to faith may not leave room for questioning, growth, or adaptation.
I do think of your suggestion of evolving faith as a more abstract concept compared to a generic understanding of faith, because I'd consider evolving faith to be less concrete or well defined, as it potentially encompasses a broader range of experiences, beliefs, and growth over time.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
sudly said:
If someone said that, it wouldn't be calling the earth flat. Same goes for astrology, I just don't entertain it anymore nowadays and don't have intentions to change people, so I generally don't involve myself with people who espouse such ideas.
Using that approach, I'd never involve myself with another person. I now try to care less about the opinions and beliefs of others. If you choose to believe in fairies, goblins, and garden elves, that's none of my business. Caring less in this way can be a cobblestone on the pathway to freedom.
I did pretty clearly say,
Quote:
I just think it's generally more effort than it's worth to associate with people I know I have fundamentally conflicting views with, at least in person.
I'm happy to be colloquial with anyone of sort, but friendship with such an individual can be difficult from my perspective as the commonalities generally aren't there, and extended it just means I don't want to pursue a relationship with such people because it's simply not what I want.
That said, there are plenty of agreeable individuals I've met, and am still very much involved with.
To say that if you used that approach you'd never involve yourself with another person is hopelessly sad from my perspective. I mean I just have boundaries and respect certain perspectives on life. Plenty of people do.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Rahz
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28396188 - 07/15/23 09:19 AM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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An interesting aspect of flat Earthers is that they do make some good points regarding 3rd party information. While it's preposterous it's still a good lesson in what's self evident via logic vs taken on faith. They'll argue all day questioning 3rd party info, but when you suggest something like watching the sunlight descend a building on an East coast in the morning they generally vanish.
It's polarizing in social media because the topic is what draws people to conversation and is very compartmentalized. I can't say I've met flat Earthers in person. There's no interesting outcome in bringing it up, though that's only after extensive correspondence with flat Earthers online. It was fascinating at first.
It's generally the same with the religious and etc.
If I don't know they're a fundamentalist they might be okay.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28396201 - 07/15/23 09:23 AM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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Define third party information.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28396202 - 07/15/23 09:23 AM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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Wisdom's Wisdom. Sometimes it gets spread out clean & evenly, other times not so much.
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Rahz
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28396354 - 07/15/23 11:29 AM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Define third party information.
Information not coming from one's own observation. The Bible, photos from space, etc.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28396362 - 07/15/23 11:34 AM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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How could you think flat earthers make good points regarding third party information, like an example?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28396396 - 07/15/23 11:58 AM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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to the flat earther, endless travel east or west does not bring you back to your starting point, it takes you to alternate universes where all your wishes come true. falling off the edge is so 15th century, the new flat earth is technically advanced.
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Rahz
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28396422 - 07/15/23 12:18 PM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: How could you think flat earthers make good points regarding third party information, like an example?
By pointing out that third party evidence is taken on faith. A picture of the Earth from space for instance.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: to the flat earther, endless travel east or west does not bring you back to your starting point, it takes you to alternate universes where all your wishes come true. falling off the edge is so 15th century, the new flat earth is technically advanced.
Yep, they question 3rd party information unless it supports their theory.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28396689 - 07/15/23 04:20 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
sudly said: How could you think flat earthers make good points regarding third party information, like an example?
By pointing out that third party evidence is taken on faith. A picture of the Earth from space for instance.
The point isn't to blindly believe that a picture from Earth is true on faith alone.
There is a reason to believe there are pictures of the Earth as taken from satellites orbiting in or travelling through space.
Third party evidence isn't blindly accepted, it's merited.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Rahz
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28396720 - 07/15/23 04:59 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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Duh. The point is merit is primarily based on more 3rd party information, appeals to authority and various other things they easily take exception to. NASA lies, etc.
They may even ask for examples when replying to a post in which I gave examples!
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28396744 - 07/15/23 05:21 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Duh. The point is merit is primarily based on more 3rd party information, appeals to authority and various other things they easily take exception to. NASA lies, etc.
They may even ask for examples when replying to a post in which I gave examples! 
Accepting photographs of Earth from space is not an appeal to authority fallacy, as it goes beyond blindly accepting authority. It involves considering the scientific consensus and the weight of evidence supporting the claim. Scientific consensus reflects the collective expertise, research, and evidence based conclusions of a broad community of scientists. It emerges from rigorous scrutiny, testing, and replication of findings across disciplines.
The credibility of the evidence is further supported by independent verification from multiple space agencies, scientists, researchers, and amateur astronomers. This diverse range of sources adds to such photographs' credibility. Faith is not ubiquitous or required to believe in the existence of images of Earth from space.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Rahz
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28396752 - 07/15/23 05:33 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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I didn't say it was a fallacy, but it is an appeal to authority all the same no matter how fancy you make it sound, and no I don't think such information should be point blank discarded. The point I made is that there are simple experiments which can provide first hand evidence and my experience has been that when providing such examples the flat Earther will slink away rather than try and refute it.
That's not the same as them admitting the Earth is spherical which is why I generally don't engage with them any more... which is the context in which I made the comments in the first place.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28396770 - 07/15/23 05:51 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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So you agree faith is not required to believe in the existence of photos of Earth from space.
While it is important to question the validity and reliability of information from various sources, relying solely on personal interpretations of evidence can inevitably introduce biases. Evaluating evidence through rigorous scientific processes, peer review, and independent verification helps mitigate these biases and ensures a more objective assessment of the information.
Sometimes a point is made without the other person having to admit to it.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Rahz
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28396791 - 07/15/23 06:13 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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Is the difference between confidence and faith a matter of comfortable semantics?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28396903 - 07/15/23 09:02 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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The difference between confidence and faith is that confidence relies on empirical evidence, while faith can involve elements beyond empirical validation. Confidence leans towards evidence based reasoning, while faith can extend beyond empirical evidence.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Freedom
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from an absolute perspecive, there isn't anything that can be confirmed because I can't step outside of my mind and compare it to something else. I can't even confirm that I existed at the begining of this sentence.
