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mystictherapy
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Wood and cubensis
#28376630 - 06/27/23 02:22 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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So I have 2 cats, and I give them a litter that is made out of pine. it's practically just pine sawdust compressed into little pellets. one pellet is about the size of a large orally taken pill, but from what I can tell absorbs a similar amount of water, and if you grind it up the smallest bit it becomes very very fluffy.
my question is has anybody tried using something similar for cubensis? I was thinking something similar to a PF tek but with the vermiculite substituted out. possibly some ground up pellet in a bulk substrate? I know that cubensis like Hpoo and cococoir but my logic is that the sawdust/pellets are very similar to coco just quite a bit denser so maybe they would slow down colonization but prolong the amount of flushes?
has anybody tried this before? and if not does it sound something worth testing?
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johnukguy
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Just about anything can be used, though it's likely that that litter is more expensive than something like bulk oats, or even bird seed. People have grown on tampons and cigarette butts lol. And welcome by the way. Cats are essential to some grows.
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mystictherapy
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: johnukguy]
#28376707 - 06/27/23 03:49 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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interesting.
yeah that would make sense, I'm sure there's something better, although the litter is very cheap and fairly easy to get. any pet store has it and it's maybe 20$ for a 40 pound bag.
I actually am planning on trying a whole bunch of things once I have the basics down, such is the chemistry of my brain. Like if whole grain wheat works maybe slightly undercooked pasta will too? or if that doesn't work I have brown rice and millet noodles that might? once I get my agar down expect a bunch of weird and wacky experiments
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SirPsycho
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While not exactly the same thing I have used kitty litter that is made from crushed walnut shells, I've also used straw pellets meant for rabbit bedding. Both work great.
Really anything that holds water will do as a sub. I've actually been meaning to do hardwood fuel pellets with cubensis but keep forgetting. I have used loofas, books, pine cones both whole and crushed, a dish rag, tampons, cigarette butts and the aforementioned litter.
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SirPsycho
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: SirPsycho] 1
#28376719 - 06/27/23 04:01 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Ramen noodles make ok spawn 
My potato attempts all contamed out but I'm gonna try again soon
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mystictherapy
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: SirPsycho]
#28376777 - 06/27/23 04:54 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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please post about it when you do id be super interested to see how it goes!! but yeah idk if the logic tracks as well for you as it does for me, but it makes sense (to me) that if whole grain works so would pasta made out of said grain.
take everything I say with a grain of salt though I might be totally wrong
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SirPsycho
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Quote:
mystictherapy said: please post about it when you do id be super interested to see how it goes!! but yeah idk if the logic tracks as well for you as it does for me, but it makes sense (to me) that if whole grain works so would pasta made out of said grain.
take everything I say with a grain of salt though I might be totally wrong
If ramen noodles worked, I'm sure pasta will too. Only reason the potatoes contamed is cause I got fancy with LC.
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mystictherapy
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: SirPsycho]
#28376827 - 06/27/23 05:43 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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who knows if the ramen will, I haven't tried yet, I'm just unsatisfied with PF tek but also don't have much room to get anything else (meaning a PC).
I somehow doubt someone with as little experience as I have will be able to create anything worthwhile but who knows maybe brown rice (and millet) ramen noodles will work
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SirPsycho
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Quote:
mystictherapy said: who knows if the ramen will, I haven't tried yet,
Yes, but I have and got fruit from it.
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mystictherapy
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: SirPsycho]
#28376865 - 06/27/23 06:06 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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oh oh yes I see somehow I missed that what kind of noodle did you use though, and do you think it's possible to simply boil them, put them in a jar immediately, and then steam them? or do you think you'd NEED a PC
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SirPsycho
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Quote:
mystictherapy said: oh oh yes I see somehow I missed that what kind of noodle did you use though, and do you think it's possible to simply boil them, put them in a jar immediately, and then steam them? or do you think you'd NEED a PC
https://www.reddit.com/r/shrooms/comments/zrioj2/i_grew_cubes_on_ramen_noodles/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I pressure cooked them.
