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Onlinenektar61S
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Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? * 5
    #28376288 - 06/27/23 09:12 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I hear this a lot, but don't see evidence of it. I think it might be something that used to be said and is parroted but I've never seen it. I've seen the same pinning whether I encourage or discourage evaporation.

Using advanced search to find posts older than 15 years old and less than 25 years old, with the words
evaporation
trigger
pin


You get posts talking about PF tek and mentioning the need to FAN a grow, and some talking about using pumps to pump air into your "fruiting chamber" to force evaporation.

Fanning, pumps, and fruiting chambers are discredited tek that no great growers use now.

The oldest mention on here of pinning being triggered by evaporation (from 21 years and 4 months ago) is on a thread someone quoting Paul Stamets, a guy who is known to make shit up and state it as fact. He still recommends using gypsum.
thread:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/537665#537665
post (about Azures)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/388889#388889

People say "well, you get shrooms in the field after it rains and then doesn't for a day, so there is evaporation" but

--Shrooms grow more in fields around grass, which can trap moisture in the air and prevent evaporation

--A field grow is not a tub grow. If you want a field grow at home, throw unpasteurized cow shit in a tub, sprinkle spores, drown in water, then leave the lid off, in the sun.

--Some of the evaporation in a field is coming from puddles, not from the ground, and once the air is saturated with moisture, it can't take in more water until the RH lowers.

I think "evaporation triggers pinning" might be an old thing that people say with no observation to back it up, just something people parrot. It might be bullshit.

We really should be on the lookout for non-truths propagated in shrooms.

No experienced grower is probably going to say "fan your grow"

But some experienced growers will say "You need separate fruiting conditions, different from growing conditions" which is bullshit with cubes.

It's something that's been parroted for a long time. You can have a good grow DESPITE it, but it's not needed.

Same thing as how a handful of TCs and great growers here insist on using gypsum. They grow good shrooms despite it, but it's not needed. But they think it's needed because they've always used it.

We can say from observation "If you don't PC your grain, you'll probably get contam", and "agar is useful to clean up contam."

But I can't say from observation that "evaporation is a trigger for pinning" in home grows.

I also think that saying it without being able to back it up looks like someone trying to be smart without being able to back it up.

Edited by nektar61 (06/27/23 02:49 PM)

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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #28376292 - 06/27/23 09:19 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

:threadmonitor:


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OfflineLand TroutM
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 2
    #28376293 - 06/27/23 09:19 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Great question, and something I’ve thought about also. I can’t say I’ve heard it emphasized by too many recently but was one of the things I constantly read when I was first learning(both cultivation and how to search on here).
I haven’t heard it disproven.

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OfflineSmellyhobbitM
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Land Trout] * 2
    #28376297 - 06/27/23 09:25 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

So how would we run tests? Get an established clone and run tubs side by side, sealed and with FAE? We know FAE is a must because cubes breathe, but otherwise how do we mitigate evaporation to discern whether or not it’s a pinning trigger?

One thing to think about is that, whether or not it really is or isn’t a pinning trigger, evaporation is going to happen with FAE isn’t it?

Maybe a Martha tent would be a good tool. Quick someone with a large scale commercial grow should drop everything and switch to cubes for a day haha

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Onlinenektar61S
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Land Trout]
    #28376300 - 06/27/23 09:27 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Land Trout said:
Great question, and something I’ve thought about also. I can’t say I’ve heard it emphasized by too many recently but was one of the things I constantly read when I was first learning(both cultivation and how to search on here).
I haven’t heard it disproven.




Was part of what you were reading books that were published more than ten years ago?

If it was reading on here, do you keep your tek searches to the last 5 or 6 years? A lot of things older than that are from the dark ages of shroom growing and not done anymore. Like coffee and gypsum.

Did you hear people recommending coffee and gypsum in non-PF Tek grows?

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OfflineLand TroutM
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #28376330 - 06/27/23 09:47 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Pretty much, what I meant by learning was learning how to search on here and learning these fungi are simple enough that more hands off approaches produced better.
The organism is the best teacher🤓

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Onlinenektar61S
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 3
    #28376334 - 06/27/23 09:52 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
So how would we run tests? ...



We don't.

Science doesn't have to prove a negative.

I think we stop saying "evaporation is a trigger for pinning" the same way we don't say "adding coffee grinds and gypsum to substrate is helpful." Or "using a Martha is the best way to grow shrooms." 

Then if anyone claims that "evaporation is a trigger for pinning" IS true, the burden of proof is on THEM to prove it.

Otherwise they're just someone parroting something they can't prove or even explain, just to try to sound smart....Just to have something to say and be able to join a conversation.

I think Marthas already disprove it. If you keep air at full RH, shrooms still grow (so does mold and bacteria, but shrooms do too.) And on the other end of the scale, I've seen photos here of shrooms that grew in an un-watered tub forgotten with no lid on it.

Plins grow in sealed agar plates. There isn't always evaporation in a sealed plate. There is if you see condensation, but you see plins even without condensation.

We can prove other gems around here. It's easy to prove that if you don't PC your grain, you'll get contam. It's easy to prove that agar is useful for transferring away from contam.

Running reliable scientific tests to test the "evaporation is a trigger for pinning" thesis would be difficult. How do you provide evaporation in one tub, and take it away in another, while keeping the FAE, oxygen, and carbon dioxide the same. Also keeping the temp the same. Or at least accounting for it. Evaporation lowers the temp of the thing it's evaporating away from.

It probably would require those outdated fish tank air pumps people used to fan their PF Tek grows and "shotgun fruiting chambers" here during the George W. Bush presidency.

Edited by nektar61 (06/27/23 10:45 AM)

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OfflineTri
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 2
    #28376377 - 06/27/23 10:30 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

"does evaporation trigger pinning in Coprophilous pan-tropical species of fungi, such as Psilocybe Cubensis?"


"There is no evidence to suggest that evaporation triggers pinning in Coprophilous pan-tropical species of fungi, such as Psilocybe Cubensis. Pinning, which refers to the formation of mushroom fruiting bodies, is a complex process influenced by various factors such as temperature, humidity, and nutrient availability. While evaporation can affect humidity levels, it is not the sole determinant of pinning. Research on the pinning process in fungi has primarily focused on the role of environmental factors and genetic regulation. Therefore, it is important to consider multiple factors when studying the pinning behavior of fungi."

"what are the most crucial known pinning triggers for Coprophilous pan-tropical species of fungi, such as Psilocybe Cubensis?"


"The most crucial known pinning triggers for Coprophilous pan-tropical species of fungi, such as Psilocybe Cubensis, are not explicitly mentioned in the provided references. However, pinning in fungi is generally influenced by various factors such as temperature, humidity, nutrient availability, and genetic regulation (Lee et al., 2015). Environmental factors, including temperature and humidity, play a significant role in triggering the pinning process (Zhu et al., 2008). Additionally, the presence of specific associations with other fungi, such as saprotrophic non-Rhizoctonia fungi, can also impact pinning behavior (Lee et al., 2015). It is important to note that pinning triggers may vary among different species and environmental conditions. Further research is needed to specifically identify the pinning triggers for Coprophilous pan-tropical species of fungi."

A convo with scite.ai for what its worth.

from my perspective it boils down to pinning needs humidity, rain/evaporation cause humidity. so while it might not be accurate to say pinning needs evaporation, transitive property :shrug:


--------------------
𝕴𝖋 𝕴 𝖍𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝖘𝖊𝖊𝖓 𝖋𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖎𝖘 𝖇𝖞 𝖘𝖙𝖆𝖓𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖚𝖕𝖔𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖘𝖍𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉𝖊𝖗𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝕲𝖎𝖆𝖓𝖙𝖘

Edited by Tri (06/27/23 10:31 AM)

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Onlinenektar61S
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tri] * 2
    #28376388 - 06/27/23 10:39 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tri-Polar said:
from my perspective it boils down to pinning needs humidity, rain/evaporation cause humidity. so while it might not be accurate to say pinning needs evaporation, transitive property :shrug:



I was thinking something along these lines.

Also:
"rain/evaporation cause humidity"
is true. But
"humidity/evaporation causes rain"
is also true.

It's a viscous cycle. Shrooms within shrooms.

Last year one time when I was tripping I had a long drawn-out flash of "someday I will die but it's OK because I was, am, and will be part of the carbon cycle."

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OfflineTri
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 2
    #28376391 - 06/27/23 10:41 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Lmao blessings be to the cycles of life :rofl:


--------------------
𝕴𝖋 𝕴 𝖍𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝖘𝖊𝖊𝖓 𝖋𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖎𝖘 𝖇𝖞 𝖘𝖙𝖆𝖓𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖚𝖕𝖔𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖘𝖍𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉𝖊𝖗𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝕲𝖎𝖆𝖓𝖙𝖘

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Onlinenektar61S
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tri]
    #28376401 - 06/27/23 10:48 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tri-Polar said:
Lmao blessings be to the cycles of life :rofl:




Some form of this shit just has to be happening somewhere else.

I think people who see UFOs usually want to, and should lay off the heroic doses.

But the Universe is a vast fucking place. There has to be something growing with a blessed ammonia cycle and dual suns within a thousand light years or so.

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OfflineTri
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61]
    #28376409 - 06/27/23 10:54 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
Quote:

Tri-Polar said:
Lmao blessings be to the cycles of life :rofl:




Some form of this shit just has to be happening somewhere else.

I think people who see UFOs usually want to, and should lay off the heroic doses.

But the Universe is a vast fucking place. There has to be something growing with a blessed ammonia cycle within a thousand light years or so.




I'll tell you what and you can choose to believe me or not :biggrin:

:ancientaliens:


--------------------
𝕴𝖋 𝕴 𝖍𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝖘𝖊𝖊𝖓 𝖋𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖎𝖘 𝖇𝖞 𝖘𝖙𝖆𝖓𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖚𝖕𝖔𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖘𝖍𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉𝖊𝖗𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝕲𝖎𝖆𝖓𝖙𝖘

Edited by Tri (06/27/23 11:17 AM)

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Onlinenektar61S
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tri] * 1
    #28376414 - 06/27/23 10:59 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tri-Polar said:
he gave my dad a vhs, I woke up at night walked out of my room, and saw like 2 minutes of video of like CCTV ufo's flying out of the ocean and shit, that haunted me for the next decade




I saw that same movie in a theater, triple feature with the Bigfoot movie and the Atlantis movie, all from the same "documentary" film company.

