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OfflineGlomus
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Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates
    #28374489 - 06/25/23 07:28 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Does anyone have an knowledge or research about what specific Beneficial Bacteria are typically left in the sub after pasteurization? Is the reason they are ok to have in your sub because they are slower growing and don't pose a considerable threat to the myc or because they have some kind of "beneficial" synchronistic relationship with the myc? Also, has anyone experimented with adding beneficial bacteria to a sub? Such as nitrogen fixing bacteria like azospirillum? Thanks

-Glomus

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Glomus] * 2
    #28374541 - 06/25/23 08:10 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I had the exact same thought a couple years ago...

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26872959

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OfflineGlomus
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28374557 - 06/25/23 08:26 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Thanks for sharing this thread, I will dive into it more in depth. Very interested in anyone's research using different isolated bacteria or diversified inoculant blends.
When I started growing I noticed that some mono tubs that were made basically the same way and were being cultivated in the same room would have wildly different contamination events. One tub would become contaminated with trich before the first flush even finished and one right next to it in the same room would go on to produce 4 flushes and continue until the sub was completely spent without contamination. Why is this? I suspect that there are different bacteria that could take hold that may enhance the condition for something like trichoderma while maybe others can enhance or protect the cubes myc. Just a wild idea, but the bacterial contaminations I've dealt with have always been very interesting to me and seem understudied perhaps.

Edited by Glomus (06/25/23 08:28 PM)

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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28374570 - 06/25/23 08:30 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
I had the exact same thought a couple years ago...

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26872959



Well, that was an unsatisfying read. I'm guessing you haven't really had the opportunity to do any follow up work, IIRC you've be pretty much shut down since


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OfflineTri
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28374671 - 06/25/23 11:49 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

This seems to be potentially what "DR.Myc" figured out, he sells substrate probiotics. Mentioned him a few years ago and felt a little touchy so I haven't brought it up since, but I've used 1 of his products and had good results, would be cool to do some side by sides with a clone culture, in fact im gonna add that to my list


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OfflineGlomus
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Tri]
    #28374729 - 06/26/23 01:38 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3774852/

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341511666_Bacteria_of_the_Azospirillum_Genus_for_the_Optimization_of_the_Artificial_Culture_of_Xylotrophic_Mushrooms

There seems to be a lot of research out there for this kind of thing. I'm surprised that this isn't a practice being used more? Makes a ton of sense to me.

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OfflineGlomus
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Tri]
    #28374732 - 06/26/23 01:41 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I saw the Dr. Myc thread, seems like it's full of people calling it snake oil and saying your not a good mushroom grower if you need to use this? Seems like it would be very easy to run some experiments with agar plates. Like even observe the effects that some of these bacteria have on trich in an agar plate.

By the way Tri-polar, how do you get such tight even fruiting like that in your pics? is that genetics or your fruiting/grow methods?

Edited by Glomus (06/26/23 01:45 AM)

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OfflineTri
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Glomus]
    #28374753 - 06/26/23 02:39 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Glomus said:
I saw the Dr. Myc thread, seems like it's full of people calling it snake oil and saying your not a good mushroom grower if you need to use this? Seems like it would be very easy to run some experiments with agar plates. Like even observe the effects that some of these bacteria have on trich in an agar plate.



I think its a struggle of TCs wanting folks to learn the fundamentals without crutches, but it can definitely feel stifling to some. Once you understand your shit its important to do informed and controlled experiments, the envelope is always waiting to be pushed!

Quote:

By the way Tri-polar, how do you get such tight even fruiting like that in your pics? is that genetics or your fruiting/grow methods?




Bof

The links in my signature + dumb luck. Im functionally dumb as fuck so if I can do it you can too!
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Invisiblealtford78
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28374818 - 06/26/23 04:53 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
I had the exact same thought a couple years ago...

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26872959




Woah, tough crowd in there. Weird vibes.

I'll be looking forward to an update, although it seems pretty complex to pull off without access to a lab for the bacterial isolation and sequencing.


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OfflineGlomus
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Tri]
    #28374819 - 06/26/23 04:53 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

The fundamentals of not contaminating your grian or substrate, isn't that like the whole idea of growing mushrooms lol. If I introduce this bacteria and it lowers contamination risk and it works, why wouldn't you want people to use it? It's like saying nope you suck at growing mushrooms if you use a laminar flow hood, you have to first understand the pain of many failed and contaminated runs and do it without one, cuz its a crutch.

