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Offlinejacbpdx
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: Tri]
    #28375197 - 06/26/23 12:14 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Taking a live tissue aka pure  culture will result in genetically identical characteristics. And ‘moving forward’, meaning now you know and won’t have to say “I may be incorrect”

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Offlinejacbpdx
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: jacbpdx]
    #28375198 - 06/26/23 12:15 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

And do ya know how ridiculously small individual spores are? It would be virtually impossible to isolate two individual spores without some serious equipment and microscopes

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OfflineTri
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: jacbpdx]
    #28375232 - 06/26/23 12:41 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jacbpdx said:
Taking a live tissue aka pure  culture will result in genetically identical characteristics.





Quote:

jacbpdx said:
And do ya know how ridiculously small individual spores are? It would be virtually impossible to isolate two individual spores without some serious equipment and microscopes





:facepalm:

Edit:
Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
Quote:

Chamo said:
Sorry bud, I actually linked sources. The only sources here that anyone has is from their friends. If you think the only way to produce an isolate is mono-mono…I don’t know what to say





Again, this is not what I said. I said an isolate is not achieved via scalpel, loop, or biopsy. Isolates are achieved via serial dilution/microscopy, or dedikaryotization. I defined an isolate as a single dikaryotic strain, or a monosporic isolate, which is basically how you have been describing it when referring to the stability witnessed after multiple transfers.


A strain is a genetic variant or subtype of a microorganism. Secondary mycelium contains many individual subtype strains growing in close proximity but never intertwining. The hyphae can sense each other, they maintain some degree of minute separation measured in nanometers. The density of this growth, the scale of structure and separation makes macroscopic manipulation of individual strains impossible to separate or isolate. Rhizomorphs and "sectors" are corporate structures packed with a miriad of individual strains/subtypes, all of them microscopic.

The only way to separate neohaplont parents from the tangle of microscopic structures is by chemical dedikaryotization, or by production of protoplast in the lab; or by starting from monosporic isolates aided by microscopy and micromanipulators.


Like this:

https://www.singerinstruments.com/solution/sporeplay/

The information I've provided is not linked, it's read in books, manuals, and textbook on the topic of mycology and microbiology. If you want further verification, I suggest reading.






--------------------
𝕴𝖋 𝕴 𝖍𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝖘𝖊𝖊𝖓 𝖋𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖎𝖘 𝖇𝖞 𝖘𝖙𝖆𝖓𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖚𝖕𝖔𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖘𝖍𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉𝖊𝖗𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝕲𝖎𝖆𝖓𝖙𝖘

Edited by Tri (06/26/23 12:47 PM)

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Offlinejacbpdx
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: Tri]
    #28375242 - 06/26/23 12:49 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

So let me get this straight. You say “correct me if I’m wrong”. A user who’s been on this board for 20 years and has an Oregon Producers license, corrects you and you now are claiming that YOURE correct?? Oh how I’ve missed, or haven’t really, this forum. Good luck and at very least try and stop spreading misinformation if you don’t know. There’s nothing wrong with saying it. It shows character

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OfflineTri
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: jacbpdx] * 1
    #28375301 - 06/26/23 01:25 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I asked for a Trusted Cultivator to correct me if I am wrong, no offense but how long ago you registered or started growing does not equate to expertise or technical knowledge.

Especially when what you're saying seems to directly contradict the information the TCs are presenting.

I included that quote from Stipe (a TC) from just days ago because he seems to specifically talk about how you can not obtain a genetically isolated strain from tissue culture, which seemed to be exactly the opposite of what you are stating.

It seems like a very simple concept, so if im wrong tell me why I'm wrong rather than try to swing your dick around with "20 years" or a license.

2 parent spores, isolated through serial dilution, streaking, etc. will create a single genetic strain.

Tissue cloning from MS, or even a clone of a clone of a clone of MS, will still have many strains within it, especially considering concepts like bullers phenomenon

Here's another quote from Stipe
Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
Quote:

Chamo said:
Just back to the original question and then I really will stop.

Do you have any links outside of this website that support the claim that a strain is solely defined by monokaryotic mating?




It's not the only way to produce a fruiting strain, you've missed the point. 2 monos make a dikaryotic strain. Laboratory wizardry with protoplasts can produce a strain, dedikaryotization can produce a strain, etc. I'm sure there's a multitude of advanced interventions into protoplasm/nuclei to produce any number of interesting outcomes.