From a relative perspective, truth is whatever I appear to believe. Everything is interconnected so the cause of my belief is ultimately everything. The mind breaks things into imaginary chunks and ignores the vast unknown between the chunks, and creates a little story of how it came to believe something.
These stories shape our lives and our perception of our lives. In this sense truth is not truth but a lense with which the universe sees itself through our lives. Humans are like a collection of distorted fun house mirrors for the universe. The nature of perception is persepctive. Like from the ground the earth looks flat, imagining a new perspective we imagine a circular orbit, then a parabolic one, then a vortex. Everthing we think see touch hear smell is a limited perspective, perhaps at best a partial differential equation, a particular cross section of a bit of 'reality', if such a thing exists. I doubt its ever so clean, always a warped partial differential equation, often with a dash or handful or a galaxy full of imagination
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sudly
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
#28397009 - 07/15/23 11:11 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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What do you think the probability of the Sun moving over the horizon from East to West tomorrow is?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Freedom
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28397011 - 07/15/23 11:14 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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From an ultimate perspective probability doesn't exist as everything is an n of 1
from a relative perspictive 99.9999999
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Freedom
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
#28397012 - 07/15/23 11:16 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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also, this is difficult to see, but from an ultimate perspecive everything is an n of 0, since by the time you see it, its gone
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
#28397018 - 07/15/23 11:27 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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What does the moon do when you look away from it?
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redgreenvines
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
#28397188 - 07/16/23 05:05 AM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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there is no such thing as an ultimate perspective, and if at the end of this sentence I am not the same me as at the beginning, I am not in the least surprised.
however, the same connected body and mind are sitting here in the bath typing on the same keyboard, which certainly gives the illusion of a persisting self in many perspectives other than views that subtend from Anattā (which themselves are also not ultimate views either).
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Freedom
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thats true, there's actually no way I know of to name the perspective im refering too
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redgreenvines
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
#28399007 - 07/17/23 04:44 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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with your reference then, are you pointing at an imaginary direction?
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See_Ya_207
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Harsh!
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redgreenvines
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? what is your interpretation?
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sudly
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Of the absolute, ultimate, relative perspective!
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Freedom
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language is limited to is or is not
things are and are not
I probably shouldn't have mentioned it, its not easy to see
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
#28399323 - 07/17/23 11:42 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Partial differential equations and everything as an n of 0 seem like pretty specific language, yet I have no idea what you're on about with their use 
Especially with an absolute, ultimate, and relative perspective.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
#28399395 - 07/18/23 04:35 AM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said: language is limited to is or is not
things are and are not
I probably shouldn't have mentioned it, its not easy to see
you can have a favorite idea, even if it does not make sense, but if you think yours does make sense you really must expand on the meaning; afaik ultimate means last of all iterations, do you want to apply this word or is it some other word that has a similar hierarchical feeling rank with which to underscore how impressed you are with this favorite idea that still does not come through in your 13 word explanation?
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Freedom
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i already agreed with you, ultimate was a poor word choice, especially without much context. was meant to be just a foot note in case someone got it
everything is not separate from nothing, ether you get it or don't, language can't get at this
I'm not sure what your getting at with 'favorite word', but i lose interest in the conversation real fast when the other person starts analyzing me rather than engaging with the ideas
Edited by Freedom (07/18/23 07:05 PM)
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redgreenvines
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
#28400110 - 07/18/23 07:55 PM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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me too, sorry to drag it on
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
#28400126 - 07/18/23 08:31 PM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said: i already agreed with you, ultimate was a poor word choice, especially without much context. was meant to be just a foot note in case someone got it
everything is not separate from nothing, ether you get it or don't, language can't get at this
I'm not sure what your getting at with 'favorite word', but i lose interest in the conversation real fast when the other person starts analyzing me rather than engaging with the ideas
I don't know what ideas your words are referencing, it has nothing to do with analysing you, but trying to see what you're talking about.
E.g. the underlined doesn't mean anything to me? What's it referring to? What is any of it about?
Are you just backtracking your use of the ultimate, epic, super perspectives as just word play? Or did you have any real meaning behind them?
You want to pull up equations and fanciful terms for perspectives then not clarify on any of it?
If you feel analysed here, just clarify the meaning of the words you're using so that no one has to question what you're on about.
And if you want to cop out and just say you feel analysed so you're out then you so that, but if so, it's as the saying goes, 'sad'.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28400437 - 07/19/23 07:56 AM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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Appearances appear and disappear. Truth is appearance. Faith, as I understand it, is future oriented. Faith is the word we use to guide the appearances of the present into what may appear in the future. I used to collect leftover apples at an apple farm. The apple orchard owner was questioned about how he liked the business of owning and farming an orchard. He said, "you have to have the faith of a Baptist." Hunters, farmers and food suppliers are faith oriented, they understand the appearances of the present and apply the knowledge they have of the future. Knowledge of the future is mostly applied to agriculture, fishing, hunting, etc. You have to have faith in what you know to be true.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
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What does it mean to be of bad faith?
bad faith. 1) n. intentional dishonest act by not fulfilling legal or contractual obligations, misleading another, entering into an agreement without the intention or means to fulfill it, or violating basic standards of honesty in dealing with others.
Faith can be a tremendous source of agony if you get on the bad side of it. Better to talk and act in good faith. If something doesn't seem true to you, it's better to just say plainly: this doesn't look like someone I want to have sex with, etc.
Some engage in sexual intercourse for the sheer thrill, romance and poetry, which means, condoms and abortions. I say these people are acting in bad faith. They need protection.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/19/23 08:01 AM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Just have hope and try to take the silver linings of different experiences.
Like hey, I'm attracted to that person, we've had a good time, maybe we'll miss maybe we won't, if things go that way neat, if not nothing changes.
Condoms and and contraceptives are protection and consenting adults with good communication who enjoy eachothers company are mutually attracted and want the same thing can have casual dalliances from time to time without it needing to be thought of as a sin.
If you think having safe sex is acting in bad faith then you my friend sound like you're projecting hard.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28403899 - 07/22/23 01:25 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
If you think having safe sex is acting in bad faith then you my friend sound like you're projecting hard.
