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Rahz
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The Western Diet 2
#28373407 - 06/24/23 09:15 PM (7 months, 17 hours ago) |
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Why?
I have had a bad diet for much of my life. Currently eating the healthiest I ever have and wondered WTF was I thinking. It's not a whole mystery to me but why the disinterest from society at large?
Perhaps not the most interesting thread and I guess answers will tend towards the stress of modern life, profit over ethics, etc.
So, what's your diet like? How has it changed over time? Have there been factors that either caused your diet to fair worse or compelled you to eat better?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Buster_Brown
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28373596 - 06/25/23 02:15 AM (7 months, 12 hours ago) |
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Dried grains + protein on the hoof are less demanding.
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redgreenvines
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TV dinners used to be a thing, you could eat it while watching others eat it on tv, knowing that this ritual was being followed by millions at the same time.
the power of advertising (essentially fake news) makes for the modern western diet.
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Rahz
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One thing that took a while to get is that not all oils are equal and it goes beyond the saturated/unsaturated issue.
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/americas-most-widely-consumed-cooking-oil-causes-genetic-changes-brain
The profit motive does cause a "shoot first and ask questions later" mentality in the food industry. While I suppose it's unavoidable to some degree, there is reluctance or lack of desire to adjust as new evidence comes to light.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Buster_Brown
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz] 1
#28373739 - 06/25/23 06:32 AM (7 months, 8 hours ago) |
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I put cotton seed oil on my bicycle chain because it had the highest heat rating.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz] 3
#28374040 - 06/25/23 11:53 AM (7 months, 3 hours ago) |
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In the last 8 months or so I've switched to sugar free beverages and reduced my overall sugar intake by maybe 90%. I am also more aware of what a full days calories look like and can easily recognise if I've over eaten during a day, or if I'm relatively within daily limits.
So far I've lost over 12kg without changing my physical routine, although I am generally pretty active in the day to day.
Having pains where my pancreas is a few months ago tempted me to see a gp and get an ultrasound where I was fine but had 5% fatty liver, which in itself isn't bad, but is an indication that the lifestyle of sugary beverages I was enduring didn't have long term benefits. 10-30% can become an issue with fatty liver.
Since then I haven't drunk this year and cut my triglyceride levels from 3.6 to 1.2, and reduced my cholesterol by 20%. I also don't spend as much on groceries nowadays and eat a lot more fruits that I get cheaply from a nearby fruit store.
I still eat roasts weekly and soft drinks regularly but they're all sugar free. I used to eat a bag of lollies in a night, now this week I had one over 4 days or so. Even then, being aware of the amount of calories in a bag of lollies, it's easier not to overeat even if I did have a whole bag of lollies in a day. I don't count my calories, I'm just generally aware of how much I eat and I think it's been an important factor in my recent weight loss.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: sudly] 1
#28374118 - 06/25/23 01:06 PM (7 months, 1 hour ago) |
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That's awesome. My diet is similar, no refined sugar, small amounts of honey, fruits. I'll have 1 slice of good bread sometimes though I tend to eat oatmeal instead (I chef'd up an oat cracker recipe). I've lost 5 kilos in 4 months but also gained muscle. I avoid most dairy except Greek yoghurt, drink almond milk which is the only non-dairy milk I'll touch.
The only added oils are EVOO and avocado (avocado based mayo). Some veggies but not a ton. Eggs, meat, whey protein. I don't count but estimate my protein intake is around 100-125 grams a day.
And yes, working up my own meals has been not just healthier but cheaper.
I don't think beef is unhealthy but when consumed daily it's good to consume with a calcium source and when grilling there's nothing good about charring. Thin cuts/burgers on lower heat cook quickly so there's no need to burn the outside to cook the inside.
I have no idea how many calories I eat daily. The primary loss of calories in my diet has been not eating after dinner unless it's something small like yoghurt with berries. Some people call this intermittent fasting and I wake up feeling great. I used to easily eat 500-1000 calories between 8-12pm.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28374143 - 06/25/23 01:46 PM (7 months, 1 hour ago) |
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I avoid dairy due to a pretty strong lactose intolerance that has developed in the last 3 years or so. Before then I was crushing down choccy milks like no ones business. Lactese tablets help sometimes but that's for a single chocolate bar or so, definitely not for drinking milk, but almond is decent enough with the wheeties.
Mayonaise is very fatty being 90% oil. I don't think there are healthier oils, I mean olive oils are usually blends, and they'll all turn to fat. Like how himilayan salt has no nutritional benefits because you'd need to eat several kilos to get a single vitamin tablets worth of difference from normal table salt. But the colours nice.
I don't think any meats are unhealthy, to me it's more of being aware how much fat I'm eating, and sometimes if I make a pork roast, I don't eat all the crackling, or at least it's portioned with some semblance of moderation.
Sugars turn to fat, oils turn to fat, but it's easier to take in a lot of sugar, and not as easy to drink 500ml of oil, unless you're LA Beast.
Even meat as a calcium source, or milk or beans and whatnot, unless there are vitamin deficiencies I don't think vitamin supplements are useful, amino acids to some extent, but not micronutrients. If you take a blood test and find something sure, but more often than not health claims related to micronutrients appear to be esoteric.
Macronutrients seem easier to balance without excessive sugar intake in my experience.
I don't stress eat as much now that I'm single and have greater independence. I'm not consistently worried about what someone else is thinking/worrying about, or wanting me to do. I'm not catering to the emotional state of a significant other, and at this point that's okay. I don't want to be responsible for the emotional security of another person at the cost of my own true happiness. I've made new friends and had new experiences and I'm not ashamed about it. I've enjoyed a lot of parts of the new path I've walked down, has been a bit of a metaphorical baptism of flames at times, but that's personally contextual and just means I've gone outside of my previous comfort zone for the better.
I don't actively fast or anything, I eat less some mornings than others when I haven't gone shopping or don't make enough time in the morning for breakfast. Sometimes if I feel I over ate one day, I might actively eat less the next.
In the long run I've been consistent, but I don't follow monastic rules.
I think it kind of comes with making a routine, because since I've developed some I'm comfortable with, I don't feel compelled to dissuade myself from them.. but that comes with time and building the inertia of consistency.