Your original statement that isolates can be produced by scalpel transfers was what started this conversation. I stated that an isolate is a strain, a strain in isolation produced by two compatible monokaryons, dedikaryotization, or bullers. Strains are not isolated via plate transfers; sectoring or the lack therefore isn't a sufficient condition to indicate individual strain isolation, etc.

I hope that clears things up because this is all the time I have left to dedicate to this :lol:

Time to go relax.




--------------------
𝕴𝖋 𝕴 𝖍𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝖘𝖊𝖊𝖓 𝖋𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖎𝖘 𝖇𝖞 𝖘𝖙𝖆𝖓𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖚𝖕𝖔𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖘𝖍𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉𝖊𝖗𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝕲𝖎𝖆𝖓𝖙𝖘

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Offlinejacbpdx
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: Tri]
    #28375332 - 06/26/23 01:51 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I guess having a masters in mycology from OSU doesn’t qualify as a trusted cultivator, would degree in microbiology for Texas a&m or degree in biology from U of Hawaii qualify? Those are what other colleagues I employ have. I tried to learn ya something and you went all over the place. Good luck learning anything with that mindset.

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OfflineTri
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: jacbpdx]
    #28375345 - 06/26/23 01:58 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I ask for explanation, you give dick swinging.

If you are able to explain, please do, otherwise :shrug:

Presenting alleged accolades is not "trying to learn me something", its you saying "because I said so"

All I'm saying is a genetic isolate (derived from two parent spores) would likely be a much more consistent test subject to expiriment with the effects of different methods on potency, rather than using a clone culture that holds the genetic information of a variety of strains.


So if that statement seems incorrect to you, why?

I love to learn, and am more than happy to be wrong.


--------------------
𝕴𝖋 𝕴 𝖍𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝖘𝖊𝖊𝖓 𝖋𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖎𝖘 𝖇𝖞 𝖘𝖙𝖆𝖓𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖚𝖕𝖔𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖘𝖍𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉𝖊𝖗𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝕲𝖎𝖆𝖓𝖙𝖘

Edited by Tri (06/26/23 02:00 PM)

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Offlinejacbpdx
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: Tri]
    #28375587 - 06/26/23 05:10 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Start here. This does a decent job of explaining in not too technical terms and saves me a lot of typing.

https://midnightmushroomco.com/blogs/myco-blog/fungi-reproduction-how-a-mushroom-is-born

Cloning from pure culture can only yield the exact same fruit from which it came…there is no chance of any variations and you won’t find any linkable literature stating “clones contain info of various strains”.

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Offlinejacbpdx
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: Tri]
    #28375590 - 06/26/23 05:13 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

You could also research on how ‘cloning’ works across all biology. That will help answer your question as well. A clone is an EXACT genetic replica…hence the word ‘clone’.

Noun: Biology-
an organism or cell, or group of organisms or cells, produced asexually from one ancestor or stock, to which they are genetically identical

There’s no debate

Edited by jacbpdx (06/26/23 05:15 PM)

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Offlinejacbpdx
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: Tri]
    #28375623 - 06/26/23 05:41 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

And continually quoting/copy and pasting another member who themselves admitted has no link for the info they’re stating is absurd. I’ll put my degrees “because I said so” up against anyone’s non degrees “because I said so”, any day. This is all info you can find yourself online. Then ya won’t have to wonder who’s correct..hint:it’s me!!!

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OfflineTri
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: jacbpdx] * 1
    #28375658 - 06/26/23 06:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

6a - Substrate inoculated with a single colony will colonize quickly and contain the same genetics throughout, it will be totally clonal. The fruits produced by this colony will all be the same genetically, cloning from any one of them will yield the same exact isolate, identical to the one in step 4.




Doesn't this contradict your experience with testing clones though? You said they all had different alkaloid concentrations

I appreciate the link, and I do understand in a basic sense how the reproduction cycle works.

Its the wether or not dikaryotic hyphae remain fairly entwined within multi spore mycelium cultures and their fruiting bodies thats got me confused.

I do remember a thread where someone took like over 100 transfers and still had variation, ill try to find it.