The truth is: it's none of my business what two consenting adults do with contraceptives'. I have faith in what is true, which is: other people's actions are out of my control. Unless you break rules we all share. The point of rules is to control what violates the rules. What are the rules as they relate to faith? Is projecting hard a break in the rules?
Coach Wooden Original Course Feb. 19, 2002:
It appears propaganda comes from the need to project. Propaganda is about bending people's perception of what is real.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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redgreenvines
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I would be surprised if your actions are or were ever under control. What you do do and what you don't do are a consequence of perceived suitability in the situation.
Any extra layer of suppression or restraint is only required if you have no clue of where you are.
In that case it still is not a matter of control, it is an issue of suppression until the context becomes different, or until your ability to suppress what you think is suitable fatigues, and somebody gets their toes stepped on or worse.
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28403926 - 07/22/23 01:46 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Condoms and and contraceptives are protection and consenting adults with good communication who enjoy each others company are mutually attracted and want the same thing can have casual dalliances from time to time without it needing to be thought of as a sin.
Surely it's okay, but as an act of faith, surely there must be some sense that something isn't good? I've never known a user of contraceptives, pull out method or whatever it is (abortion) to have a particular good or positive view of their life situation. It's an act of bad faith. Or, the faith in what is good seems somehow out of reach, therefore, one resorts to contraceptives to avoid the bad and to make a claim of what's good or great.
....
For what is modesty but hypocritical humility, by means of which, in a world swelling with vile envy, a man seeks to beg pardon for his excellences and merits from those who have none? For whoever attributes no merit to himself because he really has none is not modest, but merely honest. —Arthur Schopenhauer
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/22/23 01:48 PM)
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
#28403935 - 07/22/23 01:50 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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“Be silent and listen: have you recognized your madness and do you admit it? Have you noticed that all your foundations are completely mired in madness? Do you not want to recognize your madness and welcome it in a friendly manner? You wanted to accept everything. So accept madness too. Let the light of your madness shine, and it will suddenly dawn on you. Madness is not to be despised and not to be feared, but instead you should give it life...If you want to find paths, you should also not spurn madness, since it makes up such a great part of your nature...Be glad that you can recognize it, for you will thus avoid becoming its victim. Madness is a special form of the spirit and clings to all teachings and philosophies, but even more to daily life, since life itself is full of craziness and at bottom utterly illogical. Man strives toward reason only so that he can make rules for himself. Life itself has no rules. That is its mystery and its unknown law. What you call knowledge is an attempt to impose something comprehensible on life.” ― C.G. Jung, The Red Book: A Reader's Edition
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
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"Discipline is not the same as punishment. Children cry out for discipline, they need discipline, not punishment." - John Wooden
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said:
Quote:
sudly said:
Condoms and and contraceptives are protection and consenting adults with good communication who enjoy each others company are mutually attracted and want the same thing can have casual dalliances from time to time without it needing to be thought of as a sin.
Surely it's okay, but as an act of faith, surely there must be some sense that something isn't good? I've never known a user of contraceptives, pull out method or whatever it is (abortion) to have a particular good or positive view of their life situation. It's an act of bad faith. Or, the faith in what is good seems somehow out of reach, therefore, one resorts to contraceptives to avoid the bad and to make a claim of what's good or great.
Look man, being vulnerable enough to face rejection can atleast provide some certainty about the situation, but sometimes plans change in good meaning and if you respond calmly and understandingly still wanting to reschedule, it can help building trust between partners.
It's going to happen, but if you don't shoot your shot sometimes you won't be making steps forward, in my experience it's been that way.
I've known people exceptionally relieved to use a plan b after unprotected sex, and the pull out method is why a mate has 3 kids.
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that users of contraceptives don't have a positive outlook on life, at least the ones you know, which may be true, but that sounds very specific and kind of sad.
Contraceptives and condoms make for safe protection and a more relaxed encounter for many. Regular health testing is great too.
Not everyone wants or can have kids, let alone would be able to cope raising them. I personally don't see how your use of the word faith is relevant to this at all outside of what you or your peers personally want to see as a cultural practice.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


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Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28404081 - 07/22/23 03:20 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Thanks for your patience. I have never understood the duality of bad faith versus good faith. I correct whatever errors I've discovered.
I just listened to John Wooden talk about how he met a guy who thought joy was beating an opponent by a large margin, like the joy of winning a basketball game 130-70 or something like that. Wooden retorted: Joy is in a fair match up, where both teams compete closely and at a similar level, joy is in the competition, and does not lie in beating another by a large margin.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended



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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28404083 - 07/22/23 03:21 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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BIRTH CONTROL FTW!
Beating an opponent by a large margin is GLORY, IME/O.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


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Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly] 1
#28404088 - 07/22/23 03:24 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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I'm going to give Sudly an honorary video for his fine examples of good faith:
&ab_channel=Kierkegaard73
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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I had a change of heart. I'm going to say: birth control is a good idea, congrats to everyone who has had a worthwhile experience. Here's a video about faith.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said: Thanks for your patience. I have never understood the duality of bad faith versus good faith. I correct whatever errors I've discovered.
I just listened to John Wooden talk about how he met a guy who thought joy was beating an opponent by a large margin, like the joy of winning a basketball game 130-70 or something like that. Wooden retorted: Joy is in a fair match up, where both teams compete closely and at a similar level, joy is in the competition, and does not lie in beating another by a large margin.
Just a good interaction can be joyful, spending time doing things you want, exploring new places, learning new things, developing new skills etc.
To say something is done in bad faith I think means to do something with intent to misconcieve or trick for personal gain, women often have to find strategies to deal with intrusive behaviour from men on dating apps or in person.
Doing something in good faith may be having a desire for connection but understanding that everyone has their own life, experiences and degrees of trust with the people they meet. I think doing something in good faith is being willing to be adaptable and accept changes in changing circumstances or preferences.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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the horse and the people are beautiful don't worry I'm wearing a condom.