OK, let's un-hijack this thread please. Unless you have proof that ancient aliens figured out how to cause pinning without evaporation or humidity.

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OfflineTri
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61]
    #28376446 - 06/27/23 11:23 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
OK, let's un-hijack this thread please




Heard,
Seems like you can't really seperate evaporation from humidity, so what is the goal you're working towards?  To change the language to "humidity causes pinning" rather than "evaporation causes pinning"?


--------------------
𝕴𝖋 𝕴 𝖍𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝖘𝖊𝖊𝖓 𝖋𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖎𝖘 𝖇𝖞 𝖘𝖙𝖆𝖓𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖚𝖕𝖔𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖘𝖍𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉𝖊𝖗𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝕲𝖎𝖆𝖓𝖙𝖘

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28376455 - 06/27/23 11:30 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

That is how I have also understood it Hobbit.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323851155_Influences_of_environmental_factors_on_fruiting_body_induction_development_and_maturation_in_mushroom-forming_fungi


“Mushroom-forming fungi (restricted to basidiomycetous fungi in this review) differentiate by sensing several environmental factors for fruiting body formation. For fruiting body induction, nutrient, temperature and light conditions are critical environmental factors. Higher nitrogen and carbon sources in the media will suppress fruiting body induction in many mushroom-forming fungi, with induction being triggered by lower nitrogen and carbon concentrations. Low temperature or temperature downshift is another critical influencing factor for fruiting body induction in many cultivated mushrooms, such as Flammulina velutipes, Lentinula edodes, and Volvariella volvacea. Fungal response toward starvation and cold involves the production of sexual spores as the next generation. Species like F. velutipes and Coprinopsis cinerea can form fruiting bodies in the dark; however, light accelerates fruiting body induction in some mushroom-forming fungi. Remarkably, fruiting bodies formed in the dark have tiny or no pileus on heads (called dark stipe, pinhead fruiting body, or etiolated stipe). Light is essential for pileus differentiation in many, but not all mushroom species; one exception is Agaricus bisporus. Mushrooms have positive phototropism and negative gravitropism for effective dispersal of spores. Carbon dioxide concentrations also affect fruiting body development; pileus differentiation is suppressed at a high concentration of carbon dioxide. Thus, the pileus differentiation system of mushrooms may allow the most effective diffusion of spores. Full expansion of the pileus is followed by pileus autolysis or senescence. In C. cinerea, pileus autolysis occurs during spore diffusion. Fruiting body senescence, browning of gill, and softening occur after harvesting in several mushroom species. Fruiting body induction, development, and maturation in mushroom-forming fungi are discussed in this review.”

I think maybe it is less about evaporation and more about lowering the CO2 levels with FAE.  And as you said that evaporation naturally comes with it

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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tri] * 3
    #28376460 - 06/27/23 11:33 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I believe that evaporation is an essential part of the pinning process because it shows that a proper FAE cycle is being kept.
It's not essential to pinning itself but essential to bring forward the environment required for pinning and fruiting.
We set up a water tub expecting that the water within the tub will evaporate, hopefully slowly, and create a humid environment for our cakes.
We expect that the coir we use, if properly hydrated, not only provides enough water for the fungus but also evaporates as the fungus grows/fruits to help maintain fruiting conditions.
I'm not a "fanboy" and I don't ever fan my tubs, I allow FAE and evaporation to create the conditions that will favor my cubes.

EDIT: Fixed spelling mistake.


--------------------
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Silence: Giving you room to listen / Stillness: Giving you room to feel / Spaciousness: Just giving you room

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Edited by mushhead (06/27/23 11:49 AM)

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Onlinenektar61S
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tri] * 1
    #28376487 - 06/27/23 11:49 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tri-Polar said:
what is the goal you're working towards?  To change the language to "humidity causes pinning" rather than "evaporation causes pinning"?




No. My goal is to encourage people to stop saying things to noobs that don't help and might be wrong. (and to encourage noobs to stop saying this too).

Even if it is right, most of the time people say it it doesn't add anything to the conversation.

It is 100% NOT something you need to know to grow shrooms.

Most of the time I see it said, it serves the same or less important place in conversation than saying any of these:

"Money can't buy happiness."

"Some things never change."

"It's the journey not the destination that matters."

"Everything happens for a reason."

If it is true, I'd like someone who says it to prove it. Almost every other part of current shroom tek can be proven as useful and correct.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 2
    #28376490 - 06/27/23 11:54 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Well honestly I say we do away with the whole evaporation causes pinning because that is simply not true.
Evaporation is a cog within the machine that we call fruiting.
Pinning is to the end of that process where as before any pinning can happen the proper environmental conditions need to be met.
Ergo through evaporation, we create our micro-climate, and this induces fruiting because the conditions favor it.
Sure the mushroom will still give fruits if these conditions are not optimal, such as giving off fruits while the container is open without holding RH.


--------------------
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: mushhead] * 1
    #28376492 - 06/27/23 11:56 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

So creating a micro climate that also includes and provides evaporation causes pinning?


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Screwup] * 1
    #28376495 - 06/27/23 12:02 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Screwup said:
So creating a micro climate that also includes and provides evaporation causes pinning?



:whathesaid:
If the dominoes aren't in place correctly, they wont fall as you design.


--------------------
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Silence: Giving you room to listen / Stillness: Giving you room to feel / Spaciousness: Just giving you room

IRC: ##mycology on Libera.chat come hang!

Edited by mushhead (06/27/23 12:15 PM)

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Onlinenektar61S
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: mushhead]
    #28376529 - 06/27/23 12:36 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mushhead said:
...I say we do away with the whole evaporation causes pinning because that is simply not true.
Evaporation is a cog within the machine that we call fruiting...



Closer.
---
Quote:

Tri-Polar said:
...what is the goal you're working towards?  To change the language to "humidity causes pinning" rather than "evaporation causes pinning"?



Even closer.

That and the goal of when someone says "evaporation causes pinning" for people to say "prove it" (if one is feeling feisty), or "citation needed" (if one is feeling charitable.)

haha

I was going to link this thread on Reddit, but then we'd have people arguing "evaporation causes pinning and that's why you have to fan your grows every 4 hours in your fruiting chamber"

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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 3
    #28376557 - 06/27/23 01:02 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Yeah tbh we don't want the reddit crowd popping in here to spread their cancer.
I'm sitting here trying to think of a better way of explaining this without getting all technical.
Evaporation is just a variable which assists us in keeping conditions right.
It's not essential - but if you have your tubs set up and dialed in than you have optimal conditions.
Optimal conditions being a proper FAE cycle, causing evaporation, which causes RH to be held.


--------------------
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Silence: Giving you room to listen / Stillness: Giving you room to feel / Spaciousness: Just giving you room

IRC: ##mycology on Libera.chat come hang!

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 3
    #28376559 - 06/27/23 01:04 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Im curious in what ways you have encouraged and discouraged evaporation


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: milkboy] * 1
    #28376570 - 06/27/23 01:25 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Without any scientific backing or data I completely agree that evaporation does nothing to influence pinning. I'm a newer cultivator but I'm a mechanical engineer for building systems. That being said I feel I have a level head and great understanding of common sense.

I don't think evaporation has anything to do with it. I think the benefit of misting is relative to the humidity levels and some of that water is absorbed into myc/sub.


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: ShroomNugget]
    #28376581 - 06/27/23 01:42 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomNugget said:
Without any scientific backing or data I completely agree that evaporation does nothing to influence pinning. I'm a newer cultivator but I'm a mechanical engineer for building systems. That being said I feel I have a level head and great understanding of common sense.

I don't think evaporation has anything to do with it. I think the benefit of misting is relative to the humidity levels and some of that water is absorbed into myc/sub.




So another vote for "humidity triggers pinning."

Agreed.

Anyone here grow shrooms in desert environments? Ever leave the lid off? Do they grow well if the substrate is watered? There would be evaporation but not humidity.

Edited by nektar61 (06/27/23 01:52 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: milkboy]
    #28376582 - 06/27/23 01:49 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

milkboy said:
Im curious in what ways you have encouraged and discouraged evaporation



Haven't done it as a study, but have done all variations of heavy misting, light misting, no misting; lid on all the time, lid off every day for 8 hours, fanning (haha, early on), using an electric fan to dry an overly wet grow, growing in spring when air is high humidity, growing when hot late summer when air is low humidity, etc.

None of them stands out as having had strikingly different pin or shrooms growth. Most produce canopies or near canopies. Clean agar on clean grain produces clean spawn, which produces good shrooms if the genetics are good.

I will say that the stress on "pinning" seems weird in "evaporation triggers pinning."

I'm here to grow shrooms, not pins. I've seen grows with more pins produce less fruits, and / or less weight of fruits, than one that showed fewer pins early on.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 2
    #28376586 - 06/27/23 01:53 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
So another vote for "humidity triggers pinning."

Agreed.





Now that I can get behind. Better way to put it, humidity triggers pinning.
:cheers:
I'll admit I had such a hard time with explaining that because evaporation leads to high humidity and I use that bit of knowledge all the time for my tubs, I add a bit of extra water, that's fine, it'll evaporate and cause humidity.
Humidity in turn causes fruiting because those are the conditions the fungus wants.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: mushhead] * 1
    #28376589 - 06/27/23 01:54 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

so "evaporation = pinning" actually means "humidity and fae = shrooms" ?


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: altford78]
    #28376594 - 06/27/23 01:56 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

altford78 said:
so "evaporation = pinning" actually means "humidity and fae = shrooms" ?




YES!

I'm looking forward to seeing someone say "Evaporation triggers pinning" again.  Especially if they're a noob but even more especially if they're experienced.

Funny, the top "Similar Thread" I'm seeing below is a 20 year old thread:
Does higher CO2 levels trigger pinning? (spoiler, no it doesn't, that's the long-debunked "separate fruiting conditions" bullshit.)

First post on the thread says
Quote:

i read on mycotopia that too much air exchange slows down pinning, and you should just fan 1x untill pins, then fan 3x when fruiting?

everyone here is recommending fanning.. im confused




That thread has people recommending more Co2 for pinning, temperature drops for pinning, fanning for pinning. Also has RR who has written books on this, prodouced a popular video series on growing shrooms, and is an OG / TC recommending separate fruiting conditions.

Separate fruiting conditions are not needed, and a lot of TCs and other great growers here don't do it now and produce killer canopies.