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: sudly]
#28374199 - 06/25/23 02:50 PM (7 months, 7 minutes ago) |
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Some oils have a ton of linoleic acid and that's the primary reason I avoid them.
And yep, I don't use a lot of added oil and minimize fat in some areas, fat free cottage cottage cheese and yoghurt, so I'm not overdoing it with meats. I use the mayo for making chicken salad. Just enough to make it palatable.
I don't drink milk either but cottage cheese, yoghurt, occasionally a hard white cheese like parmesan/Romano doesn't bother me.
Typical Western diets rarely have deficiencies. I experiment with supplements but the only one I have high confidence in is creatine.
Finding the right person for a relationship is difficult. If infatuation could be measured on a scale of 1-10, I'll go for a 5 with someone who's a 5 to me. I've met girls who I got along with swimmingly but when the desire level is off kilter in either direction it's always a stress in some form. I enjoy dating with low expectations but my goal in dating is to find someone I want who wants me without too much craziness involved. I don't know what it's like over there in Australia but here in the states white girls seem to have the most mental/emotional problems. I don't have an Asian fetish but my experiences have leaned me heavily in that direction.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28374241 - 06/25/23 03:26 PM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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Saturated and unsaturated fats, I suppose that's a distinction between oils.
I've figured out how to make my poops green, red, purple and fleuro yellow from purely the foods I've eaten, figuring this out was a little shocking at first but made sense as soon as I remembered what foods I recently ate and how much of them I did. In order, food colourings, watermelon, red dragon fruit, and sweet potato. The yellow was a shocker , over a kilo of sweet potatos later and my toilet was hi-vis.
Creatine, glycine and NAC as amino acids make sense to me because they're for antioxidant and muscle building purposes, but I wouldn't say they're dietarily related.
I'm a rather perculiar person who's interested in rather perculiar people and since I've been open and honest about it, I've met some likeminded people I get along with well in person. We also want the same things though, and that's casual ENM relations. Specificity in what you want from a relationship is good. I've talked to people who were interesting, and once they told me they have relationship goals that differed to mine, I let them know I didn't think I was the right guy for them. Recognition of fomo for absolving ambivilance has gone a long way in my life, even outside of intimate relations and into the day to day.
To me, an anxious heart is an orange light, and it usually means I just need to take my time to try and find the words to express what I want to say to the person in a respectful and open way. Was talking to a girl the other day about communicating within intimate relations and I wanted to tell her about an informative experience, but I was struggling to put it into words, so I told her that's what I was doing, and a minute later I said (summarised) people can't talk when they're giving a blowjob and hand communication takes over. but that's just one example. But even then, my anxious heart doesn't flutter as much when I let the butterflies out, because I can tell someone I want to kiss them without expecting to kiss them. It's more like an invitation to communicate and an expression of my intimate desire towards them. I can say it, without necessarily having to act on anything, and the people I've met recently are good at communicating too, so if I went too far they're more than happy to respectfully tell me so, and I really appreciate that kind of communication because it helps to set up awareness of eachothers comfort levels and boundaries.
I'm into nerds and goths for sure. Just confident people in general. Findingly more mature people who at least on the surface have some semblence of their shit together. With self respect and personal boundaries they stand up for and all.
A bit of yellow fever ey, even kink is a wonder to explore, just theoretically. Love language, bdsm etc.
If someone asked me what my fantasies were last year I wouldn't be able to tell them, now I'm aware of over 300 kinky types from feet to slave play, spanking to tears, cradling, words of affirmation, sensory deprivation etc. the list goes on.
Even verbal degredation makes sense to me nowadays because it's only appropriate within the boundaries of private intimacy, well generally, but wherever you and your partner set them.
I am into girls that ask me if I know what the peripheral nervous system is upon sitting down on a first date, but not limited to. Still honing, but enjoying all the while.
P.s. I do not like 1-10 scales
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: sudly] 1
#28374331 - 06/25/23 04:45 PM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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Well no yellow fever. I think in general they just have better childhoods and fewer mental issues. That's an opinion based on experience rather than a fact. I can lean on experience without creating stereotypical beliefs but I think there's some truth to it. I think they tend to be more intelligent as well. College entrance requirements seem to agree. Asians here are also much less likely to be overweight.
There's also a strong component of expectation. I've never talked to a non-white woman who expressed a preference for 6/6/6. In general a beautiful white girl will have higher material expectations than a beautiful non-white girl. I could afford a sports car but I have no desire for one. I've never had a non-white girl express embarrassment over getting in my beater truck.
I don't necessarily like scales but attraction is not always equal and both nature and nurture seem involved.
I'm older than you I think so hot kinky sex isn't the first thing on my mind. One of my best relationships in the last 10 years was with a rock hound and the fact that she enjoyed spending 5 hours at a time looking for rocks was very sexy.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28374338 - 06/25/23 04:50 PM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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And again, if you read the article one of the main concerns is the linoleic acid content (aka omega 6). People use to lean much more on added saturated/animal fats and while it's a complex issue the increase in unsaturated dietary fat from non-traditional sources corresponds to a rise in obesity rates along with various other health issues.
I think dietary trends can lag behind the science a great deal. Many people still avoid eggs due to fear of high cholesterol even years after it's been shown that dietary cholesterol intake isn't a major factor in cholesterol issues.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28374355 - 06/25/23 05:07 PM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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Chinese dumplings with pork and shrimp and portabello mushroom are nice in my soup.
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sudly
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz] 1
#28374359 - 06/25/23 05:10 PM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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Where the rockhounds at?
At this point I actively go into relationships that espouse a distinct lack of expectations, the casual ones.
I went on a date with a white lady a while ago and when it came to paying the bill she said she would pay, I told her I was going to pay for myself anyway, she replied that she wasn't the kind of woman to expect a man to pay on the first date, she then said she'd pay for this one and I could for the next one.
It was nice to hear and didn't feel unbalanced.
Hot kinky sex isn't the first thing on my mind, friendship and company are, and alongside good open communication, if there's chemistry, the later may unfold.
Trans fats have a pretty bad rep.
Is interesting how different cultures tend to lean towards different dietary trends, like the mediterraian, the japanese rice, the italian pasta, the asian vegetable mixes etc. I suppose some of them developed from the historical availability of certain foods.