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_ 🧠 _
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended



Registered: 11/14/10
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


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Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28404136 - 07/22/23 04:06 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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It's possible that I'm less intelligent or flexible than I was when I was younger. As I get older I get more focused on what words mean, or I care more about honesty, as it relates to modesty, goodness, etc. When one is young the tendency is go with feeling or intuition, deception comes more easily, so does forgiveness. Words are just not something one dwells on. It's called, leaving the wound alone, or not scratching at the sore spot. I no longer drink alcohol because I realized I'm not anymore intelligent at 42 than I was at 17. I'm just as prone to using reasoning to come to absurd conclusions. With my younger age I was more prone to fantasy or acting it out. As an adult I can tell you that I'm not much into fantasy, but more into coherence.
Here I am with my cat talking about the lockdown/covid scenario. I was taken to the hospital by the police twice:
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Cat language can take a while to be able to interpret, but there is a difference between love bites and otherwise and that doesn't look like lovebites to me.
It takes a lot of time and dedication to raise a cat and a lot of patience to try and condition or decondition certain behaviours, but if your cat is doing that, one course of action is to simply remove yourself from the room to indicate that the behaviour has a negative consequence. It may take a few weeks, but not doing so is reinforcing the behaviour.
Quote:
If your cat or kitten is biting you, it's likely that they think you are a sibling or a play pal. Unfortunately, they may not realize that we don't wear protective fur as they do. If your kitten is biting you, it's likely because they aren't getting the clues.
The best thing that you can do when your kitten is biting is to withdraw! That means to simply get up and move away. Or, you may want to have a toy to redirect your kitten's attention. Their attention spans are short, so toss a toy in one direction or use a long cat wand to engage in play the safe way.
https://pethelpful.com/cats/How-to-Discipline-Your-CatThe-Right-Way
The shape of a cats tail, the speed it moves at, where within the tail moves or curls, their ears, body expressions, meows etc are often attempts to communicate specifics.
Some cats can become hangry if they don't have a scheduled meal time too, when they expect say 2 meals or feeds a day at the same time they can be more content, if those expectations aren't kept, the cat may behave hangrily.
Quote:
Cats are creatures of habit, so will expect their food to be served at the same time every day. They may cry and stare at you until their food bowl is filled, then wolf it down. Don’t worry – they’re hungry, not starving. Just like us, a cat’s empty stomach sends signals to its brain when food is needed, usually at around the times of day that they are used to being fed. If you’re the person that feeds them, they’ll look to you to fulfil this need.
https://canagan.com/uk/journal/How-to-stop-your-cat-begging-for-food/#:~:text=Cats%20are%20creatures%20of%20habit,'re%20hungry%2C%20not%20starving.
Petting a cat can also have its limits as certain body parts may have preferences, and excess stimulation or overpatting may not be something they want.
Never physically punt, or harshly push the cat either, as this may convey aggression and distrust for your hand in general.
Bullying experiences are another touchy subject as there is often associated trauma with such situations. Some people find joy in tormenting others, and sometimes it's when someone reacts that they are enticed to continue. There's obviously different context to every scenario, but trying not to react emotionally and distance yourself from them is usually a good first move, but I understand that's not always possible.
My dad used to be a bully in his highschool days until someone snapped and beat him up, he didn't do it after that, but again, there's highly varied context to such situations.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (07/22/23 05:01 PM)
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28404217 - 07/22/23 05:21 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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“The human psyche, like human bones, is strongly inclined towards self-healing.” - John Bowlby
the heat seeking missile To a bully, you must never say,
“Oh you hurt my feelings” or “I don’t know what to do” or show any weakness at all.
Teachers will say, “just tell the bully how it makes you feel.”
This is naive and insane. Don’t ever let a bully know there is a weak spot, that you got hurt. Because it’s like a heat seeking missile. They are moved to exploit that vulnerability. It’s a chance to assert their dominance.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28404220 - 07/22/23 05:24 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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What does Gora mean in India? Gora (racial epithet), racial epithet for white people in India. Gora (novel), a 1910 novel by Rabindranath Tagore. This video features Weiqi the cat:
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/22/23 05:31 PM)
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
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Kids in the House 13: Bullying
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28404370 - 07/22/23 07:42 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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“Don’t reason any more, In the end, reasoning only injures the aspirant. One should assume a particular attitude towards God while praying to Him - the attitude of friend or servant or son. I assume the attitude of a child. To me every woman is my mother. The divine Maya, seeing this attitude in an aspirant, moves away from his path out of sheer shame.” - Bhagavan Sri Ramakrishna Dev
In a dark room with alternating currents of 800,000 voltage, Nikola Tesla, by means of atmospheric vibrations, caused a faint glow of light to appear. Explaining the phenomenon, he said: “If I can increase the atmospheric vibrations, say 1,000,000 or ten thousand millions, I can produce sunlight in this room. Of course, I can increase the vibrations by increasing the voltage. I can make the voltage 8,000,000 as easily as 800,000; but I am not ready to handle 8,000,000 volts of electricity. Currents of such strength would kill everybody in the room. I expect, however, to learn how to control a large voltage. When I have increased the atmospheric vibrations perhaps a thousand times, the phenomenon will be no longer electricity. It will be light. I am satisfied that sunlight can be made from electricity without doing harm to anybody, and I expect to discover how it is done. It is a grand idea, and whether the voice through which it came be hushed and still or yet resounds in the proclamation of new truths, the idea itself will be carried to fruitage, and the world will be wiser, whatever may be the issue.” –Nikola Tesla “Artificial Sunlight.” Manufacturer and Builder, March, 1894
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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"I think it is absurd to give such tremendous importance to the distinctions between men and women. When I meet someone I regard that person as a human being. I do not say “This is a man; this is a woman.” - J Krishnamurti The Star (Aug 1929)
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28405217 - 07/23/23 12:00 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Al Roker interviews Leonard Sax, "Why Gender Matters"
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28405220 - 07/23/23 12:05 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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"We can only see a short distance ahead, but we can see plenty there that needs to be done." Alan Turing
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28405258 - 07/23/23 12:58 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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About The Evil One: Native American (Navajo) Teachings.