What you are positing seems to be in direct contradiction of what the TC's of this forum state repeatedly and clearly, so I'm very much at odds. Sorry for being abrasive but its only because I welcome being corrected/being wrong, but stating so without evidence helps no one and is annoying and makes me cranky. I love productive conversation and debate though, and I love learning about mycology

Also I quote the TC's because that's the whole precedent of this site, is that the Trusted Cultivators can be taken at their word due to their long and continuous demonstration of competence on the subject, and have years worth of evidence to back it up. Please understand anyone (and many have) can claim to have a degree, so excuse me if that wasn't the instantaneous trump card you thought it would be.

-- edit:
Quote:

jacbpdx said:
Cloning from pure culture can only yield the exact same fruit from which it came…there is no chance of any variations and you won’t find any linkable literature stating “clones contain info of various strains”.




this is 10000% confirmation bias on my part but I can't resist (I am a dumbass, and can decipher ~1/3 of this jargon, I figure you are more educated than I so either you will find it interesting and challenging to your perspective or it isn't applicable at all and I'm reaching for the stars, either way, was an interesting little research session)

"Cloning a mushroom fruiting body from multi-spore genetics may not yield a genetic isolate equal to a single dikaryotic strain. Reference Chenli et al. (2017) describes the establishment of uracil auxotrophic dikaryotic strains of Lentinula edodes through crossbreeding and subsequent screening. The study found that single-spore isolates derived from the dikaryotic strain exhibited different genetic patterns, including mixed patterns, indicating genetic variability within the isolates. This suggests that the genetic composition of a single fruiting body derived from multi-spore genetics may not be equivalent to that of a single dikaryotic strain."

"Based on the provided references, it is evident that a tissue sample from a mushroom fruiting body can contain multiple sets of genetic information, indicating genetic mosaicism and somatic genetic recombination during haploidization (Hsieh et al., 2017). The presence of haploid dikaryotic cells and genetic variability within single-spore isolates derived from fruiting bodies suggests that the tissue sample may not be a genetic isolate similar to a single dikaryotic strain (Hsieh et al., 2017). Additionally, studies have shown intragenic recombination among Termitomyces isolates and the formation of persistent diploid monokaryons through matings between compatible haploid monokaryons (Hsieh et al., 2017). These findings support the idea that a tissue sample from a mushroom fruiting body can contain multiple sets of genetic information, rather than being a genetic isolate similar to a single dikaryotic strain."

"To obtain a genetic isolate culture through tissue cloning of a mushroom fruiting body, the following steps can be followed:

1. Prepare the tissue sample: Take a tissue sample from the desired mushroom fruiting body. This can be done by cutting small pieces of the fruiting body.

2. DNA isolation: Use a suitable DNA isolation protocol to extract DNA from the tissue sample. This can involve homogenization and extraction techniques specific to the mushroom species Dwivedi et al. (2018)Marhaver et al., (2008).

3. Cloning and culture: Once the DNA is isolated, it can be used for cloning and culture. This can involve techniques such as polymerase chain reaction (PCR) amplification of specific genetic regions or the construction of cDNA libraries (Joh et al., 2007; López-Gartner et al., 2015). The isolated DNA can be used to generate a genetic library or clone specific genes of interest.

4. Selection and isolation: Select and isolate individual clones or colonies from the cloned culture. This can be done by streaking or plating the cloned culture onto suitable growth media and selecting individual colonies for further analysis (Joh et al., 2007; Chowdhury & Heinemann, 2006).

5. Verification and characterization: Verify the genetic identity and purity of the isolated clones. This can involve techniques such as DNA sequencing, genetic markers, or gene expression analysis (Joh et al., 2007; Kang et al., 2013). Characterize the isolated clones by studying their genetic and biochemical properties (Joh et al., 2007; Fokunang et al., 2022).

By following these steps, it is possible to obtain a genetic isolate culture from a tissue sample of a mushroom fruiting body. This allows for the study and manipulation of specific genetic traits or genes of interest.

Without DNA isolation, it would not be possible to obtain a genetic isolate culture through tissue cloning of a mushroom fruiting body. DNA isolation is a crucial step in obtaining the genetic material necessary for cloning and culture. It allows for the extraction and purification of DNA, which can then be used for various molecular biology techniques such as PCR amplification, gene cloning, and sequencing. These techniques rely on the availability of DNA as a template for analysis and manipulation. Therefore, DNA isolation is an essential step in obtaining a genetic isolate culture from a tissue sample of a mushroom fruiting body."


