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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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"The only thing that keeps me going is anger. I don't have any love in me at all. I hate community. Two things make me furious. Spiritualism, and community. People who talk about community want to manage other people. I grew up in a village. And people say that's a community, but it isn't. It's a lot of individuals, following the rules. And spiritualism, spiritual people are often very greedy, avaricious, and waste a hell of a lot of time. Nobody deserves what they are promised by spiritual people. And some people promise them eternal life. I think it's a horrific punishment to get eternal life, just ordinary people should never have such punishment visited on them." - Bill Mollison
"After a bitter quarrel, some resentment must remain. What can one do about it? Therefore the sage keeps his half of the bargain But does not exact his due. A man of Virtue performs his part, But a man without Virtue requires others to fulfill their obligations. The Tao of heaven is impartial. It stays with good men all the time." (Tao Te Ching, Seventy-nine)
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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“I would not give my rotating field discovery for a thousand inventions, however valuable, designed merely as mechanical contraptions to deceive the eye and the ear. A thousand years hence, the telephone and the motion picture camera may be obsolete, but the principle of the rotating magnetic field will remain a vital, living thing for all time to come.” –Nikola Tesla “A Famous Prophet of Science Looks Into the Future.” By Alden P. Armagnac. Popular Science Monthly, November, 1928.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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BrendanFlock
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Registered: 06/01/13
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Honesty is the best policy?
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
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A better question is: what is the need to falsehood?
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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We want to see if we can make it real.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: syncro]
#28384452 - 07/04/23 05:37 AM (6 months, 22 days ago) |
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keep trying to see what is real - and just be a good host!
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said: A better question is: what is the need to falsehood?
Pretty sure it's envy/admiration, having what one's neighbor has, doing what other people are doing.
“[Freud] said once to Marie Bonaparte: 'The great question that has never been answered, and which I have not yet been able to answer, despite my thirty years of research into the feminine soul, is
"What does a woman want?”
― Sigmund Freud: Life and Work (Hogarth Press, 1953) by Ernest Jones, Vol. 2, Pt. 3, Ch
Answer: More.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said: Honesty is the best policy?

Fear of having one's deceptions detected would be the consequence of being a deceiver.
Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said:
Honesty is the best policy?

Dennis Miller once told Christopher Hitchens he believes honesty is the most overrated of all the virtues.
Made me chuckle. I can appreciate the sentiment.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Fifty-eight, Tao Te Ching
When the country is ruled with a light hand The people are simple. When the country is ruled with severity, The people are cunning.
Happiness is rooted in misery. Misery lurks beneath happiness. Who knows what the future holds? There is no honesty. Honesty becomes dishonest. Goodness becomes witchcraft. Man's bewitchment lasts for a long time.
Therefore the sage is sharp but not cutting, Pointed but not piercing, Straightforward but not unrestrained, Brilliant but not blinding.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
BrendanFlock said:
Honesty is the best policy?

Dennis Miller once told Christopher Hitchens he believes honesty is the most overrated of all the virtues.
Made me chuckle. I can appreciate the sentiment.
you have to be honest with yourself the rest is just life and nature.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said:
'Perfect' is one of those words people use to express their sense that one has complied or cooperated. I still hear (see) people say that word, it's the sound one makes when favorable news has been relayed. Mr. C: "I got that paper work done you asked for." Mr. J: "perfect".
AMEN! I can relate.
I once had a boss who would say "perfect" whenever I completed a task successfully. It always felt a gross and coercive. After all, no employee would want to fall into the opposite category! Let's see, the opposite of "perfect" is . . .
oh the horror
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
Cory Duchesne said:
'Perfect' is one of those words people use to express their sense that one has complied or cooperated. I still hear (see) people say that word, it's the sound one makes when favorable news has been relayed. Mr. C: "I got that paper work done you asked for." Mr. J: "perfect".
AMEN! I can relate.
I once had a boss who would say "perfect" whenever I completed a task successfully. It always felt a gross and coercive. After all, no employee would want to fall into the opposite category! Let's see, the opposite of "perfect" is . . .
oh the horror 
I just quit my job at the superstore (big corporate grocery store, night shift, stocking shelves, moving goods, etc.). I was surprised how many managers there were. The managers seemed to outnumber the ordinary workers. After about 4 weeks of a few misunderstandings, and even an insult (dummy), one of the managers approached me as I was getting off work, and said, "I've been watching you in the aisles, you're slow as molasses. Pick up the pace, or else I'm going to have let you go." He basically threatened to fire me if I didn't move faster.
I texted two of the managers the next day, and said I quit, I will be buying groceries elsewhere, and that's a promise not a threat.
I match every threat with a promise. Anyone who tries to threaten me, I can promise you I will take my business elsewhere.
I'm thankful I don't have children. The corporate work place doesn't really have a place for people like me. It's for people who have kids and talk about their kids.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
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Last seen: 2 days, 13 hours
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said: Fifty-eight, Tao Te Ching
When the country is ruled with a light hand The people are simple. When the country is ruled with severity, The people are cunning.
Happiness is rooted in misery. Misery lurks beneath happiness. Who knows what the future holds? There is no honesty. Honesty becomes dishonest. Goodness becomes witchcraft. Man's bewitchment lasts for a long time.
Therefore the sage is sharp but not cutting, Pointed but not piercing, Straightforward but not unrestrained, Brilliant but not blinding.
I'm not die.. I am a daoist but this seems like a pile of confusion.
Dissociation..
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said:
Quote:
Cory Duchesne said: Fifty-eight, Tao Te Ching
When the country is ruled with a light hand The people are simple. When the country is ruled with severity, The people are cunning.
Happiness is rooted in misery. Misery lurks beneath happiness. Who knows what the future holds? There is no honesty. Honesty becomes dishonest. Goodness becomes witchcraft. Man's bewitchment lasts for a long time.
Therefore the sage is sharp but not cutting, Pointed but not piercing, Straightforward but not unrestrained, Brilliant but not blinding.
I'm not die.. I am a daoist but this seems like a pile of confusion.
Dissociation..
Two things: One, he might have been referring to how being verbally honest makes one vulnerable to unfair and unjust response, two, he might have been referring to how some people need to be deceived or else they resort to threats and manipulation. Deception is one of those things that is demanded by some, they don't function without being deceived. And the more the country is ruled by severity, the more of necessity it is to deceive. Yes, that would mean confusion, complexity and disassociation for the ones ruling with severity. As for the one's doing the deceiving, they would also be harmed by their deceptions (fear). I've read stories about persecution in totalitarian states, and it was deemed necessary to deceive nazis, otherwise, the honesty would be taken advantage of for the persecution to be executed completely (kidnapping, ransom, etc).
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (07/06/23 04:06 AM)
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Cory Duchesne
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Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Vera Sharav joins Eric Metaxas (on Authority)
"Vera Sharav joins Eric Metaxas to describes her escape from a Nazi concentration camp as a child and immigrating to New York. Sharav opens up about what led her to medical activism and also shares her warning to Americans about the parallels she sees between the U.S. and Nazi Germany." [copied] View full episodes of Eric Metaxas for FREE on the TBN App:
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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spinvis
Stranger

