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OfflineGlomus
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LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous!
    #28374801 - 06/26/23 04:26 AM (6 months, 30 days ago)

https://www.reddit.com/r/LionsManeRecovery/

I thought I would share this after reading many sad stories about a seemly large group of people that have had some kind of long lasting damage/symptoms from taking Lionsmane supplements. For some, it seemed to happen only after taking it a hand full of times. Symptoms include, panic attacks, insomnia, complete loss of libido and feeling, brain fog, heart palpitations, loss of touch in hands and feet, unable to focus. I just started growing Lions mane and was curious if anyone has been hearing about this? Thanks stay safe.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: Glomus]
    #28374826 - 06/26/23 05:00 AM (6 months, 30 days ago)

I scanned through it and a lot of posters posting not true info .. sounds like a bunch of BS posters and thread.


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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: seagu] * 2
    #28374841 - 06/26/23 05:26 AM (6 months, 30 days ago)

I don't trust any information coming from Reddit.


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OfflineVP123
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: Glomus] * 1
    #28374884 - 06/26/23 06:45 AM (6 months, 30 days ago)

Lions mane has been consumed for a very long time (decades or even centuries). If there were dangers we would have known those a very long time ago. It sounds like a huge pile of BS from reddit. People in the internet like to make up stories with false information to see how many people they can scare.


Edited by VP123 (06/26/23 06:46 AM)


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OfflineGlomus
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: VP123]
    #28375337 - 06/26/23 01:53 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

I mean that's what I thought initially but there are youtube videos of people sharing their experiences too. It's just concerning that people are coming forth with these stories, why would so many people just make up detailed accounts of these symptoms? What would be the point of that? Definitely something to at least consider the possibility of. There is a reason the FDA tests things for public safety, as corrupt as the pharmaceutical industry may be. I think Lions mane deserves much more research. 



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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: Glomus] * 1
    #28375525 - 06/26/23 04:20 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

Like others said above, these are not credible sources. It's anecdotal at best. It's not evidence based. simply people claiming they had an experience with no clear evidence that lions mane is the cause.

Don't stop at the pile of bs, dig deeper into peer reviewed articles. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C38&q=lions+mane+side+effects&btnG=

I'd be more concerned about where people get supplements and what other garbage is added during manufacturing as the supplement industry is not Regulated very well.


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OfflineGlomus
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: deadmandave]
    #28376021 - 06/27/23 01:30 AM (6 months, 29 days ago)

I agree, and after reading many peer reviewed studies I have felt confident using Lion's mane, also though why I was so surprised to see this type of thing. I've found supplements in general can be really misleading and sketchy, and it seems that all these stories are from the supplements. Nevertheless as a grower of Lion's Mane it's unsettling as this is supposed to be medicine for people. I'm not going to let these accounts sway me too much for the time being as it very well be could be BS, but I think it could be irresponsible to disregard these accounts completely, no matter how it affects mushroom businesses or how much of a buzz kill it might be. Just something to be aware of maybe.


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OfflineGlomus
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: deadmandave]
    #28376033 - 06/27/23 01:53 AM (6 months, 29 days ago)

.


Edited by Glomus (06/27/23 02:00 AM)


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Offlineseagu

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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: Glomus] * 1
    #28376147 - 06/27/23 06:26 AM (6 months, 29 days ago)

Not sure if you are aware but, companies from China and other countries can sell food labeled as "organic" but is covered in pesticides and other chemicals that are banned in the USA and elsewhere to be used on food and still be labeled "organic". If the country of origin labels it "organic" then they are given free reign to label and sell in the USA under the same label. So when you buy any food in the USA labeled "organic", it really matters what country it is coming from on whether it is organic grown or not. And if you go look where major suppliers of Lion's Mane supplements are coming from, China.. and tons of them claim organic. Which don't mean squat. But the average consumer usually is not aware the deception in the food labeling.

