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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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The Manure Tour: Bottlenecked Magic Mushrooms Since Psilocybe cubensis Spread From Its Unknown Centre of Origin * 5
    #28379199 - 06/29/23 04:03 PM (6 months, 26 days ago)

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4487673

Abstract: Psilocybe cubensis is a mushroom that grows in niches of livestock dung in the tropics and subtropics and produces a hallucinogenic compound, psilocybin. It has caused accidental poisonings since the 1940s in Australia and has been cultivated since the 1970s globally. The centre of origin of P. cubensis is unknown. We sequenced genomes of 38 isolates from Australia and compared them with 86 genomes of commercially available cultivars to determine i) whether P. cubensis is native or naturalised in Australia, and ii) how cultivation has impacted commercial cultivars. Our analyses of genome-wide SNPs and single copy orthologs showed that the Australian population is naturalised, having recovered its effective population size after a bottleneck when it was introduced, and it has maintained relatively high genetic diversity at its mating-type loci. In contrast, cultivated lineages have generally not recovered from decreased effective population sizes and have hallmarks of inbreeding and clonal propagation, including low genetic diversity, low heterozygosity, high linkage disequilibrium, and low allelic diversity of mating genes. Cultivars are founded from single genotypes or populations with low genetic diversity. The psilocybin gene cluster is homogeneous across most cultivars of P. cubensis, however, the Australian lineage, as well as specific cultivars, have unique allelic diversity that may translate to differences in biosynthesis of psilocybin and its analogues. Given the impacts of inbreeding depression, knowledge of the centre of origin of P. cubensis will benefit breeding for genetic gain in magic mushrooms.

Looks like the full paper is behind a paywall.  : (


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InvisibleHunter hunter
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Re: The Manure Tour: Bottlenecked Magic Mushrooms Since Psilocybe cubensis Spread From Its Unknown Centre of Origin [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 2
    #28380681 - 06/30/23 08:38 PM (6 months, 25 days ago)

Interesting.  If hunters are snagging myc and propagating “wild” azures or a variety of wood lovers.  Would the new variations seen after several years be considered environmental, bottlenecking?  We’ve seen the strains evolve over a couple of years.  They maintain the normal characteristics for a couple of years then as time goes by and the patches mature and expand it becomes more difficult to differentiate between species.  It’s strange they all tend to become very similar. 

  Ovoids seem to hold onto their original characteristics.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: The Manure Tour: Bottlenecked Magic Mushrooms Since Psilocybe cubensis Spread From Its Unknown Centre of Origin [Re: Hunter hunter] * 2
    #28381297 - 07/01/23 11:16 AM (6 months, 24 days ago)

By bottlenecking I think they mean that a species was introduced once to a new place and spread there.

In your woodlover example there would be a lot of crossbreeding with existing patches, so no bottleneck.


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: The Manure Tour: Bottlenecked Magic Mushrooms Since Psilocybe cubensis Spread From Its Unknown Centre of Origin [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 2
    #28381429 - 07/01/23 01:54 PM (6 months, 24 days ago)

This is gold! Thanks for bringing this to my attention.


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Invisiblemurderlabz
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Re: The Manure Tour: Bottlenecked Magic Mushrooms Since Psilocybe cubensis Spread From Its Unknown Centre of Origin [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #28385978 - 07/05/23 01:42 PM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4487673

Looks like the full paper is behind a paywall.  : (




Here is the full paper



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Invisiblejoze
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Re: The Manure Tour: Bottlenecked Magic Mushrooms Since Psilocybe cubensis Spread From Its Unknown Centre of Origin [Re: murderlabz]
    #28386021 - 07/05/23 02:22 PM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

murderlabz said:
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4487673

Looks like the full paper is behind a paywall.  : (




Here is the full paper





:myman:

Interesting reading. Lemme grab a cup of coffee. :drinkcoffee:


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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: The Manure Tour: Bottlenecked Magic Mushrooms Since Psilocybe cubensis Spread From Its Unknown Centre of Origin [Re: murderlabz]
    #28392059 - 07/11/23 04:05 AM (6 months, 14 days ago)

:raisemyglass:


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Offlinetrippleblack
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Re: The Manure Tour: Bottlenecked Magic Mushrooms Since Psilocybe cubensis Spread From Its Unknown Centre of Origin [Re: cli_hlt]
    #28393686 - 07/12/23 04:49 PM (6 months, 13 days ago)

very cool.  great people at ann arbor, very valuable research.  i originally got the strain blue magnolia from a vendor who said it was a wild strain likely not connected to the others.. i wanted it to introduce new genetics into new projects, great to have genetics not connected to the usual suspects.


I hope they follow through with the below selected research as stated, this is my #1 want to know. i hope they look into different phenos of the same strain too:

Quote:

Future clinical research directions may be to
determine whether different amounts of psilocybin and its analogues, putatively caused by diversity at the psilocybin locus among lineages of P. cubensis, impact the psilocybin experience and offer varying treatment options for a range of mental health conditions.
373




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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: The Manure Tour: Bottlenecked Magic Mushrooms Since Psilocybe cubensis Spread From Its Unknown Centre of Origin [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #28490530 - 10/03/23 01:29 AM (3 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
By bottlenecking I think they mean that a species was introduced once to a new place and spread there.

In your woodlover example there would be a lot of crossbreeding with existing patches, so no bottleneck.




I have to disagree with you there Alan. There has been natural selective breeding by the local deer and elk populations in the PNW. There is a 26 mile stretch where the Azures have been spread and developed isolated colonies (so no cross breeding with other patches) with defining characteristics such as vastly different architecture of the mushroom as well as indole content. The azures from the south of Washington have different genetics than the azures far north. I haven’t sent them in for testing but one variety causes wood lover paralysis and the other does not. One is a very thick, white, symmetrical variety and the other is thinner, taller, with more reddish brown stems. The caps tend to more floppy and less symmetrical. The weather can effect the growth patterns but generally speaking these are the differences.

