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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #28394376 - 07/13/23 11:44 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Cory Duchesne said:

"The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
H. L. Mencken




:thumbup:

Reminds me of the wisdom of insecurity.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28394412 - 07/13/23 12:40 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

I have not studied the inferior man, but it sounds like an unnecessary derogatory statement.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28394476 - 07/13/23 02:16 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

It's OVER 9000!!!


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Cory Duchesne] * 1
    #28394765 - 07/13/23 08:34 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

My ears perk up at conversations about faith.

I have an inclination to reframe faith as a curious, receptive orientation rather than a grasping relationship to something, which is how I often see it used. People of 'faith' can get confident and uncurious, explaining truth away.

Faith in truth I kinda jive with because the truth is always arriving in a torrential fashion.

People be drowning
God is a helmet
People be splashing
With room to breathe



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28394780 - 07/13/23 09:06 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Faith in truth sounds blind to me.

If faith is blind by nature, and it's aimed at truth? It's unquestioning belief?!

How is that what we're to strive towards?


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
    #28394793 - 07/13/23 09:25 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

what is truth?


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28394872 - 07/13/23 11:20 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

The most universally convincing probability, usually within a scientific framework.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisiblePatrickKn
I'm a teapot

Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,561
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
    #28394914 - 07/14/23 01:21 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Truth is different for everyone, but some people are wrong.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: PatrickKn]
    #28394923 - 07/14/23 01:37 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

The most universally potent probability of something isn't different for everyone. You can choose not to believe it, but when that probability is potentiated by evidence to a certain degree, the doubtful have no leg to stand on.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisiblePatrickKn
I'm a teapot

Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,561
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
    #28394925 - 07/14/23 01:58 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

The most universally potent probability is different for everyone. If my life experiences and all the evidence I've gathered up to this point indicated that all purple dogs bite, and I've never seen evidence to the contrary, that may be a truth to me until I have evidence to the contrary. If 100 people have this same experience with purple dogs, and 5 people who have gone to other countries where purple dogs do not bite, the most universally potent probability remains false, and not universally probable for any of the 5 whom have seen otherwise.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: PatrickKn]
    #28394927 - 07/14/23 02:02 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

The absence of evidence certainly does not serve as evidence for the presence of something. Without concrete evidence or credible sources supporting the claim of all purple dogs bite, it would indeed remain speculative and unsubstantiated. This line of reasoning can be seen as an example of the argument from ignorance fallacy, as it incorrectly assumes that the lack of explicit refutation implies the truth of the claim. Such a claim requires substantiated evidence rather than mere speculation or assumptions based on the absence of evidence.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
    #28394960 - 07/14/23 03:33 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

I see the problem.
The Truth Issues that are Faith oriented are not within the domain of probability assessment, nor are they arranged so as to be tested for reliability.

Instead we see bouquets of favored beliefs that are qualified only by who does the favoring.


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28395060 - 07/14/23 07:09 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Faith in truth seems similar to "honesty is the best policy".

One may not know how that will work out but sticking to a principle could be more important than a specific outcome, otherwise said the outcome is presumed to be the best because it's based in honesty.

But truth is not always an easy thing to know so "faith in truth" is a curious phrase. Thought provoking, yet not satisfying to the logical mind as truth is a variable of knowledge that one want's to know rather than have faith in.

I tend to classify knowledge as simply information (true knowledge/false knowledge).

One can have faith in knowledge with the logical mind feeling confident it has been vetted properly. But if knowledge fails the logical mind should acknowledge it was apparently false and truth is once again sought, or supposed that perhaps it will come to light with time.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Rahz]
    #28395083 - 07/14/23 07:40 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

If sticking to a belief or certain principle is more important than the outcome, then there you have a tribalistic mindset imo, and a big problem with organised religion.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
    #28395088 - 07/14/23 07:44 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

I believe it is important to relax and be honest about what is perceived.
i.e not be defensive, and know that even what is perceived is not necessarily true.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28395099 - 07/14/23 07:50 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Tell me the earth is flat and I will usually walk away.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28395132 - 07/14/23 08:23 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

what if the earth is flat for 1000 feet, you know, a concept within a context.

the earth being flat seems to be a context free abstraction. flat earthers lack the sense of scope, scale, and  granularity, etc.

It is not contagious, you need not walk away, but if possible let them see the box they are in - let them out of confining ignorance of the scale of things.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Registered: 11/15/09
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28395254 - 07/14/23 10:41 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

it's stupid because when you fly you can see the curvature of the earth


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28395301 - 07/14/23 11:29 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

good point about perspective, F!


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Registered: 08/29/02
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Loc: nonsensistan
Re: Faith in Truth [Re: sudly]
    #28395346 - 07/14/23 12:09 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

If faith is blind by nature




This is where I rearrange faith. It is open and receptive with all the lensing and discrimination intact. It is humble and curious yet naturally builds frameworks and burns them down again.

I hear what you're saying about belief. Faith and belief are increasingly far apart for me, though belief can be a vehicle to facilitate faith.





Belief is the capsule, faith is taking a stance to meet Frieza.


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