Old tek is not always good tek in shrooms.

Edited by nektar61 (06/27/23 02:05 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61]
    #28376617 - 06/27/23 02:10 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Can you grow shrooms without evaporation?


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #28376622 - 06/27/23 02:12 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
Old tek is not always good tek in shrooms.




Isn’t talking about humidity “old tek”? I thought most people care more about surface conditions vs the rh in their tub these days?

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: aPurpleCray0n] * 2
    #28376628 - 06/27/23 02:20 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

So I need 95% humidity again?


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Screwup] * 1
    #28376640 - 06/27/23 02:38 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Nah nobody said anything about precise humidity levels. At the basic level Humidity is the measure of how much moisture is in the air. Higher humidity = more moisture in air = more moisture available for absorption thru sub/myc/fruits.

I've read that myc and fruits can absorb moisture from the air so it only makes sense. That being said, I've only cultivated over the past 3 months but I've become quite successful IMO. I currently run shoeboxes in a homemade martha and I keep the humidity at 79-81%. I also lightly mist twice a day.

Edit: I wish we could go thru the entire forum and remove all the old, outdated, nasty info in all cases like this!


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Edited by ShroomNugget (06/27/23 02:41 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: ShroomNugget]
    #28376649 - 06/27/23 02:54 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomNugget said:
I wish we could go thru the entire forum and remove all the old, outdated, nasty info in all cases like this!



I wished we could do that too. But removing it is removing history. (For instance: If it's completely gone, we can't quote 21 year old threads showing that people saying "evaporation triggers pinning" were originally justifying fanning their grows multiple times a day.)

So last I year asked Ythan, the founder of Shroomery, to add something at the top of threads older then 5 years old.

He did. That's why they all say
"Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead."
Example.

Then he manually removed it from some threads that are that old but very active every day, like "Agar Envy" and "Post Your Cultivation Picture of The Day"

Edited by nektar61 (06/27/23 03:00 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: aPurpleCray0n]
    #28376650 - 06/27/23 02:55 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

aPurpleCray0n said:
Quote:

nektar61 said:
Old tek is not always good tek in shrooms.




Isn’t talking about humidity “old tek”? I thought most people care more about surface conditions vs the rh in their tub these days?




See i understand drawing a line between evaporation and humidity but at the same time I'm maybe missing the point..

We reasonably know that humidity/micro-climate encourages pinning (imo more pins = better, so is a thing I want), and we only have varied means of evaporation to create that humidity, we can have properly hydrated substrate and dialed in FAE(evaporation from substrate), we can lightly mist(evaporation from surface beads), or we can run a humidifier (evaporation from reservoir)

Is it just the point of clarifying that the literal act of evaporation isn't specifically a pinning trigger, that rather its the water + FAE --> evaporation --> RH thats important?


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Edited by Tri (06/27/23 02:56 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tri]
    #28376657 - 06/27/23 03:05 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tri-Polar said:
Is it just the point of clarifying that the literal act of evaporation isn't specifically a pinning trigger, that rather its the water + FAE --> evaporation --> RH thats important?




Both, but more the latter.

Also it's useful to call out old bullshit that gets repeated.

People call out fanning (and they should), but if you go look at those 21 year old first posts about "evaporation triggers pinning" several of them were justifying fanning by saying that.
--
I think a Martha is proof, or at least evidence, that you get pins with humidity but no evaporation. You're pumping in mist several times a day, keeping the inside at max RH, and the excess water pools at the bottom, right? (I've never done one, it's old dumb tek and increases chance of contam. But it's said to grow lots of shrooms which means lots of pins.)

Also, Pinning isn't really the goal. Shrooms are the goal. It's better to have 8 chonker shrooms filling a shoebox than 100 tiny shrooms. At least for harvesting and probably for potency too.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tri]
    #28376658 - 06/27/23 03:05 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Why is the emphasis being placed on evaporation?

From my understanding the pinning trigger is not loss of moisture from the substrate, but it is the removal of carbon dioxide with fresh air. I’ve never heard that evaporation causes pinning. Only that the introduction of fresh air initiates the fruiting process in mycelium. That doesn’t mean it’s the only important factor for healthy pins.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo]
    #28376661 - 06/27/23 03:09 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chamo said:
Why is the emphasis being placed on evaporation?

From my understanding the pinning trigger is not loss of moisture from the substrate, but it is the removal of carbon dioxide with fresh air. I’ve never heard that evaporation causes pinning. Only that the introduction of fresh air initiates the fruiting process in mycelium. That doesn’t mean it’s the only important factor for healthy pins.



Why does pf tek pin then


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Screwup] * 1
    #28376662 - 06/27/23 03:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Screwup said:
Why does pf tek pin then




Explained in relative terms (about shrooms, not specifically PF Tek) above by several people, but:
humidity, FAE, light, genetics, a shroom needing to fruit and release spores.

Humidity can accompany evaporation, but doesn't require evaporation. See my post about Marthas above.

See my post above about shrooms, not pins, being the goal.

Most of the original very old posts about evaporation triggering pinning are referring to PF Tek, because that was the main tek back then. There's a lot of talk in those posts about fanning grows to increase this needed evaporation too.

EDIT: oh, Screwup, you're replying to someone whose posts I can't see. haha.

Screwup I had you on ignore for a while, after you were horrible to someone many months ago, but I un-ingnored you, because you truly are a reformed troll.

Edited by nektar61 (06/27/23 03:17 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Screwup] * 1
    #28376664 - 06/27/23 03:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

It is one pinning trigger. Not the only one. Light and full colonization could explain that. Even a contam can cause early pinning.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 2
    #28376667 - 06/27/23 03:13 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I'm in the middle I guess on this one. In terms of saying that evaporation is a major trigger,
I say it and yes it is parroted and somewhat lazy. To me it's much more that any evaporation
is indicative of more general conditions which are conducive to pinning. So it's a helpful
symptom perhaps, rather than a cause. I'm down with Mushhead on this:

Quote:

I believe that evaporation is an essential part of the pinning process because it shows
that a proper FAE cycle is being kept.




Great post by the way. It's good to see that things are still being questioned.
It may be that someone comes along and provides more solid evidence that
evaporation by itself is the major pinning trigger, but I have to admit that you're
right in that I haven't seen much that supports this. I do think it's a kind of shorthand,
used instead of mentioning all of the general conditions that are conducive to pinning.


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 3
    #28376672 - 06/27/23 03:19 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Omg you were my #8 ignorer? If you’ll look at my tag it’s RE RE formed meaning I’m back on my bullshit homie


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: johnukguy]
    #28376675 - 06/27/23 03:22 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

johnukguy said:
Great post by the way. It's good to see that things are still being questioned...




Thank you.

Quote:

johnukguy said:
I'm in the middle I guess on this one. In terms of saying that evaporation is a major trigger,
I say it and yes...



What about Martha tents? They grow shrooms and have humidity but no evaporation.

Also, why the emphasis on pins in this bit of shroom lore? We're growing shrooms not pins. See my comment above about 8 chonkers vs 100 tiny shrooms.

Also, plins can grow in sealed plates with no condensation, indicating no evaporation.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Screwup] * 3
    #28376682 - 06/27/23 03:28 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Screwup said:
Omg you were my #8 ignorer? If you’ll look at my tag it’s RE RE formed meaning I’m back on my bullshit homie



You youngsters and your REREs. I don't even know anymore.

You're making me laugh more than you're making me roll my eyes these days, so, un-ignored. Not sure when but in the past few weeks I think.

Oh, to continue answering your PF Tek question (and this applies to any cube tek):

Temp is a big trigger in pinning. Shrooms will pin at 60 degrees F, but much slower than at 70 F. I've heard this continues up to 84F or so, but I've always got lots of contam when fruiting at over 75 F.

70 is my jam, and I keep it there with a heater, fan, and thermostat, but in summer it can get over that.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 3
    #28376705 - 06/27/23 03:46 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
Humidity can accompany evaporation, but doesn't require evaporation. See my post about Marthas above.

See my post above about shrooms, not pins, being the goal.





I think my autism is getting in the way on this one lmao

But in a Martha the humidity is caused by evaporation, thats all a humidifier does, its an "evaporate water" machine. I think the only difference is where the evaporation is taking place (substrate surface vs reservoir), but even then there could be an argument made that all a Martha does is slow the drying out of the substrate that would be allowed by all the extra FAE.

Also I get your pin point, but every shroom starts as a pin, so wether its 5 or 50 I reckon you want to encourage the conditions that lead to pinning/fruiting to at least some degree no? I feel like a lot more noobs would be way happier if just a few pins equated to the same overall weight/potency as a forest of pins. The first pic in my signature was a forest of pins and they turned into handsome mushies for me.

Quote:

nektar61 said:
Also, plins can grow in sealed plates with no condensation, indicating no evaporation.




Just like a terrarium there is moisture inside plates (especially poured hot) that will most definitely go through its own little water cycle with the temp swings. Even with no condensation, the moisture off the agar is going through that cycle, unless your plates are kept at a steady temp I reckon


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Edited by Tri (06/27/23 03:53 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tri]
    #28376714 - 06/27/23 03:56 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Don’t forget that full colonization of the substrate/lack of nutrients can also cause pinning on a plate

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo]
    #28376717 - 06/27/23 03:59 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

There is no substrate on a plate.


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: johnukguy]
    #28376718 - 06/27/23 04:00 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Hence why I said “lack of nutrients” for anyone that wants to play semantics

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 3
    #28376724 - 06/27/23 04:07 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
What about Martha tents? They grow shrooms and have humidity but no evaporation. 



This statement is simply untrue, evaporation happens until partial pressure is equal to vapor pressure at 100% humidity

There is still evaporation happening in a Martha tent with supplemented humidity, unless they’re holding 100%. I honestly haven’t looked toooo hard into Martha’s so maybe you can point me to an example where that has worked for someone but from what I have looked at I recall people struggling to get good pinsets in overly humidified tents

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 4
    #28376727 - 06/27/23 04:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Water doesnt evaporate in marthas is an invalid statement.

I dont see how a plin plate is relevant to getting good results growing mushrooms. With that logic we should tell people to seal up their tubs... oh wait...

Edit. Goddamn it purple crayon


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: aPurpleCray0n] * 3
    #28376728 - 06/27/23 04:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

So what I’m getting from this is everything causes or can cause pinning?