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mystictherapy
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: SirPsycho]
#28376874 - 06/27/23 06:12 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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wow that looked like it worked super well, I wonder why nobody else is trying it, it seems even easier than the BB tek
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SirPsycho
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It's really the same as any spawn to bulk tek for all intents and purposes.
Grain and flour is a lot cheaper than pre-packed food.
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mystictherapy
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: SirPsycho]
#28376920 - 06/27/23 06:44 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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right other than you could get it to work without a pressure cooker(maybe?), which would give beginners (me) an easy way to learn spawn to bulk as PF tek isn't that great for that (or so I've heard)
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SirPsycho
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Quote:
mystictherapy said: right other than you could get it to work without a pressure cooker(maybe?), which would give beginners (me) an easy way to learn spawn to bulk as PF tek isn't that great for that (or so I've heard)
Probably not
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mystictherapy
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: SirPsycho]
#28377824 - 06/28/23 01:13 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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pretty much figured. that's okay ill still try it when I get a PC
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dna24
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Quote:
mystictherapy said: right other than you could get it to work without a pressure cooker(maybe?), which would give beginners (me) an easy way to learn spawn to bulk as PF tek isn't that great for that (or so I've heard)
so you havent tried pf tek but think its not that great for beginners, yet its the only tek pushed to beginners for like 30yrs now. hmmm, maybe give it a try before you knock it.
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mystictherapy
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: dna24]
#28379680 - 06/30/23 01:09 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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oh no not what I meant, I'm currently doing PF tek, I've just heard that PF tek is a little unreliable when it comes to spawning to bulk as opposed to using a SGFC. not to mention inconvenient using 1/2 pint jars
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smalltalk_canceled
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havent several people become banned, martyrs or outcasts by chasing the mad dream of the paper, wood, cardboard type of cube nutrition theory?
i never visited this outside trying 2-3 pure sawdust jars spawned to coir, and it failed miserably.
if there were fruits they were mini or singular
-
Now, usually the situation outlined above, comes from people being unable to
a) source coir b) source coir-verm (autism demanding completeness or nothing)
If you have coir, you can add any carbohydrate you can consume to it, and the cubes will use it as nutrition. Think: any grain flour, corn, rice, maybe not potatoe
Fats, protein, are generally to be avoided, they should not make up the large part of the water carrying bulk sub or nutrition for cubes.
Pure ground up bran, 15-20% to rest straight coir, would work. Inoculate with whatever. However the substrate itself will need to be pasteurized or sterilized.
Starch water from boiling grains saturating sawdust would work, but be shitty material for a whole sub to be composed of, but a competent grower could pull it off with almost no preparation or reading.
But i dont know of anything coming close to the properties of uncontaminated coir, when it comes to casing, supplying water, and generally being close to 0 nutrition for most fungi and competitors - when composed of pure coir and nothing else
If you cannot source coir or succeed by yourself in for example, adding a proper amount of nutrition to a soil based substrate, hydrating and sterilizing it, successfully inoculating and colonization, followed by spawn and fruits, which is harder than grains to coir but still the same principles,
or any of the 1000 other variants,
then soak paper in starch water, mix it with relevant manure, and call it a thesis
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Edited by smalltalk_canceled (06/30/23 04:19 PM)
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mystictherapy
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ohhh interesting thank you!! I'm assuming youre talking about spawning PF tek to bulk here, right? would you recommend putting an actual grain/ground grain (ground quinoa, brown rice flour, etc.) in the substrate over pure coco coir? if so what percent dry weight would you recommend?
I was planning on using a 95% coco, 5% gypsum substrate hydrated with diluted water in a 3:1 ratio. this would be colonized with PF tek.