Edited by Tri (06/26/23 06:43 PM)

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OfflineChamo
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: Tri] * 1
    #28375680 - 06/26/23 06:41 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Tri, I would like to clarify my position here without controversy, because this conversation was referring to something deeper.

In this conversation you quoted the debate was between what the definition of an isolated strain is, and if it is practical to obtain an isolated strain through agar transfers. It gets deeper into di-mon mating and whether or not that is considered an isolate as well, and if it is possible to obtain it with a scalpel.

I would like to say that I agree with you here, and this was never the issue within that conversation. An individual fruiting body can produce a multitude of different genetic strains and variants. Taking a clone will not produce identical subsequent grows.

Where stipe and I might disagree is that you could take the clone, and isolate the sectors down to individual cultures. He would say it is not a pure isolate. But it would still give more consistent grows than simply taking a clone.

But even isolating the Sectoring in a clone would not necessarily reproduce the same characteristics of the fruiting body it came from.

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OfflineChamo
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: jacbpdx]
    #28375684 - 06/26/23 06:46 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jacbpdx said:
You could also research on how ‘cloning’ works across all biology. That will help answer your question as well. A clone is an EXACT genetic replica…hence the word ‘clone’.

Noun: Biology-
an organism or cell, or group of organisms or cells, produced asexually from one ancestor or stock, to which they are genetically identical

There’s no debate





Sir, are you saying that in a clone like this, that there is only one set of genes at play?


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OfflineTri
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: Chamo] * 1
    #28375689 - 06/26/23 06:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Yeah I hear you, my only position in this thread is literally "A single dikaryotic strain will be a more consistent test subject than a culture obtained from cloning an MS fruiting body" I didn't know there was such disagreement about whether or not fruiting bodies can hold genetic information from multiple strains.

and I totally get your point on "If its isolated down to a point where there's no distinguishable difference in characteristics/phenotypes, why not call it an isolate" for all intents and purposes of a home mycologist I reckon it might as well be, I do think it comes down to splitting hairs and semantics

--

Quote:

Chamo said:
Quote:

jacbpdx said:
You could also research on how ‘cloning’ works across all biology. That will help answer your question as well. A clone is an EXACT genetic replica…hence the word ‘clone’.

Noun: Biology-
an organism or cell, or group of organisms or cells, produced asexually from one ancestor or stock, to which they are genetically identical

There’s no debate





Sir, are you saying that in a clone like this, that there is only one set of genes at play?







:whathesaid: legitimate question


--------------------
𝕴𝖋 𝕴 𝖍𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝖘𝖊𝖊𝖓 𝖋𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖎𝖘 𝖇𝖞 𝖘𝖙𝖆𝖓𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖚𝖕𝖔𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖘𝖍𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉𝖊𝖗𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝕲𝖎𝖆𝖓𝖙𝖘

Edited by Tri (06/26/23 07:07 PM)

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OfflineChamo
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: jacbpdx] * 2
    #28376366 - 06/27/23 10:20 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jacbpdx said:
We’ve done it from clone which should theoretically give almost exact same results. 2 different spores can give you a multitude of different results and would serve ineffective




You have that backwards.

Quote:

jacbpdx said:
Taking a live tissue aka pure  culture will result in genetically identical characteristics. And ‘moving forward’, meaning now you know and won’t have to say “I may be incorrect”




Genetically identical characteristics to what? The parent mycelium, yes. The fruit body? Not necessarily.

Quote:

jacbpdx said:
You could also research on how ‘cloning’ works across all biology. That will help answer your question as well. A clone is an EXACT genetic replica…hence the word ‘clone’.

Noun: Biology-
an organism or cell, or group of organisms or cells, produced asexually from one ancestor or stock, to which they are genetically identical

There’s no debate




The mushrooms we are studying do not have the same life cycle as other organisms in biology. The dikaryotic stage makes this more complicated. It’s not the same as cloning a plant, whose genetics were already formed by fusing from parents. As a biologist you should know how diverse the tree of life is. That’s why we use taxonomy.