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: milkboy] * 1
    #28376732 - 06/27/23 04:15 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

milkboy said:
Goddamn it purple crayon



Hahaha great minds… 😎

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: johnukguy] * 1
    #28376733 - 06/27/23 04:17 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

johnukguy said:
There is no substrate on a plate.



agar is a substrate

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Screwup] * 2
    #28376737 - 06/27/23 04:22 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I think the statement of "evaporation is a trigger for pinning" is not exactly a scientific claim, but a practical claim. While mycology itself is a branch of science, for all intents and purposes, many hobbie mycologists arent digging into the nitty gritty, they're just trying to successfully grow mushrooms, and grow them well. Ofc theres nothing wrong with getting into the nitty gritty science behind it, its important and what helps us make strides into better ways to grow.

The statement evaporation is a pinning trigger is a visual indicator of what we are chasing as cultivators. We can visualize what evaporation off mycelium might look like (water beads drying up and water not pooling). While it may or may not be the case that humidity is a more accurate way to describe what causes pinning, Im not sure how good that is as practical advice. Its not exactly visual, and i think it starts to get people into bad habits such as relying on hygrometers to measure humidity, and chasing a number rather than a grow condition.

I like this conversation, i think its an important one, but i also think the advice of "evaporation is a pinning trigger" works, even if its not exactly correct.

Edited by Pandaskis (06/27/23 04:23 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Pandaskis] * 2
    #28376754 - 06/27/23 04:37 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Good post. Like saying water makes plants grow, sometimes an oversimplification makes things simpler.
One problem I see with saying evaporation is a pinning trigger is that it can be taken as let the water evaporate off the surface by fanning or…. And then misting so that evaporation can continue. Seems like a lot of noobs get in to that loop hole.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Land Trout] * 1
    #28376760 - 06/27/23 04:41 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Land Trout said:
Good post. Like saying water makes plants grow, sometimes an oversimplification makes things simpler.
One problem I see with saying evaporation is a pinning trigger is that it can be taken as let the water evaporate off the surface by fanning or…. And then misting so that evaporation can continue. Seems like a lot of noobs get in to that loop hole.




Maybe if we said slight and gradual evaporation, it might not be technically true, but once again practical pseudoscience 😂

Edited by Pandaskis (06/27/23 04:42 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Pandaskis]
    #28376772 - 06/27/23 04:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Amazing no one’s come in fighting yet. Three pages questioning old advice, this need some kind of award.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Land Trout]
    #28376774 - 06/27/23 04:52 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Nothing is in a vacuum. It is like a fruit tree. Certain environmental factors stimulate the tree to stop focusing energy on producing leaves and more on producing fruits. It doesn’t mean that everything else goes out of the window.

Aren’t we talking about real-world stimulation to change the growth pattern from vegetative to fruiting? Something has to change for that transition to happen.

When mycelium is colonizing a substrate in a sealed tub, the humidity is very high. When it’s introduced into fruiting conditions it is generally kept at a high level. So with no real change, I don’t see how that could trigger the mycelium to change its growth behavior.

My understanding was that FAE, not evaporation, was a contributing factor to changing the mycelium to fruiting growth. That when co2 levels begin to fall, this change from high concentration to low concentration stimulates the beginning of pin formation (along with other contributing factors)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28376781 - 06/27/23 04:57 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I guess the question is whether the FAE is there to only lower the concentration of CO2, or if its there to evaporate moisture off the mycelium, or if its a combination of both.

Im too noob to actually answer the questions, but im curious enough to ask them :P

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Pandaskis]
    #28376787 - 06/27/23 05:02 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Maybe I misunderstand what fanning is to some people here. It is not as if I’m standing over the tub straddling it while waving my arms trying to take flight.

Sometimes I throw a co2 meter in a tub. And it rises quickly. And whenever I pass by or when I feel like it, I just give it a wave, until the co2 drops. I never heard of evaporation as a pinning trigger until this post. When I fan I just do it to quickly replace the stale are and move on, not to “mist and dry it out”.

That was because my understanding is that the change in co2 concentration was the major stimulating event.

This was a good post to read to understand more why people jumped my ass originally. I see more of what the misunderstanding was.

Edited by Chamo (06/27/23 05:04 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Pandaskis]
    #28376788 - 06/27/23 05:04 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pandaskis said:
I guess the question is whether the FAE is there to only lower the concentration of CO2, or if its there to evaporate moisture off the mycelium, or if its a combination of both.

Im too noob to actually answer the questions, but im curious enough to ask them :P



But your sigline photos show that you're doing it right.

That's another reason I think it's a silly statement. It has very little to do with growing good shrooms, if you follow current teks.

I'm not saying "No one should question how this works" but I've never seen anyone say it in a way that added useful info to a discussion that wasn't there before they said it. It's usually more like saying "well, that's how it goes."

And it looks like it stemmed out of an excuse for fanning shrooms twice daily during the Bush administration. Someone said it, someone parroted it, and people kept parroting it.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #28376802 - 06/27/23 05:18 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 3
    #28376813 - 06/27/23 05:32 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. Now, y'all can't tell anyone but the real secret is surface conditions.

Also, can someone define and quantify evaporation please?


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 1
    #28376815 - 06/27/23 05:33 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
can someone define and quantify evaporation please?



:yields: :yields: :yields: :yields:
He knows and will tell you that's why you have to fan, to increase evaporation to increase pins, because you need as many pins as possible. Quantity over quality.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61]
    #28376821 - 06/27/23 05:39 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Fanning can be used to periodically replace stale air in a tub, lowering co2 levels. Which can be quantified…

It does seem pointless to fan if your intended purpose is to cause evaporation…

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 3
    #28376823 - 06/27/23 05:41 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. Now, y'all can't tell anyone but the real secret is surface conditions.




I thought it was bacteria





Also, can someone define and quantify evaporation please?



Wait are we playing that game again?


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28376825 - 06/27/23 05:43 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
the real secret is surface conditions.



Kidding aside, my grows got better when I started adding a quarter inch of fine verm on the top, and misting it a little when I make up a shoebox.

Also, double liners help, but they don't have to block light, unlike what people said here a long time ago.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: milkboy] * 1
    #28376832 - 06/27/23 05:45 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chamo said:
Fanning can be used to periodically replace stale air in a tub



Explain GE in filtered spawn containers then? Isn't the whole point the exchange of gasses... CO2 and O2?
Quote:

milkboy said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. Now, y'all can't tell anyone but the real secret is surface conditions.




I thought it was bacteria





Also, can someone define and quantify evaporation please?



Wait are we playing that game again?</font>



Yes, cause the problem is no one is talking about the same thing.

The statement we're discussing is pretty much meaningless.


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 3
    #28376843 - 06/27/23 05:51 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. Now, y'all can't tell anyone but the real secret is surface conditions.

Also, can someone define and quantify evaporation please?




*cough*
Quote:

aPurpleCray0n said:
I thought most people care more about surface conditions vs the rh in their tub these days?




Out of curiosity.. can someone define and quantify surface conditions? Not just what we physically see “tiny droplets on the surface” but what “condition” is it that were actually creating that’s beneficial to pinning

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28376845 - 06/27/23 05:52 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Chamo said:
Fanning can be used to periodically replace stale air in a tub



Explain GE in filtered spawn containers then? Isn't the whole point the exchange of gasses... CO2 and O2?
Quote:



We are talking about during colonization?

Obviously the co2 levels are going to be far greater in a closed, colonizing spawn container, even with sufficient GE. The point is that the concentrations of co2 changing stimulate different growth. So going from a higher concentration of co2 while colonizing and lowering it drastically with FAE, theoretically stimulates fruiting.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28376855 - 06/27/23 05:58 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

What about when you S2B? Spawn is all broken up and spread out and it has to recolonize everything + several times the original amount all over again. Then goes in to fruiting, all with the same level of GE/co2

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: aPurpleCray0n] * 2
    #28376857 - 06/27/23 05:59 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chamo said:

Obviously the co2 levels are going to be far greater in a closed, colonizing spawn container, even with sufficient GE. The point is that the concentrations of co2 changing stimulate different growth. So going from a higher concentration of co2 while colonizing and lowering it drastically with FAE, theoretically stimulates fruiting.



But even in those containers there's exchange of gasses through some mechanism right? You really think a tub lid is anywhere near as effective?

How long you think before you'd suffocate in a tub? Lid latched?

Quote:

aPurpleCray0n said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. Now, y'all can't tell anyone but the real secret is surface conditions.

Also, can someone define and quantify evaporation please?




*cough*
Quote:

aPurpleCray0n said:
I thought most people care more about surface conditions vs the rh in their tub these days?




Out of curiosity.. can someone define and quantify surface conditions? Not just what we physically see “tiny droplets on the surface” but what “condition” is it that were actually creating that’s beneficial to pinning



Surface conditions is a descriptor not a measurement. So it can't be quantified and the definition of good surface conditions is the droplets.

What the mechanisms at play are? Can't say :shrug:


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 1
    #28376864 - 06/27/23 06:05 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

That’s fair

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28376871 - 06/27/23 06:09 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Chamo said:

Obviously the co2 levels are going to be far greater in a closed, colonizing spawn container, even with sufficient GE. The point is that the concentrations of co2 changing stimulate different growth. So going from a higher concentration of co2 while colonizing and lowering it drastically with FAE, theoretically stimulates fruiting.



But even in those containers there's exchange of gasses through some mechanism right? You really think a tub lid is anywhere near as effective?

How long you think before you'd suffocate in a tub? Lid latched?




I’m not sure I understand what you are getting at. I am not denying that those exchange of gases exist.

What I am saying is the different concentrations stimulate different growth. During colonization the co2 concentrations are higher, and during fruiting the co2 conditions are lower

The exchange of gases is always happening (hopefully). What I am saying is that it is the differing of these concentrations, lowering of co2 and increasing of oxygen that can stimulate the mycelium to go from vegetative growth to fruiting growth.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28376873 - 06/27/23 06:10 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chamo said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Chamo said:

Obviously the co2 levels are going to be far greater in a closed, colonizing spawn container, even with sufficient GE. The point is that the concentrations of co2 changing stimulate different growth. So going from a higher concentration of co2 while colonizing and lowering it drastically with FAE, theoretically stimulates fruiting.



But even in those containers there's exchange of gasses through some mechanism right? You really think a tub lid is anywhere near as effective?

How long you think before you'd suffocate in a tub? Lid latched?




