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OfflineShroomNugget
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Registered: 02/10/23
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Looking for cultivation tips in regards to albinos!
    #28378362 - 06/28/23 10:09 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I'm struggling growing a handful of albino type shrooms and I can't figure out why, and it's driving me nuts.

Yeti: I only ever get a large handful of fruits. The first couple usually grow large and then abort before the caps open. Many start off great but abort for apparently no reason as they get larger.

TAM: Same story as above. See image from this tub I gave up on and harvested yesterday:


I had this amazing looking tub of Albino Chodewave that's still going. I had one very early pin that again aborted after growing to the size of a marble. Since then this thing knotted up like CRAZY and looked like this yesterday:


and just now I snapped this shot which shows massive pin abortion all around the center and some larger ones:


I created this thread a few days ago but it didn't seem to result in any useful answers:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28370374#28370374

Spawn was super clean and a tiny bit over field capacity as I like it, in CVG with whole oats at 3.5:1 with another 0.5 quart CVG psudocasing. I keep my tubs in a martha with CO2 levels below 700ppm and constant 80% humidity and an air temperature of 71-74 degrees. I either dubtub or keep the lids on and crack/offset for FAE. I use a martha like setup to keep humidity up higher than normal which really helps keeps subs/tubs from drying out.

If anybody can tell my why many albinos like these listed here like to abort even when all conditions seem great, man I'd really appreciate it. This problem that keeps repeating itself with different variants of albino is extremely annoying and I can't pinpoint the issue.

Edit: For the record I recently got a great first flush of Albino JMF but unfortunately they're below avg potency. :frown:


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Edited by ShroomNugget (06/29/23 09:55 AM)

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Offline3.A.M
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Re: Looking for cultivation tips in regards to albinos! [Re: ShroomNugget] * 1
    #28378463 - 06/29/23 12:20 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Hey man, I’d try skipping the martha, they’re already in tubs so just make sure they’re dialed in and you should be fine.
Maybe go a little under field capacity also, that’s how I run all my tubs, on or below is fine, over is usually asking for issues, that combined with the extra humidity from the Martha is a recipe for weird shit or just straight up shit unfortunately.
Caps usually don’t open too much on those guys either, them softening is their way of saying they’re ready.
👍


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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Looking for cultivation tips in regards to albinos! [Re: 3.A.M] * 1
    #28378563 - 06/29/23 04:13 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid:

Fix your surface conditions - marthas are a waste of time and effort for cubes as simple plastic tubs works perfectly fine.

Proper Surface Moisture / When to Increase FAE

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Offlinephlanx
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Re: Looking for cultivation tips in regards to albinos! [Re: ShroomNugget]
    #28378574 - 06/29/23 04:34 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Hey Shroomnugget,

Cool username btw.

It sounds like you need to go back to the basics and get your process and conditions down before trying to experiment.  Using a martha and checking CO2 and all that is advanced stuff.  You are kind of trying to run when you should be learning how to walk.

Put some clean spawn and some coir mixed up in a tub and let it fruit.  Then when you are comfortable with that and know what it looks like, then start adding stuff if you want. 

From your pics, it doesn’t seem that your sub has the moisture to support your pinset, so as they are trying to draw the water they need, they are all dying off.

Most folks don’t use marthas for cubes, better grows are achieved with a 10 dollar plastic box.

KISS my friend.

Good luck!

Phlanx

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OfflineShroomNugget
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Re: Looking for cultivation tips in regards to albinos! [Re: ShroomNugget]
    #28378806 - 06/29/23 09:26 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

DOH! one response says maybe too much water. One says maybe too little.

Martha is already setup so it's no longer a waste of time. I noted the CO2 levels just to inform readers that it ikely isn't an FAE issue. I just have a sensor around to get an idea if I'm above or below 1000ppm and have a ducted fan to throw in FAE if required. IMO a martha can't really hurt, I don't understand why people think it's a hindrance to grows. That makes no sense to me.

That being said, please ignore the fact that I said anything about a martha. I don't run it like a martha with the tubs open. I run it to keep humidity up higher around the tubs so any FAE entering the tub via cracked lids keeps the humidity up. Yeah yeah, waste of time yadda yadda, but it already exists. I don't mean to discount people and their experience but sometimes people just throw a simple easy answer out there.

To back that up I've moved tubs out of the martha and into my bedroom to see if they performed differently and they never do. I feel like you're all focusing on the martha = bad and I can't see that being THE issue. I want to focus on what these particular shrooms need/want, and what they aren't getting.