I don't think there's a lot of contested scientific information on what's in foods, or necessarily what role that stuff inside the food plays within our bodies. But I've heard suggestions even salami can increase the risks of cancer so there are still some uncertainties, but I wouldn't personally highlight there as being a great deal of misunderstanding, or yet to figure out macronutrient long term effects and impacts.
Honestly not sure how some types of butters are alleged to reduce cholestorol, but if one butter has 20% fat, and the other 15%. Continued regular use of the 15% butter would reduce fat intake from butter by 5% and likely reduce cholestorol to some extent, but outside of such an arrangement I don't know yet how it's suggested to happen.
Less sugar, alcohol and improved general awareness of my daily caloric intakes reduced my cholestorol by 20% in 6 months, so I think that's note worthy.
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: sudly]
#28374367 - 06/25/23 05:28 PM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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good work on the cholesterols
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: sudly]
#28374536 - 06/25/23 08:04 PM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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Haha, well that's unusual. I would have asked her the logic behind it but I would be good getting my dinner paid for on the first date. I have hopes without expectations when dating, partly because they're learning opportunities. Even bad dates are still interesting in some way.
I have no issues with most kinks, I'm just not what I would consider kinky, though I'm not exactly conservative. I love licking pussy and getting blow jobs. I've dated girls that have trouble reaching orgasm and have no issues using my fingers to get the job done. If a girl doesn't like french kissing it might be a deal breaker though I have made exceptions. Rockhound girl being one, who had severe anxeity issues, pulled out all her body hair including pubes. She never made her issues my issues though which was part of what made her amazing to me. I think rock hunting was like meditation for her and helped her feel calm.
Trans-fat is one of the first things I realized might be wrong with the American diet. Plenty of evidence it's not healthy and was used in most pre-packaged snack cakes. I don't know if it's changed but I quit eating most carbs from convenient stores after that. I think it's nitrates that makes processed meats bad. I'll eat some bacon but I don't keep it at the house. My step father makes bacon but it's not as good as the store bought stuff.
Anyway yea, cutting out processed sugar and alcohol is a giant step and everything after that is fine tuning. I have a friend who went keto for about a year. I saw him and he was thin, and calm as a cucumber like he had turned into a wise sage. And then he went back to his regular diet and drinking and gained the 50 lbs he had lost.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28374558 - 06/25/23 08:26 PM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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I got us lunch the next time
I wasn't intending to pay for her lunch too, I am romantic because I enjoy it in a natural way, but I'm not very traditional or chivalrous in regard to pulling out chairs, opening doors, or taking off my jumper because she decided not to bring hers.
We were at some markets a while later and she couldn't get reception to pay for some plants so I got them for her because it wasn't a big deal. 10 bucks here or there balances out pretty well when you spend time with a partner in my experience.
I don't mind if someone is anxious or not fully confident to make a move etc, and I appreciate it when they can communicate they feel like that, and having insecurities is completely normal imo, there is a point though I've realised from my previous relationship where insecurities can reach point that there is nothing I can do to help them feel better through listening or consolation. I get that we grow overtime, slowly sometimes, but I am more aware of what it's like when there's not much to any change over the long term.
Not making her issues my issues, and not making 'my issues' her issues was an important part of my decision to be single. And practicing it in a casual manner has worked well so far. Noodling and fossicking can be meditative at times, and exciting upon new discoveries.
I've heard there are some food additives banned in countries like Europe that the US allows..
Quote:
U.S. food additives banned in Europe: Expert says what Americans eat is "almost certainly" making them sick
London — From baguettes to focaccia, Europe is famous for its bread. But there's one ingredient conspicuously missing: Potassium bromate. It's a suspected carcinogen that's banned for human consumption in Europe, China and India, but not in the United States.
In the U.S., the chemical compound is used by some food makers, usually in the form of fine crystals or powder, to strengthen dough. It is estimated to be present in more than 100 products.
"There is evidence that it may be toxic to human consumers, that it may even either initiate or promote the development of tumors," professor Erik Millstone, an expert on food additives at England's University of Sussex, told CBS News. He said European regulators take a much more cautious approach to food safety than their U.S. counterparts.
Asked if it can be said with certainty that differences in regulations mean people in the U.S. have developed cancers that they would not have developed if they'd been eating exclusively in Europe, Millstone said that was "almost certainly the conclusion that we could reach."
It's not just potassium bromate. A range of other chemicals and substances banned in Europe over health concerns are also permitted in the U.S., including Titanium dioxide (also known as E171); Brominated vegetable oil (BVO) (E443); Potassium bromate (E924); Azodicarbonamide (E927a) and Propylparaben (E217).
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-food-additives-banned-europe-making-americans-sick-expert-says/
Quote:
Anyway yea, cutting out processed sugar and alcohol is a giant step and everything after that is fine tuning.

You can jump on any old diet but unless it becomes routine to eat in a less calorie or sugar intensive way, it's likely not going to be long term effective.
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: sudly] 1
#28374761 - 06/26/23 03:06 AM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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Canadian Milk products are terrible. The Milk Board is way too powerful. My wife can eat as much greek style yogurt as she likes in USA with no allergy problems, but in Canada, just coffee cream is acceptable to her (2 tsp per day). Imported milk products are severely restricted here.
Both Canada and USA permit higher percentages of food additive poisons that are not allowed in Europe.
Also medicines, creams and liquids have too much soy - the peanut allergy includes all bean and soy products or contact.
Soy based waxes have found their way into fruit sprays to make them stay fresh longer. It is an ongoing burden to avoid using the epi-pens.
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: sudly]
#28375038 - 06/26/23 09:25 AM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
I don't mind if someone is anxious or not fully confident to make a move etc, and I appreciate it when they can communicate they feel like that, and having insecurities is completely normal imo, there is a point though I've realised from my previous relationship where insecurities can reach point that there is nothing I can do to help them feel better through listening or consolation. I get that we grow overtime, slowly sometimes, but I am more aware of what it's like when there's not much to any change over the long term.
I broke off a LTR last December for the same reason. It's not rare that a man (or woman) will do a lot, put up with a lot, make compromises and make sacrifices to make things work. But when the hope for change dies and they feel like there's no path forward no amount of wanting things to be different will change that.