I’m not sure I understand what you are getting at. I am not denying that those exchange of gases exist.

What I am saying is the different concentrations stimulate different growth. During colonization the co2 concentrations are higher, and during fruiting the co2 conditions are lower

The exchange of gases is always happening (hopefully). What I am saying is that it is the differing of these concentrations, lowering of co2 and increasing of oxygen that can stimulate the mycelium to go from vegetative growth to fruiting growth.



What I'm getting at is that there's plenty of exchange happening without us needing to fan.


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28376877 - 06/27/23 06:13 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. Now, y'all can't tell anyone but the real secret is surface conditions.

Also, can someone define and quantify evaporation please?





this is what ive been waiting for, but i think has been answered a on page 2


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: dna24] * 1
    #28376882 - 06/27/23 06:17 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dna24 said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. Now, y'all can't tell anyone but the real secret is surface conditions.

Also, can someone define and quantify evaporation please?





this is what ive been waiting for, but i think has been answered a on page 2



I see realitive humidity defined but not evaporation


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28376884 - 06/27/23 06:19 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I am not advocating that people fan. I am stating that my understanding of the subject is that FAE stimulates fruiting conditions by decreasing the concentrations of carbon dioxide. Fanning is not going to hurt. Will it help? I don’t know and I can’t speak for it.

I was only saying this in relation to evaporation. I never even knew people considered it a “pinning trigger”. If I fan it is casually and just to move some air around. It’s not going to hurt anything.

I’m agreeing with you that it is not necessary Under ideal circumstances.  But to suggest it will hurt something is what I disagree with. Maybe if you are fanning aggressively and for long periods of time it will cause a disruption…but as I said. Simply opening the lid and waving air around in the tub won’t hurt anything.

Otherwise I was inclined to agree with most that was said here. I don’t see evaporation as a pinning trigger. I understood it to be changing co2 concentrations.

And on a side note, technically evaporation rates could be quantified if you are weighing the changes. Not that I think it would do any good

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 2
    #28376885 - 06/27/23 06:25 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chamo said:
I am not advocating that people fan. I am stating that my understanding of the subject is that FAE stimulates fruiting conditions by decreasing the concentrations of carbon dioxide. Fanning is not going to hurt. Will it help? I don’t know and I can’t speak for it.

I was only saying this in relation to evaporation. I never even knew people considered it a “pinning trigger”. If I fan it is casually and just to move some air around. It’s not going to hurt anything.

I’m agreeing with you that it is not necessary Under ideal circumstances.  But to suggest it will hurt something is what I disagree with. Maybe if you are fanning aggressively and for long periods of time it will cause a disruption…but as I said. Simply opening the lid and waving air around in the tub won’t hurt anything.

Otherwise I was inclined to agree with most that was said here. I don’t see evaporation as a pinning trigger. I understood it to be changing co2 concentrations.

And on a side note, technically evaporation rates could be quantified if you are weighing the changes. Not that I think it would do any good



I'm not disagreeing with you about CO2 concentration and pinning and I'm not saying fanning is harmful.

I'm saying fanning is useless.


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28376888 - 06/27/23 06:27 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Maybe. Maybe not :rockon:

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 3
    #28376892 - 06/27/23 06:28 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

:eww:


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28376893 - 06/27/23 06:30 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Seems like full colonization and FAE would be the "triggers" to switch to fruiting, temperature and humidity being more secondary variables that determine how healthy the flush is?

I agree with pandaskis take, and think thats pretty much what I was getting at as well


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tri] * 5
    #28376896 - 06/27/23 06:32 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

And sunlight!

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28376899 - 06/27/23 06:33 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

[
Quote:

Chamo said:
Maybe. Maybe not :rockon:



Put it this way. Think about how tight something would need to be sealed for you to suffocate then remember that this organism does well in filtered spawn containers. It needs no where near as much oxygen and pinning even happens in those filtered spawn containers.


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Mycolorado] * 1
    #28376900 - 06/27/23 06:34 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
And sunlight!




:mindexpanding:

I got got didn't I


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 2
    #28376901 - 06/27/23 06:34 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

dna24 said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. Now, y'all can't tell anyone but the real secret is surface conditions.

Also, can someone define and quantify evaporation please?





this is what ive been waiting for, but i think has been answered a on page 2



I see realitive humidity defined but not evaporation



I define evaporation as the natural process of water changing into water vapor. :shrug:

@Chamo Fanning truly is useless, you should allow the natural processes of things to do the work for you.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: mushhead] * 2
    #28376909 - 06/27/23 06:37 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Actually, sublimation is defined as going from the solid state directly to the gaseous state.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 1
    #28376911 - 06/27/23 06:39 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

There is more than one pinning trigger, though. I’m not trying to debate which is most important and in what ratios you need them. I think a lot of cubensis will grow in just about any conditions.

A fully colonized spawn bag can create pins because FAE is not the only stimulant to reproduce. If the mycelium has consumed all of its available nutrition, it can also pin.

So I don’t really see a debate. We agree. The mushrooms will grow and thrive if you can dial in the proper tub. Even with “high” levels of co2, it is lower than a spawn bag and it will still stimulate the same thing. I just say that people seem scared of fanning when all it can really do is help with some stale air. Maybe it helps maybe it doesn’t. It probably wouldn’t affect the grow noticeably either way.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: mushhead]
    #28376912 - 06/27/23 06:39 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mushhead said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

dna24 said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. Now, y'all can't tell anyone but the real secret is surface conditions.

Also, can someone define and quantify evaporation please?





this is what ive been waiting for, but i think has been answered a on page 2



I see realitive humidity defined but not evaporation



I define evaporation as the natural process of water changing into water vapor. :shrug:

@Chamo Fanning truly is useless, you should allow the natural processes of things to do the work for you.



Fucking textbook. Love it.

Now how do we quantify it? What are the limits? Too much? Too little? What are our indicators?


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28376914 - 06/27/23 06:40 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chamo said:
It probably wouldn’t affect the grow noticeably either way.



Exactly my point, useless


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Mycolorado] * 1
    #28376915 - 06/27/23 06:40 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
Actually, sublimation is defined as going from the solid state directly to the gaseous state.



Wait? Did I miss a ninja edit?


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 3
    #28376917 - 06/27/23 06:41 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

:yes:

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28376919 - 06/27/23 06:44 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Well now you are just continuing a debate because you want to be correct. If it is useless, don’t do it. I don’t know if you can make that claim. But I understand how you feel about it. It’s okay brotha

I was talking about evaporation. And we agree on that.

But how do you say evaporation rates can’t be quantified? You can get a ballpark estimate by weighing it, waiting a certain amount of time, and weighing it again. Other than mushrooms exhaling co2 where would the weight loss come from? At the end you have your evaporation rate.

I don’t see the point of that but why couldn’t it be calculated in theory?

Edited by Chamo (06/27/23 06:46 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28376927 - 06/27/23 06:51 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chamo said:
Well now you are just continuing a debate because you want to be correct. If it is useless, don’t do it. I don’t know if you can make that claim. But I understand how you feel about it. It’s okay brotha

I was talking about evaporation. And we agree on that.

But how do you say evaporation rates can’t be quantified? You can get a ballpark estimate by weighing it, waiting a certain amount of time, and weighing it again. Other than mushrooms respiring oxygen where would the weight loss come from? At the end you have your evaporation rate.

I don’t see the point of that but why couldn’t it be calculated in theory?



I'm not saying it can't be quantified, I'm asking how we quantify it.

My point about the statement being discussed as the main topic of the thread, and actually I'm pretty sure nektar's point as well, is that it's pretty much meaningless. Yes the word make sense together, it's gramatical and all that but wtf are we getting across with it?

And why I keep asking for quantification is cause obviously there's such a thing as too much evaporation, which is why we don't keep cakes exposed on the kitchen counter.

And no, I wasn't "trying to be right" that was literally my point. Fanning will not affect your grow in a noticeable way so it is unnecessary and useless by definition of the damn words


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 4
    #28376929 - 06/27/23 06:53 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
Actually, sublimation is defined as going from the solid state directly to the gaseous state.



Yeah I realized my idiot mistake after clicking send, which is what usually happens.

Quote:

SirPsycho said:

Fucking textbook. Love it.

Now how do we quantify it? What are the limits? Too much? Too little? What are our indicators?



Unless I'm stupid, which go ahead and rack my knuckles if I am, water vapor measured in the air is called Humidity.
:rofl:

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 6
    #28376932 - 06/27/23 06:56 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Evaporation is secondary at best IMO.

You want to keep your substrate surface conditions wet hydrated, but evaporation would cause an absence of this moisture perse that would invoke a cultivator to begin a misting regimen that would then be going against cultivation advice of "leave it alone" "Don't mist it" "Just set it and forget it" "A dialed in Monotub doesn't need misting" yada yada yada.

But as we all know over misting has been a plague among new cultivators for well over a decade now.

In best practice you want to keep the surface kinda wet, but not terribly in order to keep the mycelium surface from drying out.

We preach about microclimate and I feel that at the micro-surface of the substrate we create this environment by keeping these "beads of moisture" to assure as that the surface will not dry and thus become unfavorable for fruiting.

With the onset of Fresh Air Exchange (FAE) we simulate the open air natural environment for mushrooms to grow.

In the wild foraging I encounter countless times were fruits are harvested "in the morning dew" so to speak, so the conditions are observed in nature.

As far as evaporation it's parts of a cycle that with out precipitation your land experiences drought conditions.

With all the being said, unless you plan on maintaining the evaporation cycle with misting and fanning (OLD TEK) just dial in your conditions as to maintain good surface hydration and allow passive air flow and you're golden.

Doing it the dialed in mono way makes fanning useless.

Just my thoughts on this subject and completely open to discussion.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28376944 - 06/27/23 07:05 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

You have not seen an effect. If my experience tells me it does not hurt and can be beneficial in ways, what makes you correct if there is no way to quantify it?

You seem to like to use the quantification argument to downplay other theories, but you realize that it blows your argument out of the water as well?

I am using meters and my experience over the years leans towards a benefit to occasional fanning,

Your experience says that it doesn’t do any good, then do not fan. If there is no way to quantify it then arguing beyond that point is useless for both sides, by the “damn” definition of the word.