I feel like I'm ready to run, phlanx! Its just some albinos im having issues with, they must need something slightly different from what Im offering My AJMF came in great. Recent harvests:

AJMF


P. Nat.


Edit: Surface conditions are rarely an issue for me. I mist lightly as needed for micro-beadery, usually twice a day. Argh I hate when people assume I have zero experience in some of these areas and just spurt out the simplest of answers. :/ I don't mean to sound unappreciated but it often doesnt help. I need someone experienced who has had similar issues and figured out what it was!

That or apparently all I've done and grown involved a LOT of luck! lol

Edit2: The tubs pictured look dry because I often take pics before I mist them. If you mist them then take a pic then people are all like "OMG SO SATURATED, TOO MUCH WATER!" The ACW I'm hesitant to mist because there's almost no myc or sub showing, it's literally all pins. In my experience misting pins or mushrooms themselves doesn't help  and only hurts/causes aborts.


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Edited by ShroomNugget (06/29/23 10:00 AM)

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Offlinephlanx
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Re: Looking for cultivation tips in regards to albinos! [Re: ShroomNugget]
    #28378951 - 06/29/23 12:20 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Alright, lets try to problem solve.

So, your surface conditions and FAE are good.  Your pinset is phenomenal, no issues there. 

You are saying it is with albinos specifically, is it one particular culture? Or have you tried multiple different albinos and get the same issues?  It is potentially genetics related if it is one culture, if it is more than one culture or strain, then that isn’t likely the problem.

Maybe the strains you are having trouble with would perform better with a casing?  Have you looked up any info or recent grows that are of the strains you are having trouble with?  Generally cubes all grow with the same conditions, but you could have some outliers, especially with the specialty strains.  Have you done pseudo-casings or actual post colonization casings?  They might help the micro-climate around the pins.

Think thats all I got.  If I think of anything else that might help, I’ll drop back in.

Good luck!

Phlanx

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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Looking for cultivation tips in regards to albinos! [Re: ShroomNugget]
    #28379010 - 06/29/23 12:55 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

You may not be using it 'traditionally' buit your martha is effecting your surface conditions in a negative way.  It's not that they can't work, it's just easier to not use them at all due to the added complexities they create when troubleshooting issues like this. 

If you are needing to mist them before first flush, thats a sign that you have too much FAE.  The ACW pinset failing is likely due to lack of moisture reserve to support the massive pinset.

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OfflineShroomNugget
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Registered: 02/10/23
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Re: Looking for cultivation tips in regards to albinos! [Re: PBJ710]
    #28379155 - 06/29/23 03:22 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

phlanx said:
Alright, lets try to problem solve.

So, your surface conditions and FAE are good.  Your pinset is phenomenal, no issues there. 

You are saying it is with albinos specifically, is it one particular culture? Or have you tried multiple different albinos and get the same issues?  It is potentially genetics related if it is one culture, if it is more than one culture or strain, then that isn’t likely the problem.

Maybe the strains you are having trouble with would perform better with a casing?  Have you looked up any info or recent grows that are of the strains you are having trouble with?  Generally cubes all grow with the same conditions, but you could have some outliers, especially with the specialty strains.  Have you done pseudo-casings or actual post colonization casings?  They might help the micro-climate around the pins.

Think thats all I got.  If I think of anything else that might help, I’ll drop back in.

Good luck!

Phlanx




The types I've had issues with are Yeti, TAM, and looks likely that ACW may do the same. I'm eager to get home shortly to check today's progress. Today is kind of a make it or break it kinda day for this tub. Either those fruits stretched out when I get home or the little hardy guys are going to abort. Harvestable? Yes - ideal? Heck no!

I've only ever cased during spawning, around 0.3-0.5" thick, with CVG. I recently bought some organic peat moss to try fahtsters casing TEK with some PE varieties I have (currently on grain). I didn't think it was really necessary to case unless cultivating PE phenos.

Search for albino chodewave and you won't find much here >.<


Quote:

PBJ710 said:
You may not be using it 'traditionally' buit your martha is effecting your surface conditions in a negative way.  It's not that they can't work, it's just easier to not use them at all due to the added complexities they create when troubleshooting issues like this. 

If you are needing to mist them before first flush, thats a sign that you have too much FAE.  The ACW pinset failing is likely due to lack of moisture reserve to support the massive pinset.




Can you provide any proof that shows my hodge podge martha is hurting my setup? How could it negatively effecting the grow? Serious questions because I don't just take "I say this so it's true" from anybody without some referencing. :smile:

I usually don't have to mist before first flush, but after first. I may mist here or there if the top of sub looks dry..... because if you give any form of FAE at all then it WILL dry out some. I try to compensate for this.

