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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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If I wanted candy I would get a whatchamacallit.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28375116 - 06/26/23 11:23 AM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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who's on first?
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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RGVs and his beautiful mind is the first on Karls broadcasting services world wide coverage. Billions of viewers.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Pinkerton]
#28375266 - 06/26/23 01:11 PM (6 months, 30 days ago) |
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god is a radio host!
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑


Registered: 10/08/15
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Loc: United States
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28375520 - 06/26/23 04:17 PM (6 months, 29 days ago) |
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My diet has changed pretty drastically. When I was young, I used to get stomach sick a lot. Like it was a almost a weekly thing.
It was very difficult to pinpoint exactly what ingredients would upset me, so I started just avoiding everything pretty much. I slowly started adding stuff back in, and nowadays I avoid all preservatives and chemicals, as it seems like they were upsetting me.
Some preservatives I can eat a good amount of before feeling anything, others I can feel sick within 30min from one small bite.
Now I eat mostly veggies and fruit, a good amount of starch, and a little meat.
I feel like I eat very healthy, and it is cheaper than buying frozen/premade stuff. The drawback is that I spend a good hour or two every day cooking, most people don't have the energy for that much effort, especially if they dislike cooking or are working full time.
Fwiw, I think the anti-fat propaganda is nonsense. Fat is good for you, your brain is mostly fat. Unless you're eating sketty and butter every day, it's pretty hard to eat too much fat; even then, it's mostly the pasta that will fatten you up, as carbohydrates quickly break down into sugar.
Sugar on the other hand, seems directly connected to weight gain. Not only is excess sugar converted more or less directly into fat, it also stimulates your appetite and makes you eat more.
Even zero calorie sweeteners stimulate your appetite, and so they too can lead to weight gain.
I love cooking, and so I like to talk about food and diet choices, but what they say is true, food can be an even touchier subject than religion or politics.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Svetaketu] 1
#28375748 - 06/26/23 07:40 PM (6 months, 29 days ago) |
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I've read that on keto a person can eat as much as they like.
But my experience with a low carb diet (still over 20g) and increased fat intake was not gaining or loosing weight. It was only when I cut down the carbs and fat that I started to loose.
Fat is healthy. Saturated fat is essential. Also good to be a little hungry if wanting to loose weight.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Svetaketu]
#28376757 - 06/27/23 04:40 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Svetaketu said: My diet has changed pretty drastically. When I was young, I used to get stomach sick a lot. Like it was a almost a weekly thing.
It was very difficult to pinpoint exactly what ingredients would upset me, so I started just avoiding everything pretty much. I slowly started adding stuff back in, and nowadays I avoid all preservatives and chemicals, as it seems like they were upsetting me.
Some preservatives I can eat a good amount of before feeling anything, others I can feel sick within 30min from one small bite.
Now I eat mostly veggies and fruit, a good amount of starch, and a little meat.
I feel like I eat very healthy, and it is cheaper than buying frozen/premade stuff. The drawback is that I spend a good hour or two every day cooking, most people don't have the energy for that much effort, especially if they dislike cooking or are working full time.
Fwiw, I think the anti-fat propaganda is nonsense. Fat is good for you, your brain is mostly fat. Unless you're eating sketty and butter every day, it's pretty hard to eat too much fat; even then, it's mostly the pasta that will fatten you up, as carbohydrates quickly break down into sugar.
Sugar on the other hand, seems directly connected to weight gain. Not only is excess sugar converted more or less directly into fat, it also stimulates your appetite and makes you eat more.
Even zero calorie sweeteners stimulate your appetite, and so they too can lead to weight gain.
I love cooking, and so I like to talk about food and diet choices, but what they say is true, food can be an even touchier subject than religion or politics.
If you love cooking the time involved may not be a big issue. I do not. Both pasta and rice can be kept in the fridge and reheated. A weeks worth of chicken salad can be made with whatever ingredients one likes. I always grill my chicken. Trying to cook it in a pan dries it out. Potatoes with oil in foil on the grill 10 minutes before the meat goes on is a 20 minute meal. Steamed vegetables are quick. Fruit is quick. Sardines (plain in olive oil) are quick, contain almost no mercury and can be eaten as often as one would like. I ad my own mustard.
And I agree about fat. Too many calories is too many calories regardless of whether it's fat or carbs but there is a point to keeping the body in mild ketosis. If a lot of carbs are eaten the body will cut off ketosis and will hold off on using stored fat until blood sugar drops below a threshold which can take a while for a normal person. This could mean lowering metabolism holding out for more carbs (creating carb hunger), which burns less calories (if more carbs are avoided) and a feeling of less energy. That's along with the initial spike in blood sugar that can make a person sleepy which also burns fewer calories. Good to do something physical even if it's just going for a walk after a meal.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28376883 - 06/27/23 06:19 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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I'm starting to think diets are just a food taste preference..
Burning more calories than you put in on a daily basis is key to weight loss no matter what you're eating.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: sudly]
#28376962 - 06/27/23 07:20 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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That's true about the calorie intake/output. The key is to figure out how to not be hungry. On the keto diet a person can eat as much as they like. The body has a preference for putting on fat with carbs rather than eating a ton of fat so it's self limiting.
Mild ketosis and a high fat diet doesn't work because the calorie count is too high, but from there it's a simple matter to cut down on the fat to the point weight starts to drop.
The thing with carbs is that eating a lot tells the body there's a plentiful source of carbs available. It will want to eat more (hungry) once the stomach starts to empty even though there's still plenty of sugar in the bloodstream.
Low carb/mild ketosis tells the body there's not a plentiful source of carbs available so the body quits demanding it, quits being so hungry.
Basically all things in moderation.
Edited by Rahz (06/27/23 07:45 PM)
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28377060 - 06