And do not tell me I’m the one who continues it lol I say let it go

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tormato]
    #28376946 - 06/27/23 07:06 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I completely agree with everything you said

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 7
    #28376948 - 06/27/23 07:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

in my experience, the only people who fan are devil worshipers and people who dont love themselves.  dialed in field capacity and a modified tub is whats up.  or not.  ive had canopies with unmodded tubs too if i babysit the lid-flip

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: BeefSupremeJr] * 2
    #28376953 - 06/27/23 07:13 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Shoeboxes are the ultimate in neglecting your grows. Spawn it, lid it, leave it. If the mushrooms want to grow, they’ll push the lid off themselves.

Or use a grocery bag from the jump and throw all your worries into a trash can along with your triched out grow from yesterday.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: BeefSupremeJr] * 2
    #28376954 - 06/27/23 07:14 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I’m about to change my username to DakotaFanning. :rant::lol:

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28376970 - 06/27/23 07:24 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mushhead said:
Quote:

Mycolorado said:
Actually, sublimation is defined as going from the solid state directly to the gaseous state.



Yeah I realized my idiot mistake after clicking send, which is what usually happens.

Quote:

SirPsycho said:

Fucking textbook. Love it.

Now how do we quantify it? What are the limits? Too much? Too little? What are our indicators?



Unless I'm stupid, which go ahead and rack my knuckles if I am, water vapor measured in the air is called Humidity.
:rofl:



You're right that is humidity but I asked about evaporation.
Quote:

Chamo said:
You have not seen an effect. If my experience tells me it does not hurt and can be beneficial in ways, what makes you correct if there is no way to quantify it?

You seem to like to use the quantification argument to downplay other theories, but you realize that it blows your argument out of the water as well?

I am using meters and my experience over the years leans towards a benefit to occasional fanning,

Your experience says that it doesn’t do any good, then do not fan. If there is no way to quantify it then arguing beyond that point is useless for both sides, by the “damn” definition of the word.

And do not tell me I’m the one who continues it lol I say let it go



You're the one that said it has not noticeable effects on grows dude, not me. Now it has a noticeable benefit?


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 2
    #28376974 - 06/27/23 07:27 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chamo said:
I completely agree with everything you said




You just agreed fanning is useless if you have a dialed in monotub? Isnt that the point sirpsycho was trying to get to? .____.

Ive been a proselyte when it comes to condemning fanning, as you can tell, i argued against you in a few forums. saying that It can be harmful at worst and useless at best. CO2 doesnt just collect in the bottom of the tub, so it doesnt really need to be "moved around" by fanning to remove it. 

Can we at least agree on that?

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Pandaskis] * 1
    #28376980 - 06/27/23 07:30 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pandaskis said:
Quote:

Chamo said:
I completely agree with everything you said




You just agreed fanning is useless if you have a dialed in monotub? Isnt that the point sirpsycho was trying to get to? .____.

Ive been a proselyte when it comes to condemning fanning, as you can tell, i argued against you in a few forums. saying that It can be harmful at worst and useless at best. CO2 doesnt just collect in the bottom of the tub, so it doesnt really need to be "moved around" by fanning to remove it. 

Can we at least agree on that?



Cognitive dissonance is a bitch


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Pandaskis]
    #28376993 - 06/27/23 07:38 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Shhh I was trying to diffuse the situation and you called me out lol

I agree that co2 doesn’t collect at the bottom of the tub. It mixes with the air. I’m totally on board with what you guys are saying about just dialing it in and letting it do the work. It’s sufficient.

I was just making the point that if there is no way to quantify these things, how do we quantify “dialed in” or “surface climate”. There is not a great way to quantify any of it. So i also agree with stipe about that.

If there is no way to quantify it either way, It just comes down to personal experience and preference.

If your grow design works well by just leaving the conditions alone why would you change it? I’m not suggesting that you do.

If it can’t be quantified either way, as has been said here, then it basically means nothing for either side of the debate.

****WARNING: I do not condone or condemn the use of fanning********

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28376996 - 06/27/23 07:40 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Pandaskis said:
Quote:

Chamo said:
I completely agree with everything you said




You just agreed fanning is useless if you have a dialed in monotub? Isnt that the point sirpsycho was trying to get to? .____.

Ive been a proselyte when it comes to condemning fanning, as you can tell, i argued against you in a few forums. saying that It can be harmful at worst and useless at best. CO2 doesnt just collect in the bottom of the tub, so it doesnt really need to be "moved around" by fanning to remove it. 

Can we at least agree on that?



Cognitive dissonance is a bitch




Hey man, I thought we were cool. I guess you’re just used to everyone telling you that you are right.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28377004 - 06/27/23 07:45 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chamo said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Pandaskis said:
Quote:

Chamo said:
I completely agree with everything you said




You just agreed fanning is useless if you have a dialed in monotub? Isnt that the point sirpsycho was trying to get to? .____.

Ive been a proselyte when it comes to condemning fanning, as you can tell, i argued against you in a few forums. saying that It can be harmful at worst and useless at best. CO2 doesnt just collect in the bottom of the tub, so it doesnt really need to be "moved around" by fanning to remove it. 

Can we at least agree on that?



Cognitive dissonance is a bitch




Hey man, I thought we were cool. I guess you’re just used to everyone telling you that you are right.



Yeah dude, that's exactly it.


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28377006 - 06/27/23 07:46 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I agree quantifying is a moot point; I find this hobby is more about visual cues more than anything.

Every grow is unique in a way so we learn ways to adapt. :strokebeard2:

As for CO2 I've only seen this relevant to gourmet species in which case an adequate intake and exhaust system handles the build up.


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tormato] * 3
    #28377009 - 06/27/23 07:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

We’ve gotta do something about these blue oyster farts causing global warming

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tormato]
    #28377010 - 06/27/23 07:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I didn’t mention fanning to start a debate. I was relating it to evaporation. It had never occurred to me that someone might fan for evaporation. I always understood that fanning (if you choose to do it) was for replacing the air. I learned something. I don’t care if someone fans or doesn’t.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tormato] * 3
    #28377011 - 06/27/23 07:51 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tormato said:
I agree quantifying is a moot point; I find this hobby is more about visual cues more than anything.

Every grow is unique in a way so we learn ways to adapt. :strokebeard2:

As for CO2 I've only seen this relevant to gourmet species in which case an adequate intake and exhaust system handles the build up.



That's actually what I'm getting at with this quantify questions we can't do shit with this evaporation or CO2 talk cause we have no effective way to check these things.

Surface conditions on the other hand? We all know what good surface conditions look like at a glance and no I can't quantify it because it's a descriptor not a measurement.


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 4
    #28377014 - 06/27/23 07:55 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I measure good surface conditions by how many tiny micro droplets. The more the gooder my surface conditions. Checkmate you fuckin atheist


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Tormato] * 1
    #28377017 - 06/27/23 07:56 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tormato said:
Evaporation is secondary at best IMO.

---

In best practice you want to keep the surface kinda wet, but not terribly in order to keep the mycelium surface from drying out.

We preach about microclimate and I feel that at the micro-surface of the substrate we create this environment by keeping these "beads of moisture" to assure as that the surface will not dry and thus become unfavorable for fruiting.

With the onset of Fresh Air Exchange (FAE) we simulate the open air natural environment for mushrooms to grow.

---

As far as evaporation it's parts of a cycle that with out precipitation your land experiences drought conditions.

With all the being said, unless you plan on maintaining the evaporation cycle with misting and fanning (OLD TEK) just dial in your conditions as to maintain good surface hydration and allow passive air flow and you're golden.


:hatsoff::mushroom2::heart:




Would having your your tub dialed in for FAE while not drying out too fast not inherently also be dialing in your evaporation?

Seems that if there are able to be beads of moisture on the surface it would at least in part be due to the FAE and the substrate hydration being balanced enough to allow for a slow steady evaporation of moisture without drying out too quick, which is what we do to dial in our tubs right??

I feel lost the further people distinguish evaporation from humidity and surface conditions, they are 2 sides of the same coin in my brain but im a dumbass so if I need to force myself to seperate those concepts I will they just seem intrinsically entwined


--------------------
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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Screwup] * 3
    #28377018 - 06/27/23 07:56 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Screwup said:
I measure good surface conditions by how many tiny micro droplets. The more the gooder my surface conditions. Checkmate you fuckin atheist



You use calipers for that?


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 4
    #28377019 - 06/27/23 07:57 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
We’ve gotta do something about these blue oyster farts causing global warming



I know....shit stinks for real :argh:


Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Tormato said:
I agree quantifying is a moot point; I find this hobby is more about visual cues more than anything.

Every grow is unique in a way so we learn ways to adapt. :strokebeard2:

As for CO2 I've only seen this relevant to gourmet species in which case an adequate intake and exhaust system handles the build up.



That's actually what I'm getting at with this quantify questions we can't do shit with this evaporation or CO2 talk cause we have no effective way to check these things.

Surface conditions on the other hand? We all know what good surface conditions look like at a glance and no I can't quantify it because it's a descriptor not a measurement.




It's just an art form that takes times to develop like most hobbies.

We're all going to fail at some point, but it's what we learn that makes us better.

:chefskiss:


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 2
    #28377021 - 06/27/23 07:58 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Cognitive dissonance is a bitch




Hey man, I thought we were cool. I guess you’re just used to everyone telling you that you are right.



Yeah dude, that's exactly it.




I love it when I have the one guy on ignore who talks the most and knows the least. Then when reasonable people reply to him, it looks like the reasonable person is crazy and yelling at himself.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28377029 - 06/27/23 08:01 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Tormato said:
I agree quantifying is a moot point; I find this hobby is more about visual cues more than anything.

Every grow is unique in a way so we learn ways to adapt. :strokebeard2:

As for CO2 I've only seen this relevant to gourmet species in which case an adequate intake and exhaust system handles the build up.



That's actually what I'm getting at with this quantify questions we can't do shit with this evaporation or CO2 talk cause we have no effective way to check these things.

Surface conditions on the other hand? We all know what good surface conditions look like at a glance and no I can't quantify it because it's a descriptor not a measurement.




But psycho, you could quantify co2. You could quantify evaporation rates in the substrate by weighing them. You can quantify a lot of environmental variables if you want to. Whether it means anything or not would be another argument.

I agree that surface conditions are reasonable to assess at a glance. But how did you achieve those surface conditions? And how do you quantify it? At that point we are talking very subjectively. And you are using descriptors as measurements.

