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johnukguy
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] 2
#28376667 - 06/27/23 03:13 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I'm in the middle I guess on this one. In terms of saying that evaporation is a major trigger, I say it and yes it is parroted and somewhat lazy. To me it's much more that any evaporation is indicative of more general conditions which are conducive to pinning. So it's a helpful symptom perhaps, rather than a cause. I'm down with Mushhead on this:
Quote:
I believe that evaporation is an essential part of the pinning process because it shows that a proper FAE cycle is being kept.
Great post by the way. It's good to see that things are still being questioned. It may be that someone comes along and provides more solid evidence that evaporation by itself is the major pinning trigger, but I have to admit that you're right in that I haven't seen much that supports this. I do think it's a kind of shorthand, used instead of mentioning all of the general conditions that are conducive to pinning.
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Screwup
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] 3
#28376672 - 06/27/23 03:19 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Omg you were my #8 ignorer? If you’ll look at my tag it’s RE RE formed meaning I’m back on my bullshit homie
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nektar61
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: johnukguy]
#28376675 - 06/27/23 03:22 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnukguy said: Great post by the way. It's good to see that things are still being questioned...
Thank you.
Quote:
johnukguy said: I'm in the middle I guess on this one. In terms of saying that evaporation is a major trigger, I say it and yes...
What about Martha tents? They grow shrooms and have humidity but no evaporation.
Also, why the emphasis on pins in this bit of shroom lore? We're growing shrooms not pins. See my comment above about 8 chonkers vs 100 tiny shrooms.
Also, plins can grow in sealed plates with no condensation, indicating no evaporation.
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nektar61
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Screwup] 3
#28376682 - 06/27/23 03:28 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Screwup said: Omg you were my #8 ignorer? If you’ll look at my tag it’s RE RE formed meaning I’m back on my bullshit homie
You youngsters and your REREs. I don't even know anymore.
You're making me laugh more than you're making me roll my eyes these days, so, un-ignored. Not sure when but in the past few weeks I think.
Oh, to continue answering your PF Tek question (and this applies to any cube tek):
Temp is a big trigger in pinning. Shrooms will pin at 60 degrees F, but much slower than at 70 F. I've heard this continues up to 84F or so, but I've always got lots of contam when fruiting at over 75 F.
70 is my jam, and I keep it there with a heater, fan, and thermostat, but in summer it can get over that.
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Tri
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] 3
#28376705 - 06/27/23 03:46 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nektar61 said: Humidity can accompany evaporation, but doesn't require evaporation. See my post about Marthas above.
See my post above about shrooms, not pins, being the goal.
I think my autism is getting in the way on this one lmao
But in a Martha the humidity is caused by evaporation, thats all a humidifier does, its an "evaporate water" machine. I think the only difference is where the evaporation is taking place (substrate surface vs reservoir), but even then there could be an argument made that all a Martha does is slow the drying out of the substrate that would be allowed by all the extra FAE.
Also I get your pin point, but every shroom starts as a pin, so wether its 5 or 50 I reckon you want to encourage the conditions that lead to pinning/fruiting to at least some degree no? I feel like a lot more noobs would be way happier if just a few pins equated to the same overall weight/potency as a forest of pins. The first pic in my signature was a forest of pins and they turned into handsome mushies for me.
Quote:
nektar61 said: Also, plins can grow in sealed plates with no condensation, indicating no evaporation.
Just like a terrarium there is moisture inside plates (especially poured hot) that will most definitely go through its own little water cycle with the temp swings. Even with no condensation, the moisture off the agar is going through that cycle, unless your plates are kept at a steady temp I reckon
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Edited by Tri (06/27/23 03:53 PM)
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Chamo
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tri]
#28376714 - 06/27/23 03:56 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Don’t forget that full colonization of the substrate/lack of nutrients can also cause pinning on a plate
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johnukguy
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo]
#28376717 - 06/27/23 03:59 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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There is no substrate on a plate.
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V: Who? Who is but the form following the function of what and what I am is a man in a mask.
Evey Hammond: Well I can see that.
V: Of course you can. I'm not questioning your powers of observation I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is”
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Chamo
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: johnukguy]
#28376718 - 06/27/23 04:00 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Hence why I said “lack of nutrients” for anyone that wants to play semantics
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aPurpleCray0n
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] 3
#28376724 - 06/27/23 04:07 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nektar61 said: What about Martha tents? They grow shrooms and have humidity but no evaporation.
This statement is simply untrue, evaporation happens until partial pressure is equal to vapor pressure at 100% humidity
There is still evaporation happening in a Martha tent with supplemented humidity, unless they’re holding 100%. I honestly haven’t looked toooo hard into Martha’s so maybe you can point me to an example where that has worked for someone but from what I have looked at I recall people struggling to get good pinsets in overly humidified tents
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milkboy
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] 4
#28376727 - 06/27/23 04:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Water doesnt evaporate in marthas is an invalid statement.
