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Pandaskis
Eating Bamboo



Registered: 03/14/23
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] 2
#28377039 - 06/27/23 08:08 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
Tormato said: I agree quantifying is a moot point; I find this hobby is more about visual cues more than anything.
Every grow is unique in a way so we learn ways to adapt. 
As for CO2 I've only seen this relevant to gourmet species in which case an adequate intake and exhaust system handles the build up.
That's actually what I'm getting at with this quantify questions we can't do shit with this evaporation or CO2 talk cause we have no effective way to check these things.
Surface conditions on the other hand? We all know what good surface conditions look like at a glance and no I can't quantify it because it's a descriptor not a measurement.
I think this was what i was trying to say in my initial post, albeit a bit less eloquently. Visual indicators are more useful for me personally than theoretical and scientific indicators. Im first and foremost a cultivator, and i only dabble in science haha
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nektar61
Heterotroph



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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] 1
#28377043 - 06/27/23 08:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I really can't wait until the next time a noob with zero grows posts some variant of "evaporation triggers pinning." #triggered
I'll say it again in case anyone missed it: the original posts on here about that concept, from the George W. Bush presidency, were talking about fanning PF Tek grows to "trigger pinning by evaporation."
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NFLProof
Sponge



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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Smellyhobbit] 6
#28377050 - 06/27/23 08:14 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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You're one of my pinning triggers.
-------------------- Yeah, yeah.
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Pandaskis
Eating Bamboo



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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] 2
#28377052 - 06/27/23 08:15 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nektar61 said: I really can't wait until the next time a noob with zero grows posts some variant of "evaporation triggers pinning." #triggered
I'll say it again in case anyone missed it: the original posts on here about that concept, from the George W. Bush presidency, were talking about fanning PF Tek grows to "trigger pinning by evaporation."
Does it trigger you simply cause their parroting that, and you feel it has no susbtance or helps in the given situation, ive definitely said that before, but usually in context with like 3-4 other pinning triggers.
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Smellyhobbit
Actual Retard



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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: NFLProof] 4
#28377057 - 06/27/23 08:17 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
NFLProof said: You're one of my pinning triggers.

Wherever you are are my proper surface conditions, bb β€οΈ
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Smellyhobbit] 1
#28377065 - 06/27/23 08:20 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Get a room
--------------------
Ask about free prints: Ps tampanesis, subtropicalis, cubensis(ESS) and Pan cyanescens
Balance in life is like running on ice.
π
π
π
£π
£π
π
π
π
π
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"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
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milkboy
Child



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Posts: 2,524
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] 3
#28377068 - 06/27/23 08:21 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I wana pin
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aPurpleCray0n
His Dudeness



Registered: 02/13/23
Posts: 290
Loc: π¨π¦
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] 4
#28377069 - 06/27/23 08:21 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nektar61 said: I really can't wait until the next time a noob with zero grows posts some variant of "evaporation triggers pinning." #triggered
I'll say it again in case anyone missed it: the original posts on here about that concept, from the George W. Bush presidency, were talking about fanning PF Tek grows to "trigger pinning by evaporation."
I still think you need to run a fruiting setup at 100% humidity and prove that before you go and get all pent up ready to attack someone you disagree with, especially a βnoobieβ as you keep trying to flex.
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Smellyhobbit
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: milkboy] 3
#28377071 - 06/27/23 08:22 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
milkboy said: I wana pin
Snuggle up, buttercup
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Chamo
Mamarracho


