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OfflineGlomus
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28375354 - 06/26/23 02:07 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

If anything you could use a microscope with a camera and post pictures in a microbiology forum or something on the internet. The links I posted are actual experiments that have been done in a lab setting. From my understanding there are bacteria that can suppress other bacterias, I definitely believe there is a connection to bacteria and trich, as far as some enhancing mushroom growth, it's worth experimenting.

Edited by Glomus (06/26/23 04:00 PM)

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Glomus]
    #28375367 - 06/26/23 02:22 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

It's definitely a thing.

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OfflineGlomus
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28375935 - 06/26/23 10:27 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I was reading recently about how 2% of compost by weight is made up of microbes, and when you fry them that dead bacteria turns into food for mycelium. Makes me wonder about manure, as its it so highly populated with microbes.

I'm going to try some experiments with common cheap soil inoculants on agar, I have them already and why not. Starting off with ones that have a single train of bacteria in them like azospirillum. Maybe I'll dig deeper and try to find and buy some other cultures of bacteria of interest.

Edited by Glomus (06/26/23 11:08 PM)

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OfflineGlomus
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Glomus]
    #28376035 - 06/27/23 01:56 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)


Edited by Glomus (06/27/23 04:13 AM)

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OfflineGlomus
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28377321 - 06/28/23 04:20 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

You were saying that most bacteria cultures you'll find are contaminated with other bacterias and that it's difficult to isolate certain genetic subtypes?

I know this is getting into a different realm of microbiology but I feel like this forum is the place for innovation with P cubensis specifically.  I've asked Chat GPT and it says, pseudomonas fluorescens and pituda/ Bacillus Subtilis/ Rhizobacteria like rhizobium/ azospirillum and surprisingly streptomyces are the most promising bacterias of interest for mushroom cultivation.

I recently keep hearing about Rondo Pseudomonas as a new innovation in the cannabis cultivation world, recent research on pseudomonas strains is fascinating. There is a whole system of microbes not only in the root systems and soil, but on and within the plants going on.

Edited by Glomus (06/28/23 04:24 AM)

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Glomus] * 1
    #28377357 - 06/28/23 05:46 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

The problem isn't the mixing of separate species of bacteria (although this certainly poses a separate problem on it's own), the problem here is that within a single species most strains of that species are detrimental to the health of the culture. Isolation of specific sub strains have to be isolated from the mycelial plane of cultures effected by beneficial bacteria as outlined in my post, linked above.

Here:

Quote:

This article is a perfect example of the process used to identify and isolate symbiotic bacteria from any species of mycelia.

https://academic.oup.com/femsle/article/218/2/271/530921

"Bacteria were collected from cultures of P. ostreatus following mushroom production on samples of composted and noncomposted cotton plant waste products. Samples were selected from spent culture medium that had previously produced either high or low yields and the microorganisms were classified into four groups (C-H, C-L, NC-H, and NC-L) according to whether they had been isolated from composted (C) or noncomposted (NC) plant waste, with, high (H) or low (L) yields."

The selected species in this case was P. ostreatus, however it could have easily been Pan. Cyanescens with samples taken from spent composted manure substrate rather than spent composted cotton...

"Other cultures of bacteria were obtained by direct sampling of mycelia produced in composted waste cotton, and were collected after the first harvest of P. ostreatus at 3 to 7 cm depth below the surface of the mushroom culture medium. The mycelia were carefully isolated by hand, using tweezers.."

Ten colonies of fluorescent Pseudomonas were selected and isolated from the mycelial plane of P. ostreatus.

P. ostreatus were grown on TSB agar with each bacteria bacterial To observe the effects of selected fluorescent pseudomonad cultures on growth of axenic cultures of mycelium.

The result:

Inoculation with fluorescent Pseudomonas spp. significantly promoted the development of the mycelium of P. ostreatus, the formation of primordia, and the development of P. ostreatus basidiome.

Hypothesis:

It is likely that the Psilocybe producing Coprophilous/Saprotrophic species have similar relationships with the bacteria in their respective substrates. Isolating those bacteria and Understanding their effect on health and growth will greatly advance our understanding of these species.

The composted substrates used to grow exotic Coprophilous and Saprotrophic species are the best candidate's for investigation into which bacteria form beneficial partnerships with their respective mycelial colonies as shown above.

Most of that process is out of the reach of most growers without lab connections,
however if using the sampling scheme above, one could collect samples from within the spent manure/wood substrate and attempt to grow out some colonies on agar:
Once colonies form, streak to new plates to be sent away for sequencing. This will at least tell you whats in the substrate. Isolating those bacteria and culturing them separately on agar to observe the interactions between them and mycelium on agar, well, this is an entirely different problem that will need to be solved. 




Excerpt from this post:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26872959

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OfflineGlomus
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28378503 - 06/29/23 01:35 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Interesting so taking sample from say a monotub that happen to perform exceptionally well could be worth studying. What if there was a simpler way to create the right growing condition for those specific bacterias to thrive in. Or save your old substrate, that performed extraordinary, and "inoculate" that into all your tubs when preparing your pasteurized substrate or something. kind of like bacteria pheno hunting.

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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Glomus] * 1
    #28378613 - 06/29/23 05:55 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

No, this doesn't apply to coir. Coir is an inert hydroponics medium. This sampling  protocol would be limited to composted manures or any other substrate which contains a microbial community requiring pasteurization.

I don't want to dissuade anyone but this is an advanced sampling protocol requiring microscopy, elite level aseptic technique, and communication with a bacteriology lab.  I provide a link to send bacterial colonies for identification.

Give it a go if you're interested, but, the lab will not be interested in working with folks running clandestine "mycology" work....if you know what I mean.



Cubes grow like weeds in just about any environment. This would be better applied to more exotic, difficult to fruit species which are more likely to require microbes for healthy development.

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