I don't fault you a bit and it would be problematic to start looking for something serious right away. I appreciate that you're enjoying yourself and exploring.
I like watermelon. Watermelon > candy bar
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28375046 - 06/26/23 09:41 AM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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everything better than candy except sometimes a tiny box of smarties! would you eat the red ones last?
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Rahz
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If I wanted candy I would get a whatchamacallit.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28375116 - 06/26/23 11:23 AM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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who's on first?
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
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RGVs and his beautiful mind is the first on Karls broadcasting services world wide coverage. Billions of viewers.
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Pinkerton]
#28375266 - 06/26/23 01:11 PM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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god is a radio host!
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Pinkerton
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Svetaketu
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28375520 - 06/26/23 04:17 PM (6 months, 29 days ago) |
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My diet has changed pretty drastically. When I was young, I used to get stomach sick a lot. Like it was a almost a weekly thing.
It was very difficult to pinpoint exactly what ingredients would upset me, so I started just avoiding everything pretty much. I slowly started adding stuff back in, and nowadays I avoid all preservatives and chemicals, as it seems like they were upsetting me.
Some preservatives I can eat a good amount of before feeling anything, others I can feel sick within 30min from one small bite.
Now I eat mostly veggies and fruit, a good amount of starch, and a little meat.
I feel like I eat very healthy, and it is cheaper than buying frozen/premade stuff. The drawback is that I spend a good hour or two every day cooking, most people don't have the energy for that much effort, especially if they dislike cooking or are working full time.
Fwiw, I think the anti-fat propaganda is nonsense. Fat is good for you, your brain is mostly fat. Unless you're eating sketty and butter every day, it's pretty hard to eat too much fat; even then, it's mostly the pasta that will fatten you up, as carbohydrates quickly break down into sugar.
Sugar on the other hand, seems directly connected to weight gain. Not only is excess sugar converted more or less directly into fat, it also stimulates your appetite and makes you eat more.
Even zero calorie sweeteners stimulate your appetite, and so they too can lead to weight gain.
I love cooking, and so I like to talk about food and diet choices, but what they say is true, food can be an even touchier subject than religion or politics.
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Svetaketu] 1
#28375748 - 06/26/23 07:40 PM (6 months, 29 days ago) |
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I've read that on keto a person can eat as much as they like.
But my experience with a low carb diet (still over 20g) and increased fat intake was not gaining or loosing weight. It was only when I cut down the carbs and fat that I started to loose.
Fat is healthy. Saturated fat is essential. Also good to be a little hungry if wanting to loose weight.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Svetaketu]
#28376757 - 06/27/23 04:40 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Svetaketu said: My diet has changed pretty drastically. When I was young, I used to get stomach sick a lot. Like it was a almost a weekly thing.
It was very difficult to pinpoint exactly what ingredients would upset me, so I started just avoiding everything pretty much. I slowly started adding stuff back in, and nowadays I avoid all preservatives and chemicals, as it seems like they were upsetting me.
Some preservatives I can eat a good amount of before feeling anything, others I can feel sick within 30min from one small bite.
Now I eat mostly veggies and fruit, a good amount of starch, and a little meat.
I feel like I eat very healthy, and it is cheaper than buying frozen/premade stuff. The drawback is that I spend a good hour or two every day cooking, most people don't have the energy for that much effort, especially if they dislike cooking or are working full time.
Fwiw, I think the anti-fat propaganda is nonsense. Fat is good for you, your brain is mostly fat. Unless you're eating sketty and butter every day, it's pretty hard to eat too much fat; even then, it's mostly the pasta that will fatten you up, as carbohydrates quickly break down into sugar.
Sugar on the other hand, seems directly connected to weight gain. Not only is excess sugar converted more or less directly into fat, it also stimulates your appetite and makes you eat more.
Even zero calorie sweeteners stimulate your appetite, and so they too can lead to weight gain.
I love cooking, and so I like to talk about food and diet choices, but what they say is true, food can be an even touchier subject than religion or politics.
If you love cooking the time involved may not be a big issue. I do not. Both pasta and rice can be kept in the fridge and reheated. A weeks worth of chicken salad can be made with whatever ingredients one likes. I always grill my chicken. Trying to cook it in a pan dries it out. Potatoes with oil in foil on the grill 10 minutes before the meat goes on is a 20 minute meal. Steamed vegetables are quick. Fruit is quick. Sardines (plain in olive oil) are quick, contain almost no mercury and can be eaten as often as one would like. I ad my own mustard.
And I agree about fat. Too many calories is too many calories regardless of whether it's fat or carbs but there is a point to keeping the body in mild ketosis. If a lot of carbs are eaten the body will cut off ketosis and will hold off on using stored fat until blood sugar drops below a threshold which can take a while for a normal person. This could mean lowering metabolism holding out for more carbs (creating carb hunger), which burns less calories (if more carbs are avoided) and a feeling of less energy. That's along with the initial spike in blood sugar that can make a person sleepy which also burns fewer calories. Good to do something physical even if it's just going for a walk after a meal.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28376883 - 06/27/23 06:19 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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I'm starting to think diets are just a food taste preference..
Burning more calories than you put in on a daily basis is key to weight loss no matter what you're eating.
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: sudly]
#28376962 - 06/27/23 07:20 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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That's true about the calorie intake/output. The key is to figure out how to not be hungry. On the keto diet a person can eat as much as they like. The body has a preference for putting on fat with carbs rather than eating a ton of fat so it's self limiting.
Mild ketosis and a high fat diet doesn't work because the calorie count is too high, but from there it's a simple matter to cut down on the fat to the point weight starts to drop.
The thing with carbs is that eating a lot tells the body there's a plentiful source of carbs available. It will want to eat more (hungry) once the stomach starts to empty even though there's still plenty of sugar in the bloodstream.
Low carb/mild ketosis tells the body there's not a plentiful source of carbs available so the body quits demanding it, quits being so hungry.
Basically all things in moderation.
Edited by Rahz (06/27/23 07:45 PM)
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28377060 - 06/27/23 08:18 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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And while I don't understand the mechanism there's something special about fruit. If I eat an apple I'm good, 50 calories. If I buy a large bag of popcorn or make a bowl of pasta I can eat it all, around 800 calories before I'm satiated.