Registered: 04/03/23
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
#28377075 - 06/27/23 08:27 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
Chamo said:
Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
Tormato said: I agree quantifying is a moot point; I find this hobby is more about visual cues more than anything.
Every grow is unique in a way so we learn ways to adapt. 
As for CO2 I've only seen this relevant to gourmet species in which case an adequate intake and exhaust system handles the build up.
That's actually what I'm getting at with this quantify questions we can't do shit with this evaporation or CO2 talk cause we have no effective way to check these things.
Surface conditions on the other hand? We all know what good surface conditions look like at a glance and no I can't quantify it because it's a descriptor not a measurement.
But psycho, you could quantify co2. You could quantify evaporation rates in the substrate by weighing them. You can quantify a lot of environmental variables if you want to. Whether it means anything or not would be another argument.
I agree that surface conditions are reasonable to assess at a glance. But how did you achieve those surface conditions? And how do you quantify it? At that point we are talking very subjectively. And you are using descriptors as measurements.
If this is an art and there are not quantifiers, then why is your subjective experience more valid if we both arrive at the same surface conditions?
If itβs not possible to quantify then why are you arguing so aggressively for one side? I donβt know why itβs such an issue.
Yes, I already agreed you could but how do we?
And once again surface conditions are a descriptor. I can't ask how much surface conditions. But I can ask how much CO2 per volume or how much water turned into vapor.
Yes that what I said in the post. If we are both arriving at the same general description of healthy surface conditions, how we arrived there is irrelevant. Itβs all just your experience and preference.
That is if what you say is true, and there is no way to quantify it. If there is no way to quantify it then there are no claims to be made for either side. What is necessary or not necessary is however the grower can achieve general descriptions of proper surface conditions.
It comes down to personal experience and opinions if we are not quantifying anything. Why are you so confident in what you say then?
Edited by Chamo (06/27/23 08:28 PM)
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999999999
VordhosbnQ


Registered: 08/17/22
Posts: 2,212
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Smellyhobbit] 2
#28377078 - 06/27/23 08:28 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I trigged my pin hard while reading this thread
and now a drawing 
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] 1
#28377079 - 06/27/23 08:31 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chamo said:
Yes that what I said in the post. If we are both arriving at the same general description of healthy surface conditions, how we arrived there is irrelevant. Itβs all just your experience and preference.
That is if what you say is true, and there is no way to quantify it. If there is no way to quantify it then there are no claims to be made for either side. What is necessary or not necessary is however the grower can achieve general descriptions of proper surface conditions.
It comes down to personal experience and opinions if we are not quantifying anything. Why are you so confident in what you say then?
Because even you agreed with me. Fanning has no noticeable effect on your grows either way those were your words dude.
--------------------
Ask about free prints: Ps tampanesis, subtropicalis, cubensis(ESS) and Pan cyanescens
Balance in life is like running on ice.
π
π
π
£π
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π
π
π
π
   
"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
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Chamo
Mamarracho


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
#28377082 - 06/27/23 08:35 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I suppose I misspoke.
I was trying to say that if there is no way to quantify it as you say, then Iβm not going to claim it has a benefit. But in the same way, you canβt really claim itβs unnecessary. However you can reach ideal surface conditions is all that matter, whatever that means.
Do what works for you.
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo]
#28377087 - 06/27/23 08:39 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Tormato described what that means
--------------------
Ask about free prints: Ps tampanesis, subtropicalis, cubensis(ESS) and Pan cyanescens
Balance in life is like running on ice.
π
π
π
£π
£π
π
π
π
π
π
   
"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
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nektar61
Heterotroph



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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: 999999999] 2
#28377089 - 06/27/23 08:40 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gleyck said: I trigged my pin hard while reading this thread
and now a drawing 
I like the drawing and presentation. Is that you?
But... "And carbon dioxide accumulates at the bottom...."
NO. If it did every mammal on earth would die. That's been debunked here for a long time.
For what it's worth, this whole thread started from me seeing a Trusted Cultivator with 5 years on here who grows great shrooms saying this week "Evaporation is a major factor for pinning."
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SirPsycho
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] 1
#28377092 - 06/27/23 08:44 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nektar61 said:
NO. If it did every mammal on earth would die. That's been debunked here for a long time.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28365102#28365102
--------------------
Ask about free prints: Ps tampanesis, subtropicalis, cubensis(ESS) and Pan cyanescens
Balance in life is like running on ice.
π
π
π
£π
£π
π
π
π
π
π
   
"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
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nektar61
Heterotroph