Quote:

jacbpdx said:
Start here. This does a decent job of explaining in not too technical terms and saves me a lot of typing.

https://midnightmushroomco.com/blogs/myco-blog/fungi-reproduction-how-a-mushroom-is-born

Cloning from pure culture can only yield the exact same fruit from which it came…there is no chance of any variations and you won’t find any linkable literature stating “clones contain info of various strains”.




From your link:

“The dikaryons are incompatible and stay separate from one another, unlike monokaryons they will not fuse or exchange genetics. Now that their goal is fruiting, it is a territory dispute, rather than a fuckfest. They radiate away from the original group of monokaryons.”

—Dikaryons can still exchange genetics, just not with other dikaryons. Dikaryotic mycelium is able to exchange genetic information with compatible monokaryons. It creates competition between the two nuclei for which one will remain with the nucleus from the monokaryot. It is not fully understood how the selection process is made, only that there is a cost benefit.

https://elifesciences.org/articles/75917.pdf


“5 - Each of these dikaryons will grow and dominate territory until enough resources have been accumulated that it decides to fruit (ignoring the many environmental factors involved). The mycelium of the dikaryotic colony goes through a series of changes, and through the process of primordial initiation. The mycelium making up the mushroom is identical in every way to the mycelium it came from, it is all the same purple dikaryotic cells.Even if there are multiple dikaryons overlaid and directly involved with one another, their genetics stay separate, and fruitbody formation is performed only by a single colony without involvement from any other. At this point in time we are far from the point where genetics are flexible.”

-I think the main point here is “The mycelium making up the mushroom is identical in every way to the mycelium it came from”.
Mycelium. Not mushroom. If I were to take a sector of mycelium from my photo above, and transfer it to agar it would look identical to the original mycelium (and probably not even). But it would not produce an identical fruiting body…Based on the photo I provided there are obviously many distinct strains of mycelium that make up the fruiting body. And they are not a homogenous colony. They clearly separate and sector.

So my question for you would be: if, according to you, any cloned tissue from the fruiting body would produce an identical clone, why do those strains from my clone clearly separate?

““Even if there are multiple dikaryons overlaid and directly involved with one another, their genetics stay separate, and fruitbody formation is performed only by a single colony without involvement from any other.”

-So then how do you know which mycelium to clone? You seem to be contradicting yourself by saying that many dikaryotic strains can exist in a fruit body, but only one of them is genetically responsible. So which one would you know to clone?

You are saying that only one dikaryotic strain is responsible for the mushroom but also saying many strains can exist within the fruiting body, while simultaneously saying that any tissue sample will produce a genetically identical sample. So how do you know where to take your clone specifically? That sounds like a big contradiction.

“The main takeaway is that while yes, there are technically two strains comprising a dikaryon, two strains inside a fruitbody, they ceased to exist as individuals in step 3 on the first image. From that moment on there is only a single cell type in the mycelium, and the fruitbody is only made of that mycelium. Thus, cloning a mushroom from any source, any place or origin, will yield only a single dikaryotic strain per mushroom.”

-Again, nuclei do not cease to be individuals until meiosis. The dikaryotic part of the lifecycle of mushrooms is the unique thing about them. Even after mon-mon mating, there is still competition within the cell between the two nuclei. When di-mon mating is initiated there is still competition on the individual level between nuclei.

And again, it seems like a contradiction.
“From that moment on there is only a single cell type in the mycelium, and the fruitbody is only made of that mycelium.”

But also says:

“Even if there are multiple dikaryons overlaid and directly involved with one another, their genetics stay separate, and fruitbody formation is performed only by a single colony without involvement from any other. “


So if there are multiple dikaryotic strains overlayed on the fruit body, and they don’t have anything to do with the genetics, then how do you know which part to clone?


I hope that you can clarify your position without waving your accolades around. Truth is truth.