Something my step dad said once, nobody ever got fat eating apples.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Svetaketu
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz] 1
#28377659 - 06/28/23 11:08 AM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: If you love cooking the time involved may not be a big issue. I do not. Both pasta and rice can be kept in the fridge and reheated. A weeks worth of chicken salad can be made with whatever ingredients one likes. I always grill my chicken. Trying to cook it in a pan dries it out. Potatoes with oil in foil on the grill 10 minutes before the meat goes on is a 20 minute meal. Steamed vegetables are quick. Fruit is quick. Sardines (plain in olive oil) are quick, contain almost no mercury and can be eaten as often as one would like. I ad my own mustard.
For sure, there are a lot of options if you don't want to spend a long time cooking, it's mostly about what you want to eat. Your gut biome will also start to grow based on what you eat, and you will start to crave things it wants.
Personally, I don't like eating very much protein. When I eat it more than 2-3 times a week, I get this funny feeling in my gut like "no more protein please". I definitely spend extra time cooking because I like to cook elaborate vegetarian meals.
For example, I like to make this asian style stir-fry. I consider it one of the simpler veggie meals I make, but the little things add up quick. A lot of time is spent just cleaning/prepping. An average mix would have like; garlic, ginger, onion, mushroom, jalapeno, habanero, cabbage, broccoli, and egg. Then I make rice, and a sauce out of vinegar, garlic, ginger, soy sauce, honey and sesame oil.
If I'm in a hurry, I could probably crank that out in 45min. But realistically, I like to cook slow; get high, chat with whoever is around. That makes it more like an hour and a half kind of thing.
Quote:
And I agree about fat. Too many calories is too many calories regardless of whether it's fat or carbs but there is a point to keeping the body in mild ketosis. If a lot of carbs are eaten the body will cut off ketosis and will hold off on using stored fat until blood sugar drops below a threshold which can take a while for a normal person. This could mean lowering metabolism holding out for more carbs (creating carb hunger), which burns less calories (if more carbs are avoided) and a feeling of less energy. That's along with the initial spike in blood sugar that can make a person sleepy which also burns fewer calories. Good to do something physical even if it's just going for a walk after a meal.
Yeah, I could use more ketosis in my life. I eat too many potatoes
If the goal is weight loss, I think it's helpful to think about how quickly the energy in the food can be accessed.
Something like an apple has a lot of fiber, so despite the sugar and calories, it takes a while for your stomach to break it down. You couldn't possibly get fat from apples, 10 apples is so much fiber you'd go into a food coma to digest it.
Compared to say, apple juice, which doesn't even need to be broken down, it's basically pure sugar. You could drink 10 apples worth of sugar and calories easily. Your body can't possibly use that much sugar in that amount of time, and so it stores it as fat.
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Svetaketu]
#28377717 - 06/28/23 11:57 AM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
But realistically, I like to cook slow; get high, chat with whoever is around.
Well that's pretty cool.
Quote:
Something like an apple has a lot of fiber, so despite the sugar and calories, it takes a while for your stomach to break it down.
That is true but a big bag of popcorn has a lot of fiber too. Maybe apple has more insoluble fiber? I'm not really sure but I think fruit is good whatever the reason.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Svetaketu
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28377762 - 06/28/23 12:23 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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Yeah fruit definitely has some magic to it, not sure exactly what it is.
Just imagining dropping different foods into acid hah.
The density of an apple vs popcorn might be part of it? But the fact that everything gets chewed into a paste beforehand makes it a bit confusing.
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Svetaketu]
#28377797 - 06/28/23 12:52 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Svetaketu said: Yeah fruit definitely has some magic to it, not sure exactly what it is. ...
neat packets of water bursting in mouth!
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CreonAntigone
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Svetaketu]
#28377851 - 06/28/23 01:46 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Svetaketu said: Yeah fruit definitely has some magic to it, not sure exactly what it is.
Fruits are little facroties of some natural medicines. Apples for example contain 4.4mg quercetin, an anti-inflammatory, neural modulator and - as has been studied in some cases - natural antidepressant.
The anti-inflammatory compounds found in fruit, flavanoids and terpenes, often interact with neurotransmitters in a way that can help chronic health conditions.
Usually the effective dose needed is more than what is found in one fruit - and so the medicinal effect can be imagined as occuring from having small amounts over time, with effectiveness building up. So though studies find you'll need at least 30mg or more of quercetin to have a substantial impact, eating an apple gives you a little something of what you need, and can help minimize one's need to user stronger, harsher drugs.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Sometimes all you need is a pork belly bacon baguette 
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: sudly]
#28378558 - 06/29/23 04:00 AM (6 months, 27 days ago) |
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-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Rahz
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https://theconversation.com/your-brain-on-sugar-what-the-science-actually-says-126581
Sugar and refined carbs temporarily negate the effects of cortisol (stress) with dopamine.
So perhaps it's not excess sugar/carbs, but excess stress that is the root cause of the Western diet?
Excess cortisol can cause poor sleep and fatigue, angry feelings, and various physiological issues. It can all be temporarily fixed with a candy bar and soda, or a couple rolls to go with the side of mac and cheese with a soda or sweet tea. A side of chips and soda to go with the sandwich.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28379869 - 06/30/23 07:25 AM (6 months, 26 days ago) |
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hard to chicken and egg the whole McDonalds and Nestle empires - what caused what, but the whole basis of our economy (and freemarket diet) deserves some fresh eyes https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/business/neoliberalism-free-market-research.html
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Yeetusdeetus


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I think one of the bigger problems of processed foods and especially simple carbs is that while they can negate stress for a little while, they create a surge of feel good neurotransmitters. Then when the time rolls around tomorrow when you’re normally experiencing life stress you’re also experiencing what are effectively “withdrawal” stress on top of whatever else is bugging you which makes way more likely to “use”.