&ab_channel=NavajoTraditionalTeachings
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Gender neutral playthings aren't good?
Having an issue with gender is rather off putting and frankly an unattractive behaviour to many without conservative or traditional values.
It doesn't matter at all what types of toys children are playing with, the over generalisation of gender roles is not productive or true.
People likes what they like and play with all kinds of toys when they're young, i dont think it has any implications beyond play. Especially as kids grow up and develop their personal nuances and preferences.
As long as someone is accepting of another person, gender doesn't matter imo. If two people are attracted to eachother and consenting in what they do, it's no skin off my teeth and no bother of mine.
Haggards law is an interesting phenomenon where sometimes those who cry out the loudest about something like homosexuality are actually the most in desire of it, nevertheless, bottled up by their culture.
What happened for the police to take you to hospital?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28405465 - 07/23/23 05:52 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Haggards law is an interesting phenomenon where sometimes those who cry out the loudest about something like homosexuality are actually the most in desire of it, nevertheless, bottled up by their culture.
What happened for the police to take you to hospital?
I find Haggard's Law amusing, in that obviously ironic way. The irony involved in objecting to anything that one partakes in.
I recently got into a conflict with the landlord of the apartment I rent. The details of the conflict are actually really boring. Had to do with transparent garbage bags and leftover food. I was being quite disciplined with the leftover food, making sure there was none in the garbage. He tried to tell me there was leftover food in the garbage. Conflict ensued. Quite banal, the details of the conflict.
Here's a Gondola Song with my cat being well behaved:
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/30/23 03:46 PM)
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28405469 - 07/23/23 05:54 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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In the last 30 years, more OPP officers have died by suicide than in the line of duty, including three in just one month last year. Is one of Canada’s largest police forces doing enough to protect the well being of its own officers? Our investigation reveals what some call a culture of bullying, intimidation and harassment within the OPP, which the force denies:
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28405486 - 07/23/23 06:07 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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The Great Liberation Through Hearing In The Bardo, pg. 82-82
'Ocean of suffering: so now I will feel no passion and aggression.'
"There is not such thing as peace of mind. Mind means disturbance. Restlessness itself is mind." - NISARGADATTA
"There is nothing more hateful than bad advice." - Sophocles
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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If she cheated prior it's understandable you didn't have that trust, I still think if someone's in a commited relationship and they cheat the only step forward is breaking up. What cheating does to trust is nigh incomprehensible without experience.
A lot of people douche before anal but still use condoms with the right lube. There are safer ways of doing it.
The garbage thing does sound sort of banal.
To speak out against a police force from within can be highly frowned upon by those within because they are dealing with issues of extreme legality/liability for death or loss of property etc. No police officer wants to be exposed for wrong doing because in that line of work the consequences of say killing someone without valid reasoning can be severe.
I think relying on others can be self detrimental in some situations as when people are covering for themselves.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28406031 - 07/24/23 07:30 AM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: If she cheated prior it's understandable you didn't have that trust, I still think if someone's in a commited relationship and they cheat the only step forward is breaking up. What cheating does to trust is nigh incomprehensible without experience.
It's a good example of what happens when people are sexual active too young. In her case, she was sexual active in junior high school, so by the time she was in high school, she targeted me, who was two years older than her. When I found out she liked me, I knew who she was, and it wasn't someone I was even remotely interested in. I just didn't think she was very attractive or appealing. However, she was persistent, and I was a virgin with hardly any experience. We started going out to restaurants, movies, a concert, etc. we seemed to be having a good time. However, after about a year she was caught cheating and lying, and then she tried to tell me I had no friends and everybody disliked me, etc. She would play victim when I returned the favor and cheated on her. I did some retaliation cheating, but to no avail, my relationships got worse, and alcohol was involved from the very beginning. It wasn't until I was 22 or 23 that I stayed sober and started reading more books, hoping I could pull myself out of that pit.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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weird thread.
btw, assisted suicide can be completed with a 99.99%, and I dare say, 100% success rate.
but I would guess the rate might vary a bit depending on which nincompoops are in on the doing of it.
in my limited opinion based on limited human interaction, I'd say most people I've come across who've held an opposite opinion of that stated earlier on above, simply haven't dared to think it through well enough yet, let alone dare to follow through with it completely - hopefully for the better, but probabilistically speaking, likely also for the worse in some cases.
it's really not that hard to die, like - at all - but it does take some doing, or undoing, or some of both, depending on how you look at it. 
anywho. as for faith in truth?
I learned today that one of my 3 year old nieces is holding her own in conversations with adults. I was sent a clip, it was bewildering to say the least, but as family it's pretty cool. can't wait to see how she's doing and how well that whole thing is holding up when I finally get a chance to visit and play and talk with the little rug rat myself come circa Jan.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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"Suicide ... a wrong act?