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik



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I recently was shocked at how much nutrition bran flour provided for cubes in a 2021 bag run
75% coir, field capacity, mixed with 20-25% brain or flour, if mixed properly, 0,1% below field saturation
will fruit terrificily for what you pay for the brain/coir
However, since you are adding nutrition to coir, they need time to colonize, and you will have to pasteurize/sterilize your sub
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik



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If you want to do jars - pf tek this way, its the same, it'll just be a lot of jars
The finished subs will be self supplied, they can just be fruited as normal pf tek, top fruit jars, or in a fruiting chamber
these days if im doing a fruiting chamber, i dont use a water holding material, i just have a few inches of clean, nutritionless water in the bottom. Your subs must not be in contact with this water, they must be suspended slightly above and in no way be standing in still water.
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mystictherapy
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would bran or bran flour be the only options, or is there something else I could use? I simply don't know where I could get bran, and ordering it isn't an option for me currently. I also should ass that im a beginner and this will be my first time doing a shoebox grow, so anything overly complicated, or with a smaller margin for error than plain coco id prefer to avoid.
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Babnik



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corn flour, any grain even rice flour will work
you cant grow on pure coir, because its basically nutritionless for what you are trying to grow
hell just post a picture of all the dry food supplies/items you have in your own kitchen, and i'll decide one for you
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mystictherapy
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only things I have in enough amounts to actually use. worth noting that the "gluten free flour" is almost entirely millet flour, and potato starch
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik



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ya got the flour of the king of grains, widely celebrated by the naked, lipid-stained, violent hooligans of shroomery
the millet flour is the supreme choice, for its Millet based Flour - so if its the main component, go for it
Potato starch/fiber, is however much less nutrition than millet flour, dont go for it
Both the gluten free and the cornmeal will do fine
Try to underhydrate your coir "5%", and add NO additional water for the flour.
That will help secure a good mix
Then just load to jars and PC normally
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mystictherapy
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okay perfect thank you! would I also add it to a bulk substrate? or would I leave my bulk substrate alone and do 100% coco
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik



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When they are finishing colonizing, they are ready to fruit. Breaking them up when they are 1/5 flour and 4/5 "bulk substrate coir" serves no purpose. Your flour 'pf teks' are ready to fruit or be put in fruiting conditions when they are fully colonized - as normal. Its not a widely different from rice flour + verm + coir, its similar.
For theese bran/coir you must just wide mouth jars, or you'll have to break up the colonies to spawn them.
Which probably works with clean good practise, but adds a vector for failing to a beginner which is already simplyfying things by using PF tek which foregoes
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mystictherapy
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right right I see
my original plan was to use half of the successful jars for fruiting and half for a shoebox grow, that way I can grow some almost certainly, but also start learning more substrate based grows
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Babnik



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You have to more solidly grasp what the function here is
Any of the flours you posed a picture of - they are nutrition
Vermiculite and coir, do not constitute carbohydrates->to energy by solo effort for many competitors. They are there to flesh out the substrate, create it, give it form, holes, texture, space - but most importantly - to hold water.
Nutrition + water holding material is already all they need to fruit
Your "flour" pf tek jars here would already be at 1:3 ratio in terms of nutrition mass to water holding mass, which is not something you'd expand to more "bulk substrate water holding material" - here - coir.
There's no faster fruiting way than inoculating a substrate like the one we are discussing here - because there is no secondary phase where it's forced to expand to more water or nutrition.
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mystictherapy
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okay that makes sense! one small question though, how can you be sure the substrate won't be contaminated? no matter what it's going to be exposed to the air and get contaminations in it.
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SirPsycho
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You sterilize it in a pressure cooker, inoculate in an SAB or in front of an LFH and wait for full colonization.
