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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28396432 - 07/15/23 12:24 PM (6 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
to the flat earther, endless travel east or west does not bring you back to your starting point, it takes you to alternate universes where all your wishes come true.
falling off the edge is so 15th century, the new flat earth is technically advanced.




Yep, they question 3rd party information unless it supports their theory.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
    #28396689 - 07/15/23 04:20 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

sudly said:
How could you think flat earthers make good points regarding third party information, like an example?




By pointing out that third party evidence is taken on faith. A picture of the Earth from space for instance.




The point isn't to blindly believe that a picture from Earth is true on faith alone.

There is a reason to believe there are pictures of the Earth as taken from satellites orbiting in or travelling through space.

Third party evidence isn't blindly accepted, it's merited.

:wtf:


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
    #28396720 - 07/15/23 04:59 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Duh. The point is merit is primarily based on more 3rd party information, appeals to authority and various other things they easily take exception to. NASA lies, etc.

They may even ask for examples when replying to a post in which I gave examples! :wtf:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
    #28396744 - 07/15/23 05:21 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Duh. The point is merit is primarily based on more 3rd party information, appeals to authority and various other things they easily take exception to. NASA lies, etc.

They may even ask for examples when replying to a post in which I gave examples! :wtf:




Accepting photographs of Earth from space is not an appeal to authority fallacy, as it goes beyond blindly accepting authority. It involves considering the scientific consensus and the weight of evidence supporting the claim. Scientific consensus reflects the collective expertise, research, and evidence based conclusions of a broad community of scientists. It emerges from rigorous scrutiny, testing, and replication of findings across disciplines.

The credibility of the evidence is further supported by independent verification from multiple space agencies, scientists, researchers, and amateur astronomers. This diverse range of sources adds to such photographs' credibility. Faith is not ubiquitous or required to believe in the existence of images of Earth from space.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
    #28396752 - 07/15/23 05:33 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

I didn't say it was a fallacy, but it is an appeal to authority all the same no matter how fancy you make it sound, and no I don't think such information should be point blank discarded. The point I made is that there are simple experiments which can provide first hand evidence and my experience has been that when providing such examples the flat Earther will slink away rather than try and refute it.

That's not the same as them admitting the Earth is spherical which is why I generally don't engage with them any more... which is the context in which I made the comments in the first place.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
    #28396770 - 07/15/23 05:51 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

So you agree faith is not required to believe in the existence of photos of Earth from space.

While it is important to question the validity and reliability of information from various sources, relying solely on personal interpretations of evidence can inevitably introduce biases. Evaluating evidence through rigorous scientific processes, peer review, and independent verification helps mitigate these biases and ensures a more objective assessment of the information.

Sometimes a point is made without the other person having to admit to it.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
    #28396791 - 07/15/23 06:13 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Is the difference between confidence and faith a matter of comfortable semantics?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
    #28396903 - 07/15/23 09:02 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

The difference between confidence and faith is that confidence relies on empirical evidence, while faith can involve elements beyond empirical validation. Confidence leans towards evidence based reasoning, while faith can extend beyond empirical evidence.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OnlineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
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Registered: 05/26/05
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #28397002 - 07/15/23 11:00 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

from an absolute perspecive, there isn't anything that can be confirmed because I can't step outside of my mind and compare it to something else. I can't even confirm that I existed at the begining of this sentence.

From a relative perspective, truth is whatever I appear to believe. Everything is interconnected so the cause of my belief is ultimately everything. The mind breaks things into imaginary chunks and ignores the vast unknown between the chunks, and creates a little story of how it came to believe something.

These stories shape our lives and our perception of our lives. In this sense truth is not truth but a lense with which the universe sees itself through our lives. Humans are like a collection of distorted fun house mirrors for the universe. The nature of perception is persepctive. Like from the ground the earth looks flat, imagining a new perspective we imagine a circular orbit, then a parabolic one, then a vortex. Everthing we think see touch hear smell is a limited perspective, perhaps at best a partial differential equation, a particular cross section of a bit of 'reality', if such a thing exists. I doubt its ever so clean, always a warped partial differential equation, often with a dash or handful or a galaxy full of imagination


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
    #28397009 - 07/15/23 11:11 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

What do you think the probability of the Sun moving over the horizon from East to West tomorrow is?


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OnlineFreedom
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
    #28397011 - 07/15/23 11:14 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

From an ultimate perspective probability doesn't exist as everything is an n of 1

from a relative perspictive 99.9999999


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OnlineFreedom
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
    #28397012 - 07/15/23 11:16 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

also, this is difficult to see, but from an ultimate perspecive everything is an n of 0, since by the time you see it, its gone


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
    #28397018 - 07/15/23 11:27 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

:rasta:

What does the moon do when you look away from it?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
    #28397188 - 07/16/23 05:05 AM (6 months, 10 days ago)

there is no such thing as an ultimate perspective, and if at the end of this sentence I am not the same me as at the beginning, I am not in the least surprised.

however, the same connected body and mind are sitting here in the bath typing on the same keyboard, which certainly gives the illusion of a persisting self in many perspectives other than views that subtend from Anattā (which themselves are also not ultimate views either).


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OnlineFreedom
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28398934 - 07/17/23 03:32 PM (6 months, 8 days ago)

thats true, there's actually no way I know of to name the perspective im refering too


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Freedom]
    #28399007 - 07/17/23 04:44 PM (6 months, 8 days ago)

with your reference then, are you pointing at an imaginary direction?


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OfflineSee_Ya_207
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28399190 - 07/17/23 07:40 PM (6 months, 8 days ago)

Harsh!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: See_Ya_207]
    #28399227 - 07/17/23 08:16 PM (6 months, 8 days ago)

?
what is your interpretation?


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28399261 - 07/17/23 09:18 PM (6 months, 8 days ago)

Of the absolute, ultimate, relative perspective!
:jimmies:


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OnlineFreedom
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28399321 - 07/17/23 11:39 PM (6 months, 8 days ago)

language is limited to is or is not

things are and are not

I probably shouldn't have mentioned it, its not easy to see


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