Registered: 09/15/20
Posts: 587
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I would be confused too reading that translation. 
Let's see what one of the scholarly translations looks like, including commentary:
Quote:
58 1. When the government (cheng) is dull, Its people are wholesome; When the government is efficient (ch'a), Its people are deficient (ch'ueh).
2. Calamities (huo) are what blessings depend on, In blessings are latent calamities (huo). Who knows where is the turning point (chi)?
3. Because there is no longer the normal (cheng), The normal reverts and appears as the strange (ch'i), The good reverts and appears as the uncanny. Rulers (jen) have lost their way, For a long stretch of days.
4. Therefore the sage is square but not cutting (ko), Sharp but not injurious, Straight but not overreaching, Bright (kuang) but not dazzling.
General Comment This chapter follows the preceding chapter in both terminologies and ideas. The tone is somewhat pessimistic. It extols the virtues of an inactive government, which, alas, had become rare.
Detailed Comment 1. The Tao Te Ching believes that the development of intelligence results in the loss of the original goodness of nature. A dull and sleepy government does not encourage its citizens to sharpen their wits, thus preserving them in the wholesomeness of nature. A smart and efficient government awakens its citizens to competition, envy, and struggle; thereby they become deficient in natural goodness. In this way a supposedly desirable event (development of intelligence) results in something regrettable (loss of the original goodness of nature).
2. The turning of the round can be illustrated even in political matters. What seems to be a misfortune (dull government) brings about a blessing (whole some citizens), while what seems to be a blessing (efficient government) actually leads to misfortune (deficient citizens). Thus the wheel of fortune turns. What appears a blessing at the moment may turn out to be a misfortune, while what appears to be a misfortune now may prove later a blessing in disguise. Chapter 18 of the Huai-nan Tzu tells the story of an old man at the border who, armed with the insight that blessings and misfortunes have a way of turning into each other, met both with equanimity (SPTK, 18/6a).
3. Some translators have found these seemingly enigmatic lines unintelligible. If we connect them with the preceding chapter (57.1) the meaning is quite clear. The Tao Te Ching laments that things have come to such a state that what is normal (a dull and peaceful government) is now perceived as abnormal, while what is abnormal (government engaged in constant warfare) is now accepted as normal. Jen here means rulers. Thinking that they must enlarge their territory, institute new laws, inspire the people to revolutionary zeal, etc., they have lost their way.
4. Only the sage encompasses the opposites within himself. Embracing in himself both heaven (round) and earth (square), he is a square whose corners do not cut (ch. 41), a sharp knife that does not injure, a straightness that curls itself up so that it is not overreaching (ch. 45), and a brightness that abides in the dark Tao (ch. 41). The sage, by holding on to both poles, is able to avoid harming his people (ch. 60).
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: spinvis]
#28387896 - 07/07/23 03:46 AM (6 months, 19 days ago) |
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ve·nal showing or motivated by susceptibility to bribery. "their generosity had been at least partly venal"
"Everything that you have conquered has enslaved you. Can you have insight if there is a centre?" - J.K.
"But we cannot live without accepting the tragedy of life, and one of the problems of life is that we cannot live and flourish without being trapped; no matter what we do we are trapped, and the ultimate result is that one is buried in a hole in the ground." - Carl Jung, Visions Seminar, page 1124
lyrics by Highwaymen
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Faith in Truth [Re: spinvis] 1
#28392238 - 07/11/23 08:46 AM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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"If you give the average man a choice between (a) ideas based on sound scholarship and (b) bullshit that taps into popular man-in-the-street prejudices, he'll take the bullshit every time. Successful politicians understand this prevailing inclination and exploit it." Robert Higgs
"The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety." H. L. Mencken
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said: "If you give the average man a choice between (a) ideas based on sound scholarship and (b) bullshit that taps into popular man-in-the-street prejudices, he'll take the bullshit every time. Successful politicians understand this prevailing inclination and exploit it." Robert Higgs
"The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety." H. L. Mencken
these foibles are germaine these days more than ever before. thus a clue can be glommed as to how should ai be programmed: prioritize countering bullshit and fear with easily accessible sound ideas and healthy confidence.
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