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SirPsycho
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Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said: havent several people become banned, martyrs or outcasts by chasing the mad dream of the paper, wood, cardboard type of cube nutrition theory?
i never visited this outside trying 2-3 pure sawdust jars spawned to coir, and it failed miserably.
if there were fruits they were mini or singular
-
Now, usually the situation outlined above, comes from people being unable to
a) source coir b) source coir-verm (autism demanding completeness or nothing)
If you have coir, you can add any carbohydrate you can consume to it, and the cubes will use it as nutrition. Think: any grain flour, corn, rice, maybe not potatoe
Fats, protein, are generally to be avoided, they should not make up the large part of the water carrying bulk sub or nutrition for cubes.
Pure ground up bran, 15-20% to rest straight coir, would work. Inoculate with whatever. However the substrate itself will need to be pasteurized or sterilized.
Starch water from boiling grains saturating sawdust would work, but be shitty material for a whole sub to be composed of, but a competent grower could pull it off with almost no preparation or reading.
But i dont know of anything coming close to the properties of uncontaminated coir, when it comes to casing, supplying water, and generally being close to 0 nutrition for most fungi and competitors - when composed of pure coir and nothing else
If you cannot source coir or succeed by yourself in for example, adding a proper amount of nutrition to a soil based substrate, hydrating and sterilizing it, successfully inoculating and colonization, followed by spawn and fruits, which is harder than grains to coir but still the same principles,
or any of the 1000 other variants,
then soak paper in starch water, mix it with relevant manure, and call it a thesis
Well, yeah if you wanna use wood as the source of nutrition but pretty sure Workman actually has a sawdust substrate tek for cubes
--------------------
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mystictherapy
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: SirPsycho]
#28380533 - 06/30/23 06:53 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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are we still talking about bulk substrates? like the kind that goes into a shoebox grow?
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SirPsycho
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What STC is suggesting is similar to pf tek and needs sterilization. IIRC Workman's sawdust tek was a traditional sub tek that gets mixed with colonized grain like coir in open air
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mystictherapy
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: SirPsycho]
#28380541 - 06/30/23 06:58 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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right right.
but in a typical shoebox grow you'd do 1 quart colonized PF tek jars and 3 quarts of pure hydrated coir?
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SirPsycho
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No, don't break pf tek into bulk. It defeats one of the major purposes of pf tek
--------------------
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mystictherapy
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: SirPsycho]
#28380543 - 06/30/23 07:00 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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wouldn't that provide more yield though? I understand there's a risk with it, thus doing have my pf tek jars normally and half in a shoebox.
is it IMPOSSIBLE to do a shoebox grow with PF tek jars or is it just not the usual method.
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SirPsycho
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Quote:
mystictherapy said: wouldn't that provide more yield though? I understand there's a risk with it, thus doing have my pf tek jars normally and half in a shoebox.
is it IMPOSSIBLE to do a shoebox grow with PF tek jars or is it just not the usual method.
Not much of a difference.
You can just bury pf cakes whole in coir. Just put as many as you can fit next to each other in a bin and fill in with coir. Top layer about 1/4"
--------------------
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mystictherapy
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: SirPsycho]
#28380558 - 06/30/23 07:17 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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is crumbling the cakes up and colonizing that way not advised?
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Glomus
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Could you sterilize or pasteurize used substrate and re use it or cut your substrate with it? Like do mushrooms decompose themselves? Lol
or "inoculate' new sub with spent sub that performed well. Might have a good blend of bacteria?
Edited by Glomus (06/30/23 07:48 PM)
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SirPsycho
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Quote:
mystictherapy said: is crumbling the cakes up and colonizing that way not advised?
No, it is not
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mystictherapy
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Re: Wood and cubensis [Re: Glomus]
#28380723 - 06/30/23 09:08 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I second this question, could you potentially do a G2G but with Pf-tek?
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 7,340
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 15 hours, 46 minutes
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No
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Ask about free prints: Ps tampanesis, subtropicalis, cubensis(ESS) and Pan cyanescens
Balance in life is like running on ice.
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"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
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