Cape D has most of the original phenos and as they get spread north, the phenos slowly begin to fade to a less diverse and more distinct variety. Fort Stevens has a distinct variety  different from Cape D. It has very symmetrical. Good sized fruits, also a smaller version of the same shape/look. Cape D has the monsters. Huge fruits and a lot of genetic diversity. You can find all kinds breeding together in one place. 

There is a river in between the two main patches cape d and fort thus they have distinct genetic variations.

The distance the animals have spread the Azures is related to the animals getting wood lovers paralysis. Since the paralysis causing azures are closest to the mouth of the Columbia and there are islolated patches all over the coastline…

If you got your strains from cape D, virtually no bottle neck there….but 20 miles north and across the river in Oregon there seems to be evidence of a bottle neck.


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: The Manure Tour: Bottlenecked Magic Mushrooms Since Psilocybe cubensis Spread From Its Unknown Centre of Origin [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #28490825 - 10/03/23 09:56 AM (3 months, 23 days ago)

I believe in terms of inbreeding of cubes they are speaking on the genetically diluted material pointing to the continuous and repeated cloning of certain genetic lineages, phenotypic selections, and reducing the genetic diversity down by continuous and repetition of the process. To the point where you take spore, and the results are little to no genetic variation of a certain variety.

If that is so, it makes sense it becomes genetically inferior, and less diverse - including potentially the synthesis of certain compounds, or at least a push away from a natural synergy.

Kind of in the same way Cannabis has become what it is today - In the beginning, you had natural landrace cannabis, very low THC content, but a natural, diverse and large form of synergy of different compounds and terpenes, other compounds had more of a role because THC content was in natural balance and synergy within the plant.

Now, of course THC is up around 30% of the total plant. It seems that is the route of Cubensis as well, increase psilocybin contents, decrease away from other alkaloids, or make them less of an impact because the synergy disappears with overwhelming potency, both intentionally and by side-effect of breeding and human selection.


Though can be remedied by breeding back with landrace genetics to introduce that diversity again. The key to know would be what compounds are naturally falling away, or becoming lessened by inbreeding, or if it just a natural imbalance of synergy in the experience by exasperating Psilocybin contents.


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
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Re: The Manure Tour: Bottlenecked Magic Mushrooms Since Psilocybe cubensis Spread From Its Unknown Centre of Origin [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #28490946 - 10/03/23 12:29 PM (3 months, 23 days ago)

Yeah I’d say in the case of PNW azurescens from the coastline, there is a bottle neck at fort stevens, because it seems to only have one kind there…. Cape D has lots of variations and as u go north there is less and less diversity until you get to mostly phenos that don’t cause paralysis. There is definitely a natural selection going on by the animals and by the original floods that brought Azures to the locations from up river.

This has caused a variation in genetics between the phenos based on location. Enough to produce quantifiable effects such as paralysis or lack there of and change in fungal architecture.

Azurescens are a very close, near identical variation of P.Subs from Australia. So in theory they were already a clone/selection from Aus so they are actually bottlenecked in the PNW. Been bottle necked since the 1970’s when azures were intentionally placed in an island in the middle of the Columbia. Then further bottle necked from flooding and by Deer/elk due to effects from wood lovers paralysis.


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


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Re: The Manure Tour: Bottlenecked Magic Mushrooms Since Psilocybe cubensis Spread From Its Unknown Centre of Origin [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #28490987 - 10/03/23 01:14 PM (3 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Now, of course THC is up around 30% of the total plant. It seems that is the route of Cubensis as well, increase psilocybin contents, decrease away from other alkaloids, or make them less of an impact because the synergy disappears with overwhelming potency, both intentionally and by side-effect of breeding and human selection.




So I’m in Portland, and have close friends that own/run thc testing labs here in town. Here’s what they say about thc testing and 30% + results:
Most of the 30% + and even the 20%+ THC results were adulterated. There is reason to believe the recent 3% psilocybin results were also due to adulteration of the substrate and not breeding skillz as people would have you believe. Just like in cannabis.

When you think about how quality hashish is around 50-60% thc, it’s hard to imagine other parts of the plant containing 30% due to the shear volume of fibers alone in plant matter. I would argue that the increase in thc seen is related almost exclusively to trichome production resulting in increased THC scores and the addition of extra THC. When testing cannabis, the farm sends in carefully selected buds and in many cases adds Keef and/or additional thc products.

No one really has 30% thc weed just like there are no cubensis that consistently test at 3% or above…. If there was, it would have caused a frenzy within cannabis and mushroom growers and it simply has not.

3% psilocybin is more than triple cubes average content. Which happened basically overnight. If this was true, every mushroom chocolate maker and extractor in town would be using these genetics. They aren’t, because the results were bullshit. If there was a cube, three times stronger than the most potent mushrooms in the world….someone would have wrote a trip report, it would have been record breaking and a ground breaking accomplishment. We aren’t seeing anything like that at all….just a quiet ‘we just created a mushroom three times stronger than the strongest’.

Bull. Shit.

No they didn’t. They cheated. Then they go on this misinformation campaign about how adding precursors to substrates is bullshit. Even though Gartz proved it was true years ago. Their entire argument is that Gartz was lying about his results.

I assure you, they are misleading people and have gone to great lengths to make sure no one finds out. Even as far as posting on the shroomery and Reddit to promote their dishonest rhetoric. Yes, I’m saying there are fake threads on here written by  people for the purpose of controlling the conversation around how they got 3% results. Their intent is to cover up this important detail of their operation and success.


Edited by djbabyjesus (10/03/23 01:46 PM)


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