I dont see how a plin plate is relevant to getting good results growing mushrooms. With that logic we should tell people to seal up their tubs... oh wait...
Edit. Goddamn it purple crayon
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Screwup
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: aPurpleCray0n] 3
#28376728 - 06/27/23 04:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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So what I’m getting from this is everything causes or can cause pinning?
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: milkboy] 1
#28376732 - 06/27/23 04:15 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
milkboy said: Goddamn it purple crayon
Hahaha great minds… 😎
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Land Trout
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: johnukguy] 1
#28376733 - 06/27/23 04:17 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnukguy said: There is no substrate on a plate.
agar is a substrate
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Pandaskis
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Screwup] 2
#28376737 - 06/27/23 04:22 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I think the statement of "evaporation is a trigger for pinning" is not exactly a scientific claim, but a practical claim. While mycology itself is a branch of science, for all intents and purposes, many hobbie mycologists arent digging into the nitty gritty, they're just trying to successfully grow mushrooms, and grow them well. Ofc theres nothing wrong with getting into the nitty gritty science behind it, its important and what helps us make strides into better ways to grow.
The statement evaporation is a pinning trigger is a visual indicator of what we are chasing as cultivators. We can visualize what evaporation off mycelium might look like (water beads drying up and water not pooling). While it may or may not be the case that humidity is a more accurate way to describe what causes pinning, Im not sure how good that is as practical advice. Its not exactly visual, and i think it starts to get people into bad habits such as relying on hygrometers to measure humidity, and chasing a number rather than a grow condition.
I like this conversation, i think its an important one, but i also think the advice of "evaporation is a pinning trigger" works, even if its not exactly correct.
Edited by Pandaskis (06/27/23 04:23 PM)
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Land Trout
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Pandaskis] 2
#28376754 - 06/27/23 04:37 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Good post. Like saying water makes plants grow, sometimes an oversimplification makes things simpler. One problem I see with saying evaporation is a pinning trigger is that it can be taken as let the water evaporate off the surface by fanning or…. And then misting so that evaporation can continue. Seems like a lot of noobs get in to that loop hole.
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Pandaskis
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Land Trout] 1
#28376760 - 06/27/23 04:41 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Land Trout said: Good post. Like saying water makes plants grow, sometimes an oversimplification makes things simpler. One problem I see with saying evaporation is a pinning trigger is that it can be taken as let the water evaporate off the surface by fanning or…. And then misting so that evaporation can continue. Seems like a lot of noobs get in to that loop hole.
Maybe if we said slight and gradual evaporation, it might not be technically true, but once again practical pseudoscience 😂
Edited by Pandaskis (06/27/23 04:42 PM)
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Land Trout
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Pandaskis]
#28376772 - 06/27/23 04:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Amazing no one’s come in fighting yet. Three pages questioning old advice, this need some kind of award.
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Chamo
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Land Trout]
#28376774 - 06/27/23 04:52 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Nothing is in a vacuum. It is like a fruit tree. Certain environmental factors stimulate the tree to stop focusing energy on producing leaves and more on producing fruits. It doesn’t mean that everything else goes out of the window.
Aren’t we talking about real-world stimulation to change the growth pattern from vegetative to fruiting? Something has to change for that transition to happen.
When mycelium is colonizing a substrate in a sealed tub, the humidity is very high. When it’s introduced into fruiting conditions it is generally kept at a high level. So with no real change, I don’t see how that could trigger the mycelium to change its growth behavior.
My understanding was that FAE, not evaporation, was a contributing factor to changing the mycelium to fruiting growth. That when co2 levels begin to fall, this change from high concentration to low concentration stimulates the beginning of pin formation (along with other contributing factors)
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Pandaskis
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] 1
#28376781 - 06/27/23 04:57 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I guess the question is whether the FAE is there to only lower the concentration of CO2, or if its there to evaporate moisture off the mycelium, or if its a combination of both.
Im too noob to actually answer the questions, but im curious enough to ask them :P
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Chamo
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Pandaskis]
#28376787 - 06/27/23 05:02 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Maybe I misunderstand what fanning is to some people here. It is not as if I’m standing over the tub straddling it while waving my arms trying to take flight.
Sometimes I throw a co2 meter in a tub. And it rises quickly. And whenever I pass by or when I feel like it, I just give it a wave, until the co2 drops. I never heard of evaporation as a pinning trigger until this post. When I fan I just do it to quickly replace the stale are and move on, not to “mist and dry it out”.
That was because my understanding is that the change in co2 concentration was the major stimulating event.
This was a good post to read to understand more why people jumped my ass originally. I see more of what the misunderstanding was.
Edited by Chamo (06/27/23 05:04 PM)
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