Another example of Sectoring from an entire fruit body clone:



Edited by Chamo (06/27/23 10:43 AM)

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Offlinejacbpdx
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: Chamo]
    #28376716 - 06/27/23 03:56 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Trying to find better ways to explain what I’m trying to say. There’s a reason some people are ‘teachers’ and some are ‘students’ and I don’t  say that condescendingly. I’m saying that i myself am not able to explain/convey certain knowledge i possess. Let me know if this helps whereas you seem to be hung up on ‘dikaryotic’ cells/spores

http://bioweb.uwlax.edu/bio203/2011/bielmeie_luke/Reproduction.htm

Dikaryotic spores/cells reproduce sexually where’s clones reproduce asexually

I could be misunderstanding you as well so i own that

Edited by jacbpdx (06/27/23 04:01 PM)

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Offlinejacbpdx
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: Chamo]
    #28376726 - 06/27/23 04:09 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Also, the ‘cloning’ I refer to is of a fruit body not mycelium. And I don’t ‘wave my accolades around’ but if you want to take the words of so-called trusted cultivators over people with degrees/hands on knowledge, that’s on you. Come to one of Stamet seminars when they start again and see first hand what he has to say about a few “experts” on this site that I won’t name.

And im not implying a degree means I know more than everyone. The aforementioned Paul Stamets is pretty much all self taught/learned and to those that know, his is the paragon of all things mushrooms.

Edited by jacbpdx (06/27/23 04:15 PM)

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OfflineChamo
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: jacbpdx] * 2
    #28376744 - 06/27/23 04:33 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jacbpdx said: Cloning from pure culture can only yield the exact same fruit from which it came…there is no chance of any variations and you won’t find any linkable literature stating “clones contain info of various strains”.




Your own linked information states otherwise, which leads me to believe you are misunderstanding a lot.

Quote:

jacbpdx said: Dikaryotic spores/cells reproduce sexually where’s clones reproduce asexually




Dikaryotic spores do not exist. Clones are comprised of various dikaryotic strains of mycelium as your linked article explains. Dikaryotic mycelium has the potential to reproduce sexually, given the right conditions/circumstances. Your article even states the need to separate sectors before fruiting. But you are claiming that a clone will reproduce something identical. How can that be the case if multiple strains are present?

as evidence i showed you two pictures. They are taken from clones. They show clear separation of non-compatible mating types, indicating multiple strains present within one fruiting body. The dikaryotic strains perform differently in conjunction (or competition as the article claims) than when they are on their own.

so, you are claiming that taking a tissue sample from anywhere on a fruiting body will produce a clone identical to that which you took it from.

if you are taking a clone from my petri dish, how would you do it? Where would you take the transfer? there are multiple different sets of genetics in one fruiting body.


Quote:

jacbpdx said:
Also, the ‘cloning’ I refer to is of a fruit body not mycelium.




:foreheadslap:

what do you think the fruit body is made of?

The problem is you are assuming people dont understand things. And you are making claims that are demonstrably false. You accused Tri of blindly following TCs but you want him to blindly follow you because you have a bachelors degree and you dont understand that cloning mushrooms is not the same as "all of biology" as you say?

lets just keep it to the discussion and not make it personal and try to create hierarchies. The things you are saying are simplistic and you are accusing others of not being able to understand them. The colorful drawings give a good basic understanding. And i agree with like 90% of what you are saying.

But you are misreading your own links. There are multiple strains present in a clone. All Tri was saying is that if you begin with an isolate, that the fruiting body would not have these differing strains within them.

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Offlinejacbpdx
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: Chamo]
    #28376921 - 06/27/23 06:45 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

The fact that you aren’t cognizant that fruiting bodies contain different gene expressions than the mycelium mass is concerning for this discussion. Taking live tissue culture from fruit bodies will unquestionably give you more of a true genetic clone than mycelium matter. This is kinda what I mean about having more experience/knowledge than some. Certain genes from mycelium aren’t even activated/expressed at that stage. And once again an Isolate produces sexually…it needs another to reproduce…clones do not.  And apologies if previous texts came off as condescending or arrogant. True confidence is being able to change one’s mind

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OfflineChamo
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Re: dehydration and potency myths [Re: jacbpdx] * 2
    #28376925 - 06/27/23 06:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

A mushroom is composed of different strains of dikaryotic mycelium. I gave you multiple examples. What you are saying is very simplistic and it doesn’t follow any truth.

A single fruiting body can contain various genetic strains. Throw that on agar and you can see it for yourself. Grow every sector out and see if it resembles the cloned mushroom.

None of what you are saying makes sense so it’s hard to even reply to you.

Again you talk down, and you don’t know that a mushroom is made up of mycelium and that there is no such thing as a dikaryotic spore.

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