Obviously there’s all the microbiome stuff that makes it all way more complicated. Which is why CICO is such a destructive mindset imo. Many believe you can eat 2000 calories in bread and soda and still be as healthy as someone who eats the same caloric amount in veg and meat
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CreonAntigone
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: hard to chicken and egg the whole McDonalds and Nestle empires - what caused what, but the whole basis of our economy (and freemarket diet) deserves some fresh eyes https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/business/neoliberalism-free-market-research.html
Meat is not inherently bad, but when we treat our animals this way, I can't imagine they're very good to eat.
One can get sick just looking at it, and MOST meat is made this way. Can eating a very sick animal really promote health?
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Joh.Ke
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Quote:
CreonAntigone said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: hard to chicken and egg the whole McDonalds and Nestle empires - what caused what, but the whole basis of our economy (and freemarket diet) deserves some fresh eyes https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/business/neoliberalism-free-market-research.html
Meat is not inherently bad, but when we treat our animals this way, I can't imagine they're very good to eat.
One can get sick just looking at it, and MOST meat is made this way. Can eating a very sick animal really promote health?
Well, to be the devil's advocate: we all gag at the thought of eating an animal that has died from cancer, and especially gross is the thought of eating its lump of cancerous growth. However, once you cook that lump properly, it really is not that different from healthy cooked flesh, right? I mean they are both protein. I think it's purely down to the psychological factor.
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Moses_Davidson
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Joh.Ke]
#28384255 - 07/03/23 10:35 PM (6 months, 22 days ago) |
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I ate 95% raw vegan for a couple of years and felt so vigorous and healthy it was addictive. 5% of the time I would backslide and devour some Mexican food or pizza and I could nearly instantly feel the inflammation. These days I eat about 50% raw vegan, 30% low carb, and about 10% complete junk. I wish I had the self control to eat all raw again. It physically felt so good to eat that way.
-------------------- "In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill "The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose." J.B.S. Haldane "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." Mark Twain
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CreonAntigone
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Joh.Ke]
#28384363 - 07/04/23 03:14 AM (6 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Joh.Ke said:
Quote:
CreonAntigone said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: hard to chicken and egg the whole McDonalds and Nestle empires - what caused what, but the whole basis of our economy (and freemarket diet) deserves some fresh eyes https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/business/neoliberalism-free-market-research.html
Meat is not inherently bad, but when we treat our animals this way, I can't imagine they're very good to eat.
One can get sick just looking at it, and MOST meat is made this way. Can eating a very sick animal really promote health?
Well, to be the devil's advocate: we all gag at the thought of eating an animal that has died from cancer, and especially gross is the thought of eating its lump of cancerous growth. However, once you cook that lump properly, it really is not that different from healthy cooked flesh, right? I mean they are both protein. I think it's purely down to the psychological factor.
It's food yes, edible, but is it good food?
An animal that has been chronically stressed will have a lot of stress hormones in their blood, they will be inflamed and have weak muscle development. Very likely it won't taste as good. There's something to that concept of Japanese kobe beef about treating the animal well to taste better.
Will it make a person sick? I don't know if it'd do that. I'm sure it would still be an OK source of protein. But I suspect that due to the stress markers in the blood of the cows, the meat will have less nutrition and less essential minerals - a deprived cow would make meat that might also be deprived. If the meat was, let's say, just 10% less nutritious (from lack of minerals), multiplying that on the scale of the global food chain and you actually would see some effect on population health.
I'm just making a theory and would be receptive to people showing me evidence against this idea. Someone could show me a study saying that meat from stressed animals is just as good as meat from non-stressed animals - but I really think that is unlikely, as it goes against good sense. The products of healthy animals should be healtier.
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redgreenvines
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NYT had a feature on BarbeQ today, Man I could use some ribs, or burnt chicken... would love some barbQ sardines too
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28384653 - 07/04/23 10:27 AM (6 months, 22 days ago) |
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Plant based foods have reached a near religious glorification. Anyone who is skeptical regarding the claim of universal health benefits of eating plants is often vilified as a dangerous ignorant kook.
Yet many people have experienced significant health benefits by eliminating most or all plant products from their diet. Plants considered "superfoods", such as spinach, can cause health problems due to toxic phytochemicals (oxalate)
I've struggled with gut problems for 40 years and have tried many approaches to eating. Recently I've tried eliminating vegetables from my diet and have noticed the most significant improvements I've ever experienced. I learned a year ago that eliminating greens was very helpful for me, but now cutting out all plant-based foods really has made a dramatic improvement. It's amazing.
Maybe we should stop glorifying plants as perfect wonderful foods for everyone?
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Rahz
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I am aware of oxalates. Whether they should be cut out entirely or moderated is something each person should figure out for themselves. I don't eat a lot of vegetables currently. Carrots and celery mostly.
I do have a gallon of vegetables fermenting in a jar right now. I'm going to be experimenting with that over the next week. Most cultures have a history of fermenting foods/vegetables.
Broccoli, Cauliflower, Radish, Carrot, little bit of ginger and garlic. 2% salt by weight in water. It's been going for 3 days now which is the recommended time. Tastes okay but I think I will add some balsamic vinegar and pepper to spice it up a little.
You are straight carnivore at the moment? Fungi still in the mix?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Joh.Ke
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Quote:
CreonAntigone said:
Quote:
Joh.Ke said:
Well, to be the devil's advocate: we all gag at the thought of eating an animal that has died from cancer, and especially gross is the thought of eating its lump of cancerous growth. However, once you cook that lump properly, it really is not that different from healthy cooked flesh, right? I mean they are both protein. I think it's purely down to the psychological factor.
Will it make a person sick? I don't know if it'd do that. I'm sure it would still be an OK source of protein. But I suspect that due to the stress markers in the blood of the cows, the meat will have less nutrition and less essential minerals - a deprived cow would make meat that might also be deprived. If the meat was, let's say, just 10% less nutritious (from lack of minerals), multiplying that on the scale of the global food chain and you actually would see some effect on population health.
That makes sense. I didn't think of this before.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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I know that a lot of vegans cite reducing suffering as a cause for their dietary preferences, by id argue that insects suffer too and that spraying them with pesticide causes a lot of suffering. But even more than mammals due to the sheer number of insects killed for agricultural purposes.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: sudly]
#28384877 - 07/04/23 01:52 PM (6 months, 22 days ago) |
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the diner suffers in his or her own imagination the frenzied feelings of the fatal fate of food fauna. whether it was a big thing to the animal, or the big thing or no big thing to the animal is not important, what is important is how the diner feels as they contemplate death of the individual creatures who will never grow up to be president or scholars or even basement cleaners, cut down in their prime as it were and converted to mere menu items, much of which is just tossed as waste.