Also throughout history in the USA and in Europe there have been many chemicals that have been used on food and approved by the FDA, EPA and other agencies as safe and all that but were causing massive amounts of health problems. But for greed and political power were continously allowed to be sold and used on food for a long time. And it still goes on despite documented evidence certain things are unsafe even in small amounts. There are certain things banned in most all other countries because they cause health problems but allowed in the USA food supply.

So like deadmandave pointed out..
"I'd be more concerned about where people get supplements and what other garbage is added during manufacturing as the supplement industry is not Regulated very well."

There are too many studies showing the safety of Lion's Mane for thousands of years all over the world. And there is also the possibility the person is allergic to mushrooms in general. I forget which allergy it is but a supplier of mine is allergic to molds or something and that means they are also allergic to mushrooms and can't eat them or any foods prepared in a device that had them. It didn't make sense to me at first until I looked it up and lo and behold there is something about it where the two things work together in the allergy aspect. Very rare allergy, but it does exist. But people can be allergic to grass or other normal unavoidable things, but that doesn't mean those things are dangerous and to run away. Let's ban and kill all grass because 1 or two people are allergic... NOT...  Like I pointed out that reddit thread has a lot of posts of people spouting things that are just not true about mushrooms and Lion's Mane and it sounds like 1 person running around posting up a storm about things they are not informed on trying to convince people that their ignorance is true..


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Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineGlomus
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: seagu]
    #28376816 - 06/27/23 05:34 PM (6 months, 29 days ago)

Well to be fair the symptoms these people are describing aren't sounding like an allergy. They are describing Central nervous system damage and chemical/hormonal imbalances in the brain.

As far as the FDA and EPA goes with food, yeah its corrupt but it exists for a reason, and food and medicine are kind of different.

Maybe I should change the title to "Some Lion's Mane supplements could be extremely dangerous", Or "The way some Lion's Mane supplements are made could be extremely dangerous"??

Its just alarming and I want to be thorough and open minded to stories like these. Just saying something to be aware of maybe if more and more stories like this come to light in the future, that's all.


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: Glomus]
    #28377103 - 06/27/23 08:59 PM (6 months, 28 days ago)

I don't think the FDA or EPA are involved with supplements.

Take these stories with a grain of salt.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: deadmandave]
    #28377338 - 06/28/23 04:55 AM (6 months, 28 days ago)

Allergy influences the inflammatory status of the brain and ...

National Institutes of Health (.gov)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › articles › PMC3823434
by H Sarlus · 2012 · Cited by 42 — A recent study demonstrated that experimental models of allergic rhinitis are associated with a Th2 pattern of cytokine mRNA expression in the brain [27].

Allergic inflammation can affect neural activity on a variety of levels, including at the primary afferent sensory nerve, integrative centers of the central nervous system, autonomic ganglia, and autonomic neuroeffector junction.

Neural integration and allergic disease
Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology
https://www.jacionline.org › article › abstract



Allergies and their reactions are wide and varied. Yes there is the usual reactions most are aware of.. but it can cause reactions in the brain including headaches and other problems. Mold allergies for example which is cross related to Mushroom allergies can cause issues like this..  And as pointed out above Allergic reactions can cause central nervous system problems.


And yea the FDA and EPA is not involved in supplements, per se. The point of mentioning them though is that they allow often times dangerous substances to be used in the food supply. Every recalled substance was once approved by the FDA.... So Joe Shmoe from Idaho or China or another country or running some big supplement company could easily either knowingly or unknowingly use dangerous pesticides, cleaners, additives that cause allergic reactions/side effects in a small amount of people and have the FDA approval for said substances.

Lion's Mane is heavily studied for thousand years or so. The other stuff not so much.

And the point of all this is agreeing with deadmandave about being more concerned about what other stuff is added into the product.