Honestly I'm just kind of tired of people saying "well I do it differently and I have no problem so it's obviously the thing that's different from what I do" answers, argh.

Phlanx, you're a champion! :smile:


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Offline3.A.M
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Re: Looking for cultivation tips in regards to albinos! [Re: ShroomNugget]
    #28379192 - 06/29/23 03:59 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

We’re just trying to help and the reason the Martha keeps coming up is because you’ve got an odd situation that no one else is experiencing and the only thing you’re doing differently to everyone else is putting your tubs in a Martha, therefore if you remove the one thing that you’re doing differently to everyone else you might change your results.
If you say youve been having this issue outside of the Martha also then you need to reevaluate everything from spores up to fruiting, but albinos shouldn’t behave too much differently from other cubes except for time frames and other minor quirks.
As everyone’s been saying, Martha’s simply aren’t necessary unless you’re growing gourmet and pans, so maybe try a different tub set up, whether it be ez dial or traditional mono and see what happens but whatever you’re doing now isn’t working so you’re simply left with the option of methodical trial and error.


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OfflineShroomNugget
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Registered: 02/10/23
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Re: Looking for cultivation tips in regards to albinos! [Re: 3.A.M]
    #28379229 - 06/29/23 04:34 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

3.A.M said:
We’re just trying to help and the reason the Martha keeps coming up is because you’ve got an odd situation that no one else is experiencing and the only thing you’re doing differently to everyone else is putting your tubs in a Martha, therefore if you remove the one thing that you’re doing differently to everyone else you might change your results.
If you say youve been having this issue outside of the Martha also then you need to reevaluate everything from spores up to fruiting, but albinos shouldn’t behave too much differently from other cubes except for time frames and other minor quirks.
As everyone’s been saying, Martha’s simply aren’t necessary unless you’re growing gourmet and pans, so maybe try a different tub set up, whether it be ez dial or traditional mono and see what happens but whatever you’re doing now isn’t working so you’re simply left with the option of methodical trial and error.




That's a fair enough answer, brother! In my head I just can't get the fact out that mushrooms like high humidity but also need some FAE, so in my head said tent can't possibly cause any harm....I'm a mechanical engineer so I'm considerably technical and this logic is killing me, lol. But.... I'm guess it could be a cause.I was really hoping someone who had similar issues would have chimed in by now that knew the exact issue. Oh well.

Updated ACW tub: Some pins doing better, others aborting HARD. Is it possible they are simply getting squished and don't have the room to expand so they abort for some reason?



Does anybody have some pixie dust I can just throw on that amazing looking pinset to make them pop instantly? lol


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Edited by ShroomNugget (06/29/23 04:42 PM)

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Offline3.A.M
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Re: Looking for cultivation tips in regards to albinos! [Re: ShroomNugget]
    #28379761 - 06/30/23 05:06 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

All g!👍
Don’t stress, the myc knows there’s no way all those pins can mature at once so (fingers crossed) it’s aborting some to put energy into maturing the rest, best case:shrug:
I tend to stay hopeful till the end though, otherwise it’s just a waiting game 😐

Btw, how are your tubs now getting fae if they’re no longer in the Martha? Dub tubbed?


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Edited by 3.A.M (06/30/23 05:10 AM)

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OfflineShroomNugget
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Re: Looking for cultivation tips in regards to albinos! [Re: 3.A.M]
    #28380077 - 06/30/23 11:36 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

They've always been dub tubbed, and they're back in the martha. They were out a couple days but there's really no difference in growth whether in martha or in my bedroom.

For FAE I went iverboard but it works. Cheap inline 100 cfm fan ducted straight from outside to the tent with a hepa filter in place. Runs for 3m every 30m which keeps my CO2 at desirable levels.

The 'tent' is the corner of my basement below my stairs that I partitioned off with 4 mil plastic. It was air tight before I cut the door in it and installed zippers. Now the co2 vent out the bottom at the door. I have the fan for FAE due to my cultivation area being in a basement corner. Not great but it was all I had to work with.... hence all the modifications.

Edit: I dont like to mention it because people freak the eff out, but I have a small radiant oil heater in there and my humidifier automated up to 80% humidity. The heater helps foster faster growth, the humidifier keeps the space from drying out due to the heater, and from the FAE exchange twice an hour.

People say ditch the martha but it's dialed in to provide constant 73-74 degree temps with constant FAE and 80% humidity to keep things from getting dry. Its a kown fact shrooms need these things so IMO it's a great setup. Everyone else would say ditch it and go tub only.... and IMO that's mostly because it makes it easier for THEM to answer a question. 🙄


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Edited by ShroomNugget (06/30/23 11:44 AM)

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