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Moses_Davidson
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: I learned a year ago that eliminating greens was very helpful for me, but now cutting out all plant-based foods really has made a dramatic improvement. It's amazing.
Maybe we should stop glorifying plants as perfect wonderful foods for everyone?
-------------------- "In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill "The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose." J.B.S. Haldane "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." Mark Twain
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CreonAntigone
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: the diner suffers in his or her own imagination the frenzied feelings of the fatal fate of food fauna. whether it was a big thing to the animal, or the big thing or no big thing to the animal is not important, what is important is how the diner feels as they contemplate death of the individual creatures who will never grow up to be president or scholars or even basement cleaners, cut down in their prime as it were and converted to mere menu items, much of which is just tossed as waste.
This reminds me of a certain tech billionaire, Zuckerberg, who decided to go a year only eating meat he killed himself. And as much as I don't respect the man, I do respect the reason he went about this, to better investigate the animal behind the food.
He says, surprisingly insightfully (given who he is):
Quote:
This year, my personal challenge is around being thankful for the food I have to eat. I think many people forget that a living being has to die for you to eat meat, so my goal revolves around not letting myself forget that and being thankful for what I have. This year I've basically become a vegetarian since the only meat I'm eating is from animals I've killed myself. So far, this has been a good experience. I'm eating a lot healthier foods and I've learned a lot about sustainable farming and raising of animals.
I started thinking about this last year when I had a pig roast at my house. A bunch of people told me that even though they loved eating pork, they really didn't want to think about the fact that the pig used to be alive. That just seemed irresponsible to me. I don't have an issue with anything people choose to eat, but I do think they should take responsibility and be thankful for what they eat rather than trying to ignore where it came from.
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28385953 - 07/05/23 01:18 PM (6 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
You are straight carnivore at the moment?
I'm about 90% meat 10% plant-based foods. There are interesting stories on YT by people and doctors who have eaten no plant-based foods for 10 to 20 years. Complete with blood & health analysis. Lots of info to sift thru, I doubt we will ever see anyone who has only eaten meat for two decades interviewed on CBS 60 Minutes, NBC Dateline, or a 20/20 episode about heart health. It will never happen, right? If they covered the subject, they would portray the practice as ignorant and dangerous.
The most impressive change I've experienced since eliminating vegetables is that my constipation is gone. I've heard my whole life we need plant fiber to help us crap, yet many people find the opposite to be true. I don't mean to imply it's for everyone, but with many millions suffering with digestive problems, it's wise to explore options. I was super skeptical and noticed changes in a day and a half. Vegetables can cause bloating and constipation for some folks.
Quote:
CreonAntigone said:
But I suspect that due to the stress markers in the blood of the cows, the meat will have less nutrition and less essential minerals
When a pack of hyenas chase down a zebra, antelope, or wildebeest, do you think the animal is less nutritious than being killed instantly by a hunter with a gun? I've heard of adrenaline but not "stress marker". What is that?
- Moses Davidson -
JP is always funny! As I explore dietary regimes that exclude plant-based foods, I don't see people who have positive health results acting like many vegans do. Sometimes (often?) vegans approach their lifestyle choice as something between a religion and a militaristic movement which must be embraced in order to save the planet. Meat has really been demonized. Animal fat being bad for you and some of the theories about cholesterol are ideas that have been used to push beliefs that aren't based in science and/or are a gross distortion of the evidence.
Interesting studies of meat-centric diets of some Eskimo and African cultures.
They don't suffer the numerous health problems of people eating the Western diet.
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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that makes me think I should be a billionaire too
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Rahz
Alive Again



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Quote:
It will never happen, right?
I wouldn't bet on it. Eating ze bugs has been in the news though.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28385995 - 07/05/23 01:55 PM (6 months, 21 days ago) |
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shrimp are bugs Yummy
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28386006 - 07/05/23 02:02 PM (6 months, 21 days ago) |
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Eating insects doesn't threaten the plant-based narrative that we've had shoved down our throats for decades. Eating insects is seen as way to avoid eating meat, so it actually falls right in line with the goal of reducing or eliminating meat from your diet.
If media has refused to address this issue so far, why would anyone think they would change?
And they claim they "follow the science"
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Rahz
Alive Again



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I sometimes ask people if unsaturated fat is healthy or unhealthy. As often as not they answer unhealthy.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28386035 - 07/05/23 02:41 PM (6 months, 21 days ago) |
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people
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
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8 billion of them.
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Rahz
Alive Again



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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Pinkerton]
#28386058 - 07/05/23 03:07 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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About half. At least two thirds.
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Joh.Ke
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: sudly]
#28386060 - 07/05/23 03:08 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: I know that a lot of vegans cite reducing suffering as a cause for their dietary preferences, by id argue that insects suffer too and that spraying them with pesticide causes a lot of suffering. But even more than mammals due to the sheer number of insects killed for agricultural purposes.
I don't think insects suffer in the same way that animals do. They don't really have a brain to perceive pain.
Edited by Joh.Ke (07/05/23 03:19 PM)
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Joh.Ke]
#28386286 - 07/05/23 06:04 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401
"Conclusions High LDL-C is inversely associated with mortality in most people over 60 years. This finding is inconsistent with the cholesterol hypothesis (ie, that cholesterol, particularly LDL-C, is inherently atherogenic). Since elderly people with high LDL-C live as long or longer than those with low LDL-C, our analysis provides reason to question the validity of the cholesterol hypothesis. Moreover, our study provides the rationale for a re-evaluation of guidelines recommending pharmacological reduction of LDL-C in the elderly as a component of cardiovascular disease prevention strategies."
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28386292 - 07/05/23 06:06 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/91/3/535/4597110?login=false
"Conclusions: A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat."