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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
#28377097 - 06/27/23 08:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
nektar61 said:
NO. If it did every mammal on earth would die. That's been debunked here for a long time.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28365102#28365102

You kid, but....you WILL suffocate if you sleep on the floor if your vindictive ex-girlfriend cuts a hole in the wall from the next dorm room and puts several bricks of carbon dioxide in your room, and you're passed out drunk.
Happened on CSI and I think was based on real thing. But that's a fuck of a lot more C02 than our poor little shrooms have to endure and slight FAE mixes it up with air, obviously.
My doctor's office blood draw room has a big vat of liquid nitrogen for freezing samples. Probably 30 gallon size. It's chained to the wall. I couldn't picture anyone stealing it and the chain is thin, so asked "is the chain so it won't wander off at night?"
The tech said "No, it's so it won't fall over. If it falls over it can displace all the oxygen in the room fast enough to suffocate people. Not to mention freezing your feet so they break off." -- I think Stamets first wrote about the "carbon dioxide falls to the bottom of the tub" thing. I'd bet that most of the b.s. shroom tek out there came from Stamets guessing.
Edited by nektar61 (06/27/23 08:56 PM)
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Glomus
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61]
#28377100 - 06/27/23 08:56 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I have thought about this as well. I have a few theories. Which kind of goes along with different temps triggering fruiting too.
What if fruiting conditions trigger different conditions for different kinds of bacteria to bloom, that can initiate or encourage fruiting in different ways?
Just a wild idea, and purely anecdotal. However you might be able to find different bacteria that are commonly in substrates with mushrooms that could thrive in what ever conditions you have your tub in fruiting. Temp, RH and substrate type and maybe even concentration of gases present.
Edited by Glomus (06/27/23 08:59 PM)
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mushhead
Livonia Wanderer



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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] 2
#28377109 - 06/27/23 09:03 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
Tormato said: I agree quantifying is a moot point; I find this hobby is more about visual cues more than anything.
Every grow is unique in a way so we learn ways to adapt. 
As for CO2 I've only seen this relevant to gourmet species in which case an adequate intake and exhaust system handles the build up.
That's actually what I'm getting at with this quantify questions we can't do shit with this evaporation or CO2 talk cause we have no effective way to check these things.
Surface conditions on the other hand? We all know what good surface conditions look like at a glance and no I can't quantify it because it's a descriptor not a measurement.
I knew you had to be getting at something with that round about questioning. I Just kept thinking to myself there is no real way I can even quantify evaporation at all. The best I could have given were how to measure humidity, but I see now that wasn't the point at all.
-------------------- Meditation Principles
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nektar61
Heterotroph



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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Glomus] 1
#28377111 - 06/27/23 09:04 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Glomus said: What if fruiting conditions trigger different conditions for different kinds of bacteria to bloom, that can initiate or encourage fruiting in different ways?
I don't think that's it. The air circulation in a tub or shoebox comes from the heat given off by the mycelium. Put an accurate digital thermometer probe into the center of a very clean grow that's about to pin. It's 3 to 6 degrees F hotter than room temp. It's not from bacteria, it's from the mycelium itself.
Fun fact: the idea that became the whole "dialed in monotub" was invented by Roger Rabbit and he got the idea while thinking about some engineering hack that he saw in use when he worked on the Alaska Pipeline in the 1970s, a passive evaporation system they had to keep pipes from freezing. Here's the thread from 2007 where he explains it: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6880451#6880451 -
Quote:
Glomus said: Which kind of goes along with different temps triggering fruiting too.
Shrooms will pin and fruit at any temp between about 40 F and about 95 F. I know about the 40 F because someone on here from Alaska (not RR) said he fruited at that temp approx. Said it took much longer but worked. I'm pretty sure it was user name alaskappalachian. And I know about the 95 F because I've seen it in Texas in a cow pasture.
I keep my shroom closet at 70 F. That seems like the sweet spot between fast and contam. Though lower temp might be better, some say slower grows make stronger shrooms, that the reason PE are twice as strong is they take twice as long to grow.
Edited by nektar61 (06/27/23 09:14 PM)
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