Killing the innocent body is certainly wrong. Suicide must be committed on the mind, where the suffering is deposited, and not on the body, which insentient and feels nothing. The mind is the real culprit, being the creator of the anguish which tempts to suicide, but by an error of judgement, innocent, insentient body is punished for it." Bhagavan
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
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Registered: 10/05/16
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly] 1
#28406234 - 07/24/23 10:01 AM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Peter Beacham: Sri Rajneesh practiced greed, duplicity, arson, attempted murder, drug smuggling and voter fraud. We have nothing to learn from the cult leader, Osho aka Sri Rajneesh. Sri Rajneesh aka Osho was a major cult leader in the US in the 80's. He promoted free love and thus became hugely popular. He ran a commune in Oregon that was patrolled by armed guards. Rajneesh and his ashram was under investigation for multiple felonies including arson, attempted murder, drug smuggling, and vote fraud in the nearby town of Antelope as Rajneesh tried to take over the town. Rajneesh attempted to flee the U.S. but was apprehended shortly before takeoff in his private plane loaded with gold. In 1985 Rajneesh pleaded guilty to immigration fraud and was deported from the United States. He was refused entry by 21 countries before fleeing to his ashram in Pune, India, again complete with armed guards. Because of AIDS Rajneesh changed his name to Osho and the newly incarnated Osho changed his message away from free love. In 1990 Osho died under mysterious circumstances, some say, he was poisoned by his key supporters so that they could get their hands on his books, tapes, etc and make vast sums of money. The quotes, books, tapes, etc purported to be by Rajneesh/Osho could be merely written by the same group that allegedly murdered him. Does anyone have any thing to learn from Rajneeesh's/Osho's manipulative theories? Definitely not. As for the supposed quote some people are now using his name to promote their own agenda. The apple doesn’t fall from the diseased tree.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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I don't think it's as easy as being too young, but that relationship you've described was clearly toxic. Retaliatory cheating and staying with someone after they've cheated are not healthy, they're indicative of not having personal boundaries. It doesn't sound like there was good communication, trust, attraction (You said), or respect for personal boundaries.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly] 1
#28406563 - 07/24/23 02:24 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: I don't think it's as easy as being too young, but that relationship you've described was clearly toxic. Retaliatory cheating and staying with someone after they've cheated are not healthy, they're indicative of not having personal boundaries. It doesn't sound like there was good communication, trust, attraction (You said), or respect for personal boundaries.
It was the beginning of my bipolar disorder diagnosis, my encounter with her was the evil seed. She aggressively and persistently went after what she wanted (at the time, me). I didn't particularly have much interest in her. In hindsight, if I could live my life over again, I would have called the police and got a restraining order on her. However, just as much at fault was the drinking buddy I had before the high school dance, to me, that was the more fundamental fault, drinking vodka before the high school dance. That was what made me stand out and I was an easy target. Without alcohol, she probably wouldn't have given me as much notice as I would have evaded her detection. Another thing that made me vulnerable to excess suffering was fashion. Dressing in clothes to stand out or make an impression is one of the more fundamental social evils. Clothes should fit well, stand up against weather, but the peacocking through fashion and the drinking were my two fundamental vices.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/24/23 02:25 PM)
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28406578 - 07/24/23 02:38 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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Freedom, Plans and Opportunities
Doubt and Experience:
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said: It was the beginning of my bipolar disorder diagnosis, my encounter with her was the evil seed. She aggressively and persistently went after what she wanted (at the time, me). I didn't particularly have much interest in her. In hindsight, if I could live my life over again, I would have called the police and got a restraining order on her. However, just as much at fault was the drinking buddy I had before the high school dance, to me, that was the more fundamental fault, drinking vodka before the high school dance. That was what made me stand out and I was an easy target. Without alcohol, she probably wouldn't have given me as much notice as I would have evaded her detection. Another thing that made me vulnerable to excess suffering was fashion. Dressing in clothes to stand out or make an impression is one of the more fundamental social evils. Clothes should fit well, stand up against weather, but the peacocking through fashion and the drinking were my two fundamental vices.
Even bad relationships have something to teach and you don't just fall into them over a few drinks and a fashion statement.
The diagnosis may have happened around that time but the seed was already there.
The vast majority of individuals don't get the ideal happy every after with their high school sweet heart. They have failures and heart breaks, mistakes, changes of desire, and many lessons.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28406751 - 07/24/23 05:14 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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You're not kidding, and the repercussions echo till the end of their lives. ha ha ha!
been there am that
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_ 🧠 _
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28406817 - 07/24/23 05:44 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Even bad relationships have something to teach and you don't just fall into them over a few drinks and a fashion statement.
What I see is a gradual erosion of one's sense of self through entrainment.
Can we say that there is any learning occurring when we are being entrained?
What does entrainment mean in psychology? Entrainment is defined as the adjustment or moderation of one behavior either to synchronize or to. be in rhythm with another behavior.
I'm not sure we learn anything. We can learn about our entrainment, but then what? What is there to know once one sees through the hypnotic rhythms, haircuts and fashion statements? What to do with that empty void that's left behind when I stop dancing like a puppet to the cultural fashions and rhythms?
I'm reluctant to use the word 'you'. The word 'you' is a trigger word for me since it's the second person voice, it's what someone else has to say, either flattery or insult. As for the sense of 'I', I sometimes wonder who is really there. What am I other than all that accumulated rubbish? I have more trust in the word "I' or "we' than I do of the word 'you'. To me, the word 'you' is the source of tremendous mischief, insult, flattery, hypnotism. We all get swept away by music, rhythm, and more painfully, insult, flattery, etc.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Quote:
What I see is a gradual erosion of one's sense of self through entrainment.
Can we say that there is any learning occurring when we are being entrained?
One could say they don't learn until the entrainment is over but one could also say the learning is happening the entire time. It's just that the lessons aren't learned until it's over and it's over when the lessons are learned.
Is it over? That void you mention is not empty is it? Seems to me it's filled with wishful thinking and regret, unhappiness about how things are and how they were.
It's unclear why it happened the way it did. If you are interested in truth it shouldn't be difficult to see there was more to it than a few drinks and some snazzy clothes. And perhaps the truth is the situation is too complex to hold in mind, not just the truth about you but about her. And you will never know.
Perhaps the truth is that letting go has much to do with these lessons we are wanting to learn.
Perhaps our sense of self needs erosion.
Perhaps emptiness isn't a painful void.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
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Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28407443 - 07/25/23 05:31 AM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Perhaps emptiness isn't a painful void.
Learning either feels good, or it feel bad. Perhaps if one feels bad about a lesson learned, then no real learning is occurring. Punishment vs. discipline. Discipline feels good and life giving, whereas punishment is not so much learning, but it's part of the entrainment process.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Punishment without physical violation of liberty, being entrained, faulting alcohol and clothing. Seems like there are some lessons to learn. Not all lessons feel good but if one would do things differently knowing what one knows now, they learned.