If this is an art and there are not quantifiers, then why is your subjective experience more valid if we both arrive at the same surface conditions?

If it’s not possible to quantify then why are you arguing so aggressively for one side? I don’t know why it’s such an issue.

Edited by Chamo (06/27/23 08:02 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 13
    #28377031 - 06/27/23 08:02 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I think the real pinning triggers are the friends we made along the way.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28377034 - 06/27/23 08:05 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chamo said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Tormato said:
I agree quantifying is a moot point; I find this hobby is more about visual cues more than anything.

Every grow is unique in a way so we learn ways to adapt. :strokebeard2:

As for CO2 I've only seen this relevant to gourmet species in which case an adequate intake and exhaust system handles the build up.



That's actually what I'm getting at with this quantify questions we can't do shit with this evaporation or CO2 talk cause we have no effective way to check these things.

Surface conditions on the other hand? We all know what good surface conditions look like at a glance and no I can't quantify it because it's a descriptor not a measurement.




But psycho, you could quantify co2. You could quantify evaporation rates in the substrate by weighing them. You can quantify a lot of environmental variables if you want to. Whether it means anything or not would be another argument.

I agree that surface conditions are reasonable to assess at a glance. But how did you achieve those surface conditions? And how do you quantify it? At that point we are talking very subjectively. And you are using descriptors as measurements.

If this is an art and there are not quantifiers, then why is your subjective experience more valid if we both arrive at the same surface conditions?

If it’s not possible to quantify then why are you arguing so aggressively for one side? I don’t know why it’s such an issue.



Yes, I already agreed you could but how do we?

And once again surface conditions are a descriptor. I can't ask how much surface conditions. But I can ask how much CO2 per volume or how much water turned into vapor.


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 3
    #28377036 - 06/27/23 08:06 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
I think the real pinning triggers are the friends we made along the way.



#frens

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 2
    #28377039 - 06/27/23 08:08 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Tormato said:
I agree quantifying is a moot point; I find this hobby is more about visual cues more than anything.

Every grow is unique in a way so we learn ways to adapt. :strokebeard2:

As for CO2 I've only seen this relevant to gourmet species in which case an adequate intake and exhaust system handles the build up.



That's actually what I'm getting at with this quantify questions we can't do shit with this evaporation or CO2 talk cause we have no effective way to check these things.

Surface conditions on the other hand? We all know what good surface conditions look like at a glance and no I can't quantify it because it's a descriptor not a measurement.




I think this was what i was trying to say in my initial post, albeit a bit less eloquently. Visual indicators are more useful for me personally than theoretical and scientific indicators. Im first and foremost a cultivator, and i only dabble in science haha

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #28377043 - 06/27/23 08:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I really can't wait until the next time a noob with zero grows posts some variant of "evaporation triggers pinning."
#triggered

I'll say it again in case anyone missed it: the original posts on here about that concept, from the George W. Bush presidency, were talking about fanning PF Tek grows to "trigger pinning by evaporation."

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 6
    #28377050 - 06/27/23 08:14 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

You're one of my pinning triggers.
:heart:


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 2
    #28377052 - 06/27/23 08:15 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
I really can't wait until the next time a noob with zero grows posts some variant of "evaporation triggers pinning."
#triggered

I'll say it again in case anyone missed it: the original posts on here about that concept, from the George W. Bush presidency, were talking about fanning PF Tek grows to "trigger pinning by evaporation."




Does it trigger you simply cause their parroting that, and you feel it has no susbtance or helps in the given situation, ive definitely said that before, but usually in context with like 3-4 other pinning triggers.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: NFLProof] * 4
    #28377057 - 06/27/23 08:17 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

NFLProof said:
You're one of my pinning triggers.
:heart:



Wherever you are are my proper surface conditions, bb ❤️

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 1
    #28377065 - 06/27/23 08:20 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Get a room


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 3
    #28377068 - 06/27/23 08:21 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I wana pin


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 4
    #28377069 - 06/27/23 08:21 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
I really can't wait until the next time a noob with zero grows posts some variant of "evaporation triggers pinning."
#triggered

I'll say it again in case anyone missed it: the original posts on here about that concept, from the George W. Bush presidency, were talking about fanning PF Tek grows to "trigger pinning by evaporation."



I still think you need to run a fruiting setup at 100% humidity and prove that before you go and get all pent up ready to attack someone you disagree with, especially a “noobie” as you keep trying to flex.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: milkboy] * 3
    #28377071 - 06/27/23 08:22 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

milkboy said:
I wana pin



Snuggle up, buttercup

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28377075 - 06/27/23 08:27 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)



Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Chamo said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Tormato said:
I agree quantifying is a moot point; I find this hobby is more about visual cues more than anything.

Every grow is unique in a way so we learn ways to adapt. :strokebeard2:

As for CO2 I've only seen this relevant to gourmet species in which case an adequate intake and exhaust system handles the build up.



That's actually what I'm getting at with this quantify questions we can't do shit with this evaporation or CO2 talk cause we have no effective way to check these things.

Surface conditions on the other hand? We all know what good surface conditions look like at a glance and no I can't quantify it because it's a descriptor not a measurement.




But psycho, you could quantify co2. You could quantify evaporation rates in the substrate by weighing them. You can quantify a lot of environmental variables if you want to. Whether it means anything or not would be another argument.

I agree that surface conditions are reasonable to assess at a glance. But how did you achieve those surface conditions? And how do you quantify it? At that point we are talking very subjectively. And you are using descriptors as measurements.

If this is an art and there are not quantifiers, then why is your subjective experience more valid if we both arrive at the same surface conditions?

If it’s not possible to quantify then why are you arguing so aggressively for one side? I don’t know why it’s such an issue.



Yes, I already agreed you could but how do we?

And once again surface conditions are a descriptor. I can't ask how much surface conditions. But I can ask how much CO2 per volume or how much water turned into vapor.




Yes that what I said in the post. If we are both arriving at the same general description of healthy surface conditions, how we arrived there is irrelevant. It’s all just your experience and preference.

That is if what you say is true, and there is no way to quantify it. If there is no way to quantify it then there are no claims to be made for either side. What is necessary or not necessary is however the grower can achieve general descriptions of proper surface conditions.

It comes down to personal experience and opinions if we are not quantifying anything. Why are you so confident in what you say then?

Edited by Chamo (06/27/23 08:28 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 2
    #28377078 - 06/27/23 08:28 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I trigged my pin hard while reading this thread

and now a drawing :smile:

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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28377079 - 06/27/23 08:31 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chamo said:


Yes that what I said in the post. If we are both arriving at the same general description of healthy surface conditions, how we arrived there is irrelevant. It’s all just your experience and preference.

That is if what you say is true, and there is no way to quantify it. If there is no way to quantify it then there are no claims to be made for either side. What is necessary or not necessary is however the grower can achieve general descriptions of proper surface conditions.

It comes down to personal experience and opinions if we are not quantifying anything. Why are you so confident in what you say then?



Because even you agreed with me. Fanning has no noticeable effect on your grows either way those were your words dude.


--------------------
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28377082 - 06/27/23 08:35 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I suppose I misspoke.

I was trying to say that if there is no way to quantify it as you say, then I’m not going to claim it has a benefit. But in the same way, you can’t really claim it’s unnecessary. However you can reach ideal surface conditions is all that matter,  whatever that means.

Do what works for you.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo]
    #28377087 - 06/27/23 08:39 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Tormato described what that means


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: 999999999] * 2
    #28377089 - 06/27/23 08:40 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gleyck said:
I trigged my pin hard while reading this thread

and now a drawing :smile:





I like the drawing and presentation. Is that you?

But... "And carbon dioxide accumulates at the bottom...."

NO. If it did every mammal on earth would die. That's been debunked here for a long time.

For what it's worth, this whole thread started from me seeing a Trusted Cultivator with 5 years on here who grows great shrooms saying this week "Evaporation is a major factor for pinning."

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #28377092 - 06/27/23 08:44 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:

NO. If it did every mammal on earth would die. That's been debunked here for a long time.




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28365102#28365102
:fingerpistol:


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28377097 - 06/27/23 08:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

nektar61 said:

NO. If it did every mammal on earth would die. That's been debunked here for a long time.




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28365102#28365102
:fingerpistol:



You kid, but....you WILL suffocate if you sleep on the floor if your vindictive ex-girlfriend cuts a hole in the wall from the next dorm room and puts several bricks of carbon dioxide in your room, and you're passed out drunk.

Happened on CSI and I think was based on real thing. But that's a fuck of a lot more C02 than our poor little shrooms have to endure and slight FAE mixes it up with air, obviously.

My doctor's office blood draw room has a big vat of liquid nitrogen for freezing samples. Probably 30 gallon size. It's chained to the wall. I couldn't picture anyone stealing it and the chain is thin, so asked "is the chain so it won't wander off at night?"

The tech said "No, it's so it won't fall over. If it falls over it can displace all the oxygen in the room fast enough to suffocate people. Not to mention freezing your feet so they break off."
--
I think Stamets first wrote about the "carbon dioxide falls to the bottom of the tub" thing. I'd bet that most of the b.s. shroom tek out there came from Stamets guessing.

Edited by nektar61 (06/27/23 08:56 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61]
    #28377100 - 06/27/23 08:56 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I have thought about this as well. I have a few theories. Which kind of goes along with different temps triggering fruiting too.

What if fruiting conditions trigger different conditions for different kinds of bacteria to bloom, that can initiate or encourage fruiting in different ways?

Just a wild idea, and purely anecdotal. However you might be able to find different bacteria that are commonly in substrates with mushrooms that could thrive in what ever conditions you have your tub in fruiting. Temp, RH and substrate type and maybe even concentration of gases present.

Edited by Glomus (06/27/23 08:59 PM)

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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: SirPsycho] * 2
    #28377109 - 06/27/23 09:03 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Tormato said:
I agree quantifying is a moot point; I find this hobby is more about visual cues more than anything.

Every grow is unique in a way so we learn ways to adapt. :strokebeard2:

As for CO2 I've only seen this relevant to gourmet species in which case an adequate intake and exhaust system handles the build up.



That's actually what I'm getting at with this quantify questions we can't do shit with this evaporation or CO2 talk cause we have no effective way to check these things.

Surface conditions on the other hand? We all know what good surface conditions look like at a glance and no I can't quantify it because it's a descriptor not a measurement.