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Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OnlineStromriderM
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: seagu]
    #28377634 - 06/28/23 10:31 AM (6 months, 28 days ago)

This is anecdotal but I sell a ton of lions mane tincture direct to customers at the farmers market and they all have nothing but good things to say

No matter what the substance there's always going to be a certain number of sensitive individuals. Just because peanuts make my neighbors throat close up doesn't mean peanuts are bad for me


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OfflineCloneufc
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: Stromrider]
    #28378886 - 06/29/23 11:12 AM (6 months, 27 days ago)

My friend ate bananas every day for years, then one day he almost died from one banana. I've seen people react to pineapple. Some people have autoimmune disease. Anaphylactic shock can be caused by any number of things, including mushrooms.


Edited by Cloneufc (06/29/23 11:13 AM)


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OfflineBastibla
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: Cloneufc]
    #28379905 - 06/30/23 08:04 AM (6 months, 26 days ago)

Saw an article about 6 months ago were tons of mushrooms from China which were meant for producing supplements were seized at customs and destroyed because they had hughe amount of toxic pesticide remains.

I would never ever buy a supplement if I haven’t seen the farm.
For me that would be much more likely the cause than the mushroom itself.


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OfflineGlomus
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: Bastibla]
    #28380229 - 06/30/23 01:51 PM (6 months, 26 days ago)

Wether it's from a pesticide or a mushroom allergy, whenever there is profit involved there will be those who cut corners at the expense of others health. A lot of mushroom supplements only have the mycelium which is far less potent and good sign its from a company doing the absolute bare minimum quality control. If these people are having a reaction to the mushroom there should be a warning making people aware of the this, so they don't keep taking it if they are one of the rare few that do have some kind of allergy. I personally won't buy a supplement that is made with just the mycelium for other reasons and now this one.


Edited by Glomus (06/30/23 01:55 PM)


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OfflineGlomus
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: seagu]
    #28380243 - 06/30/23 02:02 PM (6 months, 26 days ago)

Could you post the link for this research, I wasn't able to find it. It might be helpful for the people that are dealing with this.


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: Glomus]
    #28380682 - 06/30/23 08:38 PM (6 months, 25 days ago)

There is research indicating the mycelium of lions mane is the only part containing the compound (herinaceum?) That improves neurological functioning. Often times the mycelium contains most all of the same components as the mushrooms.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: deadmandave] * 1
    #28380981 - 07/01/23 05:16 AM (6 months, 25 days ago)

some people are allergic to peas....  I could care less about pea packages being labeled for possibly being allergic to some. Everything has a possibility for someone to be allergic to it.. If you are allergic to peas and you go and eat some peas and have a bad reaction... that is your own fault. If you got to a restaurant and eat something you are allergic to.. it is your own fault for not asking the server to ask the chef before you order it if something you are allergic to is in the food item.. not the restaurant's fault.. it's your fault...

So if you are allergic to mushrooms and go eat mushroom supplements and have a reaction... Survival of the fittest.. or smartest..  No label is going to fix stupid.

If you didn't know and consumed it and have a reaction, well then now you have an idea to take to your doctor and get tested. Still your fault. No label is going to fix ignorance. Just about everything has a possibility for people to be allergic to it. The only reason certain things get labeled allergens is because allergies to them are not rare... labeling everything as possibly allergenic is just bleep and an annoyance. Though I suppose it could make for some new jokes making fun of the companies for labeling everything.

bad pesticides being used is a whole other host of problems, as I was pointing out a few posts back about labeling and such and what certain countries are allowed to do. And the fact is the FDA and EPA have a slew of approved pesticides that are dangerous, but still approved to be used on the food supply. Labeling doesn't fix corruption.


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Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: seagu]
    #28381718 - 07/01/23 06:45 PM (6 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

seagu said:
some people are allergic to peas....  I could care less about pea packages being labeled for possibly being allergic to some. Everything has a possibility for someone to be allergic to it.. If you are allergic to peas and you go and eat some peas and have a bad reaction... that is your own fault. If you got to a restaurant and eat something you are allergic to.. it is your own fault for not asking the server to ask the chef before you order it if something you are allergic to is in the food item.. not the restaurant's fault.. it's your fault...