And perhaps punishment was the only motive, but is that true? And if so, why? And a follow-up, is it necessary to know those things or to make assumptions about them? Perhaps there are some things one didn't learn. That can be painful, the not learning. The feeling they weren't smart enough to figure someone out on a deep level, to see beyond the pain they were offering.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28407501 - 07/25/23 07:25 AM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Punishment without physical violation of liberty, being entrained, faulting alcohol and clothing. Seems like there are some lessons to learn. Not all lessons feel good but if one would do things differently knowing what one knows now, they learned.
And perhaps punishment was the only motive, but is that true? And if so, why? And a follow-up, is it necessary to know those things or to make assumptions about them? Perhaps there are some things one didn't learn. That can be painful, the not learning. The feeling they weren't smart enough to figure someone out on a deep level, to see beyond the pain they were offering.
The question is, can reality or truth be learned? Children love dinosaurs. There is certainly learning occurring with children and dinosaurs, and I don't see much pain there. Can any children report feelings of pain or punishment when learning about dinosaurs? I don't necessarily see a lesson when it comes to learning facts that don't cause pain. At what point does learning become painful?
Near the end of her diary Anne (Frank) shares a quotation she once read with which she strongly agrees: “Deep down, the young are lonelier than the old.” Because young people are less able than adults to define or express their needs clearly, they are more likely to feel lonely, isolated, and misunderstood.
I would say the first time I felt significant loneliness was when I became self conscious of my haircut and clothes and even my skill as an athlete. The more I stood out through participating in athletics, the more pain I felt as it relates to me being an object for others. And I don't mean admiration, but imagine an angry teenager ridiculing another teenager for dribbling a basketball too high, or someone refusing to get naked in the gym shower with other boys, or not keeping up to style with latest haircut trend.
The most difficult fact to learn is contempt or anger for perceived weakness. This drives the plastic surgery business, the business of objectifying oneself to please others, working out at the gym to get that six pack, or to modify oneself so that one will be perceived more favorably. Learning, at some point gets twisted into entrainment. I see the business / industry of fashion, sports and even the music business to be more about entrainment than learning. One can learn about entrainment, and one would hope that this learning liberates the human being from suffering. I can only tell you that it feels good for me to write this out.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Knowledge is learned. Logically, such things may be true or not true. There is subtle variation in surety but examination of motive can be helpful in categorizing knowledge. Utility, predictability, willingness to see bias, etc. can be useful.
I agree that the kind of lessons we're talking about are things which lessen suffering. Good lessons. The caveat is that there does not seems to be a singular lesson and one may experience cognitive dissonance, a degree of liberation while a degree of suffering remains.
Do you believe entrainment to be inherently negative?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28407729 - 07/25/23 10:24 AM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Do you believe entrainment to be inherently negative?
If by positive, we mean, liberation from suffering, the question is, is there an entrainment that liberates the human from suffering. The closest thing I know to that would be music. If entrainment is a rhythmic process over time, we can always explore music. What happens when music gets too repetitive and messages in the lyrics are degrading? That would be the weaponization of music. When music becomes weaponized, we have armies of humans that kill other humans to beat of a drum. So, even music is hazardous. Wars have been conducted through music. Entrainment is, by my understanding, hazardous. Music in it's purest form may be the only example of positive entraining. Spirit is anything that removes or separates one from the world of violence/matter. I completely empathize and have compassion for anyone who resembles a hermit, the loner on opium who relaxes in bed to a peaceful melody. My compassion is more limited to those who are ambitious to occupy positions that involve entraining others through degrading messages such as stupid, dummy, ugly, idiot, weak, slow, etc. The world consists of people pissed off because something is either going too fast or too slow. We're offended by those who break the rules by being too powerful, but we're contemptuous towards those who exist within the rules too slow/weak.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/25/23 10:27 AM)
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
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Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28407739 - 07/25/23 10:32 AM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Somatic Shared Fantasy: Narcissist Entrains Codependent, Borderline: Brainwash, Regulate, Repeat
SamVaknin
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28407744 - 07/25/23 10:37 AM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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"The light of human reason is locked up in the dark of animal instinct." 49. K'an, The Abyss (I-Ching)
"We can't reach old age by another man's road. My habits protect my life, but they would assassinate you." - Mark Twain
"There is no denying that Hitler and Stalin are alive today...they are waiting for us to forget, because this is what makes possible the resurrection of these two monsters." (Simon Wiesenthal, from a meeting with President Jimmy Carter reported in The Washington Post, August 6, 1980)
https://www.wiesenthal.com/
"The history of man is the history of crimes, and history can repeat. So information is a defense. Through this we can build, we must build, a defense against repetition." (Simon Wiesenthal, Baltimore Jewish Times, February 24, 1989)
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28407770 - 07/25/23 10:55 AM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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"The schools would fail through their silence, the Church through its forgiveness, and the home through the denial and silence of the parents. The new generation has to hear what the older generation refuses to tell it." (Quoted in the introduction to The Sunflower, Simon Wiesenthal)
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said: Music in it's purest form may be the only example of positive entraining.
Seems rather restrictive. Are you sure your experiences haven't soured you to other forms of "music"?
Quote:
I completely empathize and have compassion for anyone who resembles a hermit, the loner on opium who relaxes in bed to a peaceful melody. My compassion is more limited to those who are ambitious to occupy positions that involve entraining others through degrading messages such as stupid, dummy, ugly, idiot, weak, slow, etc.
What about entrainment through non-degrading messages? Smart, beautiful, strong, etc.? Seems like you're leaving a lot out. Do you think positive messages are simply pretty lies, or can they be honest expressions of appreciation?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28407817 - 07/25/23 11:41 AM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
What about entrainment through non-degrading messages? Smart, beautiful, strong, etc.? Seems like you're leaving a lot out. Do you think positive messages are simply pretty lies, or can they be honest expressions of appreciation?
It appears to me that the harder one tries to accentuate what one regards as positive, the more it generates a negative. By praising or defining one person or group as smart, you necessarily create a person or group who is dumb. I'm a non-dualist, so I don't particularly believe that there is positive without negative. I could say, 'let's be positive', but that would mean when someone is negative, there would be an extra negative. Extra positive would create extra negative.