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28374840 - 06/26/23 05:24 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
I had the exact same thought a couple years ago...

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26872959



Well, that was an unsatisfying read. I'm guessing you haven't really had the opportunity to do any follow up work, IIRC you've be pretty much shut down since




Yep, haven't been doing much. I had some interesting possibilities that never came to fruition. Preety big in places like Japan. I can't seem to find it, but there's an award winning Eryngii farm in Japan that utilized bacterial inoculation in their spawn to produce fruits that had a snappy tecture like carrots.

Very interesting. The peanut gallery didn't seem to approve, but that was to be expected.

I just asked chatgpt:

Eryngii Farms in Japan: Bacterial Mushroom Production


User
Which Eryngii farms in Japan utilize bacteria to produce mushrooms

ChatGPT
There are several Eryngii (King Oyster Mushroom) farms in Japan that utilize bacteria to produce mushrooms. One notable example is the "Mokumoku Eryngii Farm" located in Saitama Prefecture, Japan. This farm specializes in cultivating Eryngii mushrooms using a unique cultivation method called "Bacterial Grain Spawn" or "BG Spawn."

In this method, the farm utilizes bacteria-infused grain spawn as the primary inoculant for mushroom cultivation. The bacteria help to accelerate the growth and development of the Eryngii mushrooms, resulting in high-quality and flavorful mushrooms. The Mokumoku Eryngii Farm has gained recognition for its innovative approach and commitment to sustainable farming practices.

It's important to note that there may be other Eryngii farms in Japan that also use bacteria for mushroom production, as the cultivation methods can vary between different farms and regions.

I don't have time to verify today, so I'll leave that there for folks if they want to follow up with some googling.

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OfflineTri
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28375128 - 06/26/23 11:27 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

For what its worth, like almost every bag I send is bacterial af. Not myc piss bacterial but definitely wet grains cream cheese fermented apple bacterial.

The bag that went to the first pic in my signature was just like that.


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Invisiblealtford78
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Tri] * 1
    #28375141 - 06/26/23 11:35 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)



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Offlinejungatheart
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: altford78]
    #28375162 - 06/26/23 11:50 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

in

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: jungatheart] * 2
    #28375213 - 06/26/23 12:22 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Everyone readimg this thread needs to keep in mind that 99.9% of bacteria is contaminant. Haphazardly introducing any ol bacteria will end in massive sorrow, perhaps crying in a hot shower. Very specific sub strains have been isolated and tested in laboratories with the intention of exposing to commercial cultures to track effects. Pretty advanced; Dr Myc is likely the willy myco of bacterial inoculation. Japanese, or any Asian laboratory will be lightyears ahead of western mushroom production technology/techniques.

The Japanese were spawning shiitake logs while proto Europeans were banging cave folk with unibrows:lol: They've got a massive head start on us.

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OfflineTri
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28375227 - 06/26/23 12:36 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I remain skeptical but interested

Would be interesting for someone with a scope to see if they can identify the strains of bacteria dr. Myc is using.

Anyone can be a snake oil salesman, still worth looking into imo


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Tri] * 1
    #28375249 - 06/26/23 12:55 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

It doesn't work like that. You can identify species, not genetic subtype. No way to visually tell the difference between common Bacillus subtilis and Bacillus subtilis QST713, for instance.

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OfflineTri
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #28375261 - 06/26/23 01:06 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Mm

Sad

Thanks for sharing your everflowing well of knowledge with dumbasses like me :rofl: its very helpful


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #28375265 - 06/26/23 01:08 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
It doesn't work like that. You can identify species, not genetic subtype. No way to visually tell the difference between common Bacillus subtilis and Bacillus subtilis QST713, for instance.




Not that I'm aware of anyways. Even if there was (which I highly doubt), the common bedroom scope operator wouldn't be likely to possess the requisite training to do so.

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OfflineTri
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Re: Beneficial bacteria in pasteurized substrates [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #28375308 - 06/26/23 01:32 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I'll light my St. Alan Rockefeller candle and pray a real mycologists looks into it πŸ™


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