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28386294 - 07/05/23 06:07 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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https://www.bmj.com/content/353/bmj.i1246.full.pdf+html
"Conclusions: Available evidence from randomized controlled trials shows that replacement of saturated fat in the diet with linoleic acid effectively lowers serum cholesterol but does not support the hypothesis that this translates to a lower risk of death from coronary heart disease or all causes. Findings from the Minnesota Coronary Experiment add to growing evidence that incomplete publication has contributed to overestimation of the benefits of replacing saturated fat with vegetable oils rich in linoleic acid."
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28386295 - 07/05/23 06:08 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-011-2204-7
"Conclusions/interpretation Normalisation of both beta cell function and hepatic insulin sensitivity in type 2 diabetes was achieved by dietary energy restriction alone. This was associated with decreased pancreatic and liver triacylglycerol stores. The abnormalities underlying type 2 diabetes are reversible by reducing dietary energy intake."
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28386349 - 07/05/23 07:51 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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So I should watch the triglycerides (keep sugar down - and baked goods and alcohol) and stop worrying about cholesterol?
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sudly
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Eat more butter? 
I do wonder for those who advocate for more minerals etc in their diet, or vitamin supplements, why not recommend offal? It's full of micronutrients.
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28386730 - 07/06/23 05:10 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Great topic!
I used to eat a lot of Fast Food. Sometimes even twice a day, for days on end. Lots of pizzas too. Then I realized how much money I was spending on fast food! Way too much. I quickly started getting it occasionally. This year, I have a new job but it doesnt pay as much as my previous ones. Now i get Fast Food maybe once or twice a month. Lately I eat a mix of chips, cookies, TV dinners, trail mix, dried fruit, and simple sandwiches. Ive lost probably 25 pounds in the past 3 months. I feel healthier than ever! Restricting my calorie intake due to money constraints has done wonders for my overall health, in my opinion.
I do miss all those tasty burgers, pizzas, gyros and burritos. But nowadays, Im happy just to have something to eat that doesn't cost very much and still tastes decent.
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Pinkerton
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28386733 - 07/06/23 05:14 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: About half. At least two thirds.
Oh ya, only adults. Now that is many puppets regardless.
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Rahz
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Yes, watch the sugar and use oils with lower level of omega 6.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28386890 - 07/06/23 09:22 AM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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olive oil it is
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Rahz
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Vitamin Deficiencies in the Western Diet
https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/micronutrient-inadequacies/overview
"94.3% of the US population do not meet the daily requirement for vitamin D, 88.5% for vitamin E, 52.2% for magnesium, 44.1% for calcium, 43.0% for vitamin A, and 38.9% for vitamin C. For the nutrients in which a requirement has not been set, 100% of the population had intakes lower than the AI for potassium, 91.7% for choline, and 66.9% for vitamin K. The prevalence of inadequacies was low for all of the B vitamins and several minerals, including copper, iron, phosphorus, selenium, sodium, and zinc"
Simply trying to eat better will fix some of these issues.
15 minutes of sun per day will boost vitamin D.
Various nuts (especially almonds) will boost vitamin E.
Fruit obviously will boost vitamin C.
Many foods contain magnesium but will be difficult to get an adequate supply from a single food. Research to incorporate various foods with notable Mg levels could be useful.
Oranges are especially high in calcium. Various greens contain calcium. Especially collard greens which are also an excellent source of vitamin K.
Beef, liver, chicken, eggs, all good sources of choline.
Ditch your sodium chloride for a 50/50 mix of sodium/potassium. Decreases sodium intake and increases potassium intake. Easy.
Etc. etc.
A little research done over time can slowly adjust your diet in a healthy direction by adding foods you enjoy eating.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28390039 - 07/09/23 07:16 AM (6 months, 17 days ago) |
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frozen organic blueberries !!!!
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Rahz
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Yes! Blueberries are an excellent way to get antioxidants and low GI. Blackberries, raspberries, strawberries, etc. are also included in that list. Not everyone like unsweet tea but I can drink a lot of orange/black. Green tea bothers my stomach, don't touch the stuff.
Kale and cabbage are also high in antioxidants. I tend to shy away from cruciferous vegetables but some people tolerate them better.
My fermentation experiment has not gone great. I'm going to ditch the broccoli and cauliflower and try just carrots, maybe some peppers. I read good things about cruciferous vegetables and over the years I've tried repeatedly to incorporate them but it never lasts.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28390066 - 07/09/23 07:49 AM (6 months, 17 days ago) |
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I take rapini stems that my wife discarded and I peel them and cut into my hot breakfast
I think it is cruciferous
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Svetaketu
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I like kale, but you gotta prep it right. My favorite way is just cut really thin for a fresh salad, with carrots, quinoa, a little onion, and a dressing out of soy sauce, mirin, honey, and sesame oil.
If the pieces are too big it's like eating little bits of paper but it's great if you cut them in really fine strips across the stem.
Sauerkraut is a great way to make cabbage a little more interesting, and it is extremely easy to make.
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: frozen organic blueberries !!!!
hey redgreenvines hope you are well have good trips
i want to buy organic blueberries, do i have to freeze them or if i buy them at room temperature is that not necessary?
your good friend ferdinando
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redgreenvines
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they seem to be sold frozen - they are great.
using 1/3 gm of APE very light but nice effects - slightly over micro.
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Yeetusdeetus


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I’d also add that due to the prioritization of yield over nutrition many crops are actually lower in certain nutes. I think most people would benefit from a magnesium supplement. Although only around 1% of mag is stored in blood if levels stay low chronically the body will take mag from bones and other tissue leading to more problems down the road
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Rahz
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Difficult to quantify but good point. It's remarkable that Mg is a common deficiency in the Western diet considering how fond we are of bread.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28390471 - 07/09/23 03:20 PM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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Inadequacies in daily intake aren't deficiencies. So the benefits are debatable as symptoms of inadequacy can be difficult to clinically determine.
Quote:
Primarily affecting the developing world, micronutrient deficiencies are rare, but not absent, in populations residing in industrialized nations.
However, micronutrient inadequacies — defined as nutrient intake less than the EAR — are common in the United States and other developed countries. Such inadequacies may occur when micronutrient intake is above the level associated with deficiency but below dietary intake recommendations (17). In contrast to micronutrient deficiencies that result in clinically overt symptoms, micronutrient inadequacies may cause covert symptoms only that are difficult to detect clinically.
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