Non-Duality:
: a doctrine of classic Brahmanism holding that the essential unity of all is real whereas duality and plurality are phenomenal illusion and that matter is materialized energy which in turn is the temporal manifestation of an incorporeal spiritual eternal essence constituting the innermost self of all things.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28407833 - 07/25/23 11:53 AM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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My musical influences are like most people born in the 80's. I can assure I'm open minded to just about any music isn't just military clap trap. If you'd like me to post the best music I know to go hunt and jail nazis, I can show you the best I can do, not without reaching into Brahmanhood.
A man should have such fiery faith as to be able to say, "I have uttered the name of God; how can I be a sinner?" Imagine a man repeating the name of Hari day and night at the same time saying he is a sinner. So saying, Sri Ramakrishna becomes overwhelmed with divine ecstasy and sang:
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/25/23 12:13 PM)
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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With the minor grammatical errors corrected:
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28407840 - 07/25/23 11:56 AM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Baburam (sympathetic soul)
The Gospel of Ramakrishna, pg. 512, At Dakshineswar Zimbabwae (Bob Marley)
The Bauls will ask you, "Do you know about the wind?' The 'wind' means the great current that one feels in one's subtle nerves. They will ask you further, "Which station are you dwelling? The first, second, third, forth or fifth?"
"There is a small chapel room which does not have an altar as we understand it, but rather a curtain under which is a kind of throne consisting purely of low silk cushions. On top of it is a photograph of Ramakrishna. It’s terribly tasteless, but the people don’t see that at all. They actually see Ramakrishna there. A daily meditative prayer is said before the photograph, not in order to honor Ramakrishna, but to adopt the form of Ramakrishna: to enter into the form of Ramakrishna." ~Carl Jung, Ignatius Loyola Spiritual Exercises, Page 80
"This is literally what they told me. I took part in this meditative ritual. What I found very interesting was that the monk who was the celebrant had to prepare the day before with a long meditation exercise until he had conceived of the form and entered into the anima of the Ramakrishna." ~Carl Jung, Ignatius Loyola Spiritual Exercises, Page 80 Image Sarada Devi (1853–1920), wife and spiritual counterpart of Ramakrishna.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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I used quotes around music to indicate other forms of entrainment that are not music 
But yes, playing an instrument is an enjoyable activity for those who have the inclination. I've been playing guitar since I was 16. I occasionally play for an audience but it's primarily been for my own enjoyment.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28407988 - 07/25/23 02:41 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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For a short while I had an interest in recording and started a youtube account. Have a listen if you like. Most of them were recorded around the time they were uploaded but With Each New Sun and Yellow were from my teen years.
https://www.youtube.com/@handsomedevil6953
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended



Registered: 11/14/10
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz] 1
#28408019 - 07/25/23 02:58 PM (6 months, 23 hours ago) |
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Hey, those tracks are fun...
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28408212 - 07/25/23 05:08 PM (6 months, 21 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: For a short while I had an interest in recording and started a youtube account. Have a listen if you like. Most of them were recorded around the time they were uploaded but With Each New Sun and Yellow were from my teen years.
https://www.youtube.com/@handsomedevil6953
Just listening to ExperimentalSecrets now. Sounds great to me. I'll listen to your other ones. If I had my good mic working I'd trying to get you to email me some tracks to do a colab the way I did back when. I did some musical collabs with a few shroomery musicians a few years ago, enjoyed it. As it stands, my guitar amp is no longer working nor is my microphone. Had a structural collapse a couple years ago, software, hardware, financial, emotional, just everything stopped working all around the same time. Maybe someday I'll get things working the way they were.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Thank you and yea I would be down for that. I have a snowball mike, not very expensive and I've been happy with the sound. I'm currently using a blackstar 5 watt amp (louder that you would think). It's got pretty good grit and gain but I still use the j-station I bought over 20 years ago.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28408278 - 07/25/23 05:51 PM (6 months, 20 hours ago) |
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I played and sung a song about bee titties yesterday.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28408285 - 07/25/23 06:01 PM (6 months, 20 hours ago) |
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I don't know what that means but sounds fun
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28408289 - 07/25/23 06:04 PM (6 months, 20 hours ago) |
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It means I sung a song saying I didn't want those bees knees, no I want them big tittees, those bee tittees! Beeeeeeeeee -- well you can assume the rest..
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28408311 - 07/25/23 06:23 PM (6 months, 20 hours ago) |
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you must have had a buzz
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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I had a heart rate of 66 earlier that day, no buzz, nothing other than a mate saying I should sing since I was getting better at guitar.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28408363 - 07/25/23 07:08 PM (6 months, 19 hours ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: It means I sung a song saying I didn't want those bees knees, no I want them big tittees, those bee tittees! Beeeeeeeeee -- well you can assume the rest..
Ahh. I have heard of bee stings... which are alright with me, although they don't often get songs sung about them.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
#28408459 - 07/25/23 08:00 PM (6 months, 18 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
sudly said: It means I sung a song saying I didn't want those bees knees, no I want them big tittees, those bee tittees! Beeeeeeeeee -- well you can assume the rest..
Ahh. I have heard of bee stings... which are alright with me, although they don't often get songs sung about them.
Hath mine faith been misinterpreted?

For all thine sins will be forgiven.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28408876 - 07/26/23 07:24 AM (6 months, 7 hours ago) |
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Like a man stung by a scorpion, Sri Ramakrishna cried out, "Govinda, Govinda!" In order to relieve her mind of all embarrassment, one sang:
Go Ramakrishna, pg. 235, With the Devotees @ Dakshineswar (I)
"That's all I wanted to do as a kid. Play guitar properly and jump around. But too many people got in the way." Syd Barret
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
#28408877 - 07/26/23 07:25 AM (6 months, 7 hours ago) |
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Friedrich Nietzsche: A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Why Narcissist Must Win, Be Right (Psychopath, too)
SamVaknin
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/27/23 07:17 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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why must people post videos when we could read the text ourselves much more quickly or not.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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"Because it is so unbelievable, the truth often escapes being known." - Heraclitus
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Go Ramakrishna, pg. 620, Advice to Ishan
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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