So if you are allergic to mushrooms and go eat mushroom supplements and have a reaction... Survival of the fittest.. or smartest..  No label is going to fix stupid.

If you didn't know and consumed it and have a reaction, well then now you have an idea to take to your doctor and get tested. Still your fault. No label is going to fix ignorance. Just about everything has a possibility for people to be allergic to it. The only reason certain things get labeled allergens is because allergies to them are not rare... labeling everything as possibly allergenic is just bleep and an annoyance. Though I suppose it could make for some new jokes making fun of the companies for labeling everything.

bad pesticides being used is a whole other host of problems, as I was pointing out a few posts back about labeling and such and what certain countries are allowed to do. And the fact is the FDA and EPA have a slew of approved pesticides that are dangerous, but still approved to be used on the food supply. Labeling doesn't fix corruption.





so devils advocate, what happens when you dont know and you get a bad reaction at a restaurant, whos to blame then?


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: dna24]
    #28381773 - 07/01/23 07:49 PM (6 months, 24 days ago)

You have to find the source of the bad reaction.

If it's an allergy it's all on you.

If it's poorly prepared food it's the restaurant.


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OfflineGlomus
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: deadmandave]
    #28381945 - 07/01/23 11:56 PM (6 months, 24 days ago)

Could you post the study that suggests that? I can't find anything about that on google. Just says the neuro compounds are found in the fruiting bodies and the mycelium. Which is typically the case will all mushroom compounds but the fruiting body is more potent. I only said that companies that grow for their supplements only using mycelium are not only not as potent, but the fact they are growing from mycelium shows they are just growing as fast and cheaply as possible, not to mention what methods that are being used to separate the mycelium from the grain or substrate or what every they are using.


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OfflineGlomus
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: seagu]
    #28381951 - 07/02/23 12:01 AM (6 months, 24 days ago)

I hear you and that seems to be a fair stance, I was really just saying that so that people that don't know they are having a bad reaction to lions mane can stop taking it as to not further their exposure.

Eating peas is one thing, but this is a mushroom that is medicinal and has compounds in it that effect your brain chemistry. This is why drug commercials have a laundry list of possible side effects that they are legally obligated to disclose to all even though those side effects could be extremely rare and affect a very small fraction of people.

As far as the FDA and EPA goes they are absolutely corrupt, not evil, but corrupt no doubt. But they do serve a function. I would go as far as to say the entire US government is corrupt and controlled by the Military industrial complex and pharmaceutical, agriculture and chemical manufacturing corporations.


Edited by Glomus (07/02/23 12:14 AM)


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OfflineGlomus
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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: deadmandave]
    #28381968 - 07/02/23 12:32 AM (6 months, 24 days ago)

Ok I found that erinacines, not hericenones, are found in both the fruiting bodies and mycelium but erinacines was more potent in the mycelium. I also read somewhere that the mycelium is lacking the Hericenones. The fruiting bodies also have 29 times more beta glucans then the mycelium

Another thing that could be worth mentioning is these extracts of mycelium could vary greatly in their process and or quality control. What solvents are being used to extract and what could be coming out with it in the substrates and such. I'd imagine there is profits in cutting those types of corners. Also if the extracts aren't being regularly tested for potency they could vary wildly in concentration of these compounds. Extracts in general, even natural products, are taking something and altering it to a form that would not naturally occur in nature.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21501201003735556


Edited by Glomus (07/03/23 03:54 PM)


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Re: LIONS MANE could be extremely dangerous! [Re: deadmandave]
    #28395255 - 07/14/23 10:41 AM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

deadmandave said:
There is research indicating the mycelium of lions mane is the only part containing the compound (herinaceum?) That improves neurological functioning. Often times the mycelium contains most all of the same components as the mushrooms.





Where is this research? I've heard Stamets defenders talk about it, but I've never seen receipts.

Not that it doesn't exist, I just haven't seen it and am curious.

Do you have a link or know roughly when something like that was published?


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