I knew you had to be getting at something with that round about questioning.
I Just kept thinking to myself there is no real way I can even quantify evaporation at all.
The best I could have given were how to measure humidity, but I see now that wasn't the point at all.
:takingnotes:


--------------------
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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Glomus] * 1
    #28377111 - 06/27/23 09:04 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Glomus said:
What if fruiting conditions trigger different conditions for different kinds of bacteria to bloom, that can initiate or encourage fruiting in different ways?





I don't think that's it. The air circulation in a tub or shoebox comes from the heat given off by the mycelium. Put an accurate digital thermometer probe into the center of a very clean grow that's about to pin. It's 3 to 6 degrees F hotter than room temp. It's not from bacteria, it's from the mycelium itself.

Fun fact: the idea that became the whole "dialed in monotub" was invented by Roger Rabbit and he got the idea while thinking about some engineering hack that he saw in use when he worked on the Alaska Pipeline in the 1970s, a passive evaporation system they had to keep pipes from freezing. Here's the thread from 2007 where he explains it:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6880451#6880451
-
Quote:

Glomus said:
Which kind of goes along with different temps triggering fruiting too.




Shrooms will pin and fruit at any temp between about 40 F and about 95 F. I know about the 40 F because someone on here from Alaska (not RR) said he fruited at that temp approx. Said it took much longer but worked. I'm pretty sure it was user name alaskappalachian. And I know about the 95 F because I've seen it in Texas in a cow pasture. 

I keep my shroom closet at 70 F. That seems like the sweet spot between fast and contam. Though lower temp might be better, some say slower grows make stronger shrooms, that the reason PE are twice as strong is they take twice as long to grow.

Edited by nektar61 (06/27/23 09:14 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61]
    #28377118 - 06/27/23 09:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

That’s not a “dialed in monotub” he references here. It is for the SGFC. Which correct me if I’m wrong, he advised to mist and fan. Weird she would incorrectly use that as an example.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Chamo] * 2
    #28377125 - 06/27/23 09:18 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)


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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Mycolorado]
    #28377128 - 06/27/23 09:24 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:





Same idea. One influences the other.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #28377134 - 06/27/23 09:28 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

/s

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Mycolorado] * 1
    #28377138 - 06/27/23 09:31 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
/s



I don't know that that means. And searching it pulls up mathematical operators. What's it mean?

And I was wrong. (and the guy pointing out that I'm wrong has been wrong 50 times for my one).

But first mention of "monotub" on this site was a year before that, had RR on the thread, but he didn't start the thread.

Weird part is that the OP of the thread mentions it like it's something people know, he isn't inventing it, just mentioning something no one's mentioned here before. Like they always existed. haha.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5345510#5345510

Still doesn't mention "dialing in", and roger mentions not modding his at that point, but what he describes in the Pipeline idea is the idea behind a dialed-in monotub.

Edited by nektar61 (06/27/23 09:39 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 2
    #28377143 - 06/27/23 09:41 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

It’s commonly used to indicate sarcasm so that statements aren’t taken at face value.  I wasn’t referring to what you posted but sarcastically pointing out that Chamo statement was a “gotcha” to you which seems to be his MO.  :shrug:

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Mycolorado] * 2
    #28377145 - 06/27/23 09:43 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Like when you use /i to end italics in basic formatting 👍

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61]
    #28377148 - 06/27/23 09:45 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
Quote:

Gleyck said:
I trigged my pin hard while reading this thread

and now a drawing :smile:





I like the drawing and presentation. Is that you?

But... "And carbon dioxide accumulates at the bottom...."

NO. If it did every mammal on earth would die. That's been debunked here for a long time.







I don't get it: are we discussing if CO2 is heavier than O2? lol
Or why the gases in a confined space/tube do not behave in the same manner as on the earth’s atmosphere? ...or even why a sealed bottle of wine has such great shelf life? I have a interesting link for you:

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2020/09/23/carbon-dioxide-distribution-atmosphere/

...and then we can talk about why Bod's unmoded tubs just work cuz they involve misting/fanning every other day


--------------------
“The map is not the territory”

Edited by 999999999 (06/27/23 09:52 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: Mycolorado]
    #28377149 - 06/27/23 09:46 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
It’s commonly used to indicate sarcasm so that statements aren’t taken at face value.  I wasn’t referring to what you posted but sarcastically pointing out that Chamo statement was a “gotcha” to you which seems to be his MO.  :shrug:




He does love a gotcha, but unlike me, won't concede when he's gotchaed, which happens about once an hour on here for at least two weeks.

Judging from SirPsycho's responses, he's been gotchaed about 5 times on this thread alone, not just on some arcane shroomery ancient history footnote but on basic grow teks that matter. And I've seen noobs agreeing with his wrong shit before I non-personed him. That's counter productive to the reason this place exists. Our primary goal is to help the shroomer who still suffers with bacteria.

He's annoying even when you have him on ignore, because of replies. He's said he loves annoying people. And his user name means something like "annoying little child" in Spanish.

If mods actually did their fucking job he'd be gone. I do know that a mod threatened me with perma ban when I'd been here for 2 months for being 1/20th of the annoying know it all he is. That mod was right to do so. 

And I wasn't celebrating irritating people, I was kind of ashamed by it. As one should be.

The fact that he hasn't been perma-banned yet actually makes me think he might be some TC's / mod's sockpuppet just doubling down on wrong shit to troll us.

Edited by nektar61 (06/27/23 10:08 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61]
    #28377154 - 06/27/23 09:53 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Yeeesh. The over exaggerated sense of self importance in this one. If someone disagrees just shove the fingers in the ear and yell LALA while trying to discredit them.

The funny part is I agree with her on the original post.

It’s okay though, I don’t want to disturb the bubble.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 4
    #28377172 - 06/27/23 10:35 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
He does love a gotcha, but unlike me, won't concede when he's gotchaed..



Ironic statement from someone that’s literally ignored every single comment on this thread disproving your theory that humidity alone triggers pinning

Quote:

nektar61 said:
If mods actually did their fucking jobs he’d be gone…

The fact that he hasn't been perma-banned yet actually makes me think he might be some TC's / mod's sockpuppet just doubling down on wrong shit to troll us.




Honestly just seems like you have a problem with TC’s, Mod’s, and the Shroomery in general and just look for any reason to try and disagree with people despite everyone basically coming together and agreeing the whole subject is pointless..

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: aPurpleCray0n]
    #28377188 - 06/27/23 11:00 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

aPurpleCray0n said:
Ironic statement from someone that’s literally ignored every single comment on this thread disproving your theory that humidity alone triggers pinning




I never said that humidity alone triggers pinning. I named several factors. In this thread alone I've mentioned clean growth medium, FAE, oxygen, water in the substrate, humidity, temperature, genetics, light, and surface conditions. That's off the top of my head without re-reading every post.

You're putting bullshit in my mouth and damning me for it. Classic strawman argument.

Quote:

aPurpleCray0n said:
Honestly just seems like you have a problem with TC’s, Mod’s, and the Shroomery in general and just look for any reason to try and disagree with people despite everyone basically coming together and agreeing the whole subject is pointless..



Welcome to the Shroomery. Jesus. What an odd post.

What makes you think I have a problem with TCs? I have a lot of respect for most TCs. I can't think of a one I have an issue with as a TC overall. If I have an issue with one, it's because the're also a mod and I have an issue that they don't mod, or selectively mod, when it's personal. 

TCs are not infallible. They make mistakes, and I've seen them argue, both claiming to be right. But I don't have a problem with TCs. 

Strawman and Ad Hom the only logical fallacies you know? Can't come up with a Red Herring?

Edited by nektar61 (06/27/23 11:17 PM)

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 5
    #28377195 - 06/27/23 11:17 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
So another vote for "humidity triggers pinning."

Agreed.

Anyone here grow shrooms in desert environments? Ever leave the lid off? Do they grow well if the substrate is watered? There would be evaporation but not humidity.




Just for starters… this whole thread is basically based off your statement of “Martha’s don’t evaporate and still pin” which was inaccurate and you haven’t really had anything else to say except complaining about chamo. But that’s besides the point, you’re calling someone out for not having anything to say when someone provides them with evidence against them, and I’m just saying that’s a pot calling a kettle black

I’m not gonna sit here and debate this with you, you made comments about TC’s this morning and then comments about telling ythan about how to run his own site, then several comments about not being “able to wait for a noob to say…” like that makes you superior and we should be belittling noobies so they don’t want to be here. THEN this most recent comment about mods.. maybe it’s just the way I’m reading you but you’ve just had a generally foul tone lately🤷🏼♂️. Take it as you will

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: aPurpleCray0n]
    #28377197 - 06/27/23 11:20 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

aPurpleCray0n said:
Just for starters… this whole thread is basically based off your statement of “Martha’s don’t evaporate and still pin”



I didn't mention Marthas in the OP and I didn't bring up Martha's, Smelly did. I agreed later, but this whole thread is not based on that, Strawman.

Quote:

aPurpleCray0n said:
I’m not gonna sit here and debate this with you, you made comments about TC’s this morning and then comments about telling ythan about how to run his own site, this most recent comment about mods.. maybe it’s just the way I’m reading you but you’ve just had a generally foul tone lately🤷🏼♂️. Take it as you will



Jesus fucking Christ. More strawmen.

Also not going to go point by point because you're not owning up to the repeated strawmen attacks. But the thing I suggested to Ythan he took my advice on. It's been implemented.

Suggesting an idea to the site owner that they eagerly implement is not
"telling them how to run their own site." It's contributing.

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #28377203 - 06/27/23 11:25 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Funny again calling a kettle black. I’m not “not owning up to” anything and these aren’t attacks, just stating it as I sees it, but way to focus on one single point. That particular one wasn’t what you said it’s how you said it, that’s why I said maybe it’s me… but since you just get defensive it’s probably not, and this is also just like talking to a wall at this point so, good luck with that

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: aPurpleCray0n]
    #28377207 - 06/27/23 11:28 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

aPurpleCray0n said:
Funny again calling a kettle black. I’m not “not owning up to” anything and these aren’t attacks, just stating it as I sees it, but way to focus on one single point.



The single point that you have over and over and over in a very few posts claimed I said something I didn't, then attacked me for it?

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Re: Is "evaporation triggers pinning" bullshit? [Re: nektar61] * 8
    #28377277 - 06/27/23 11:28 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
All points have been made.  This is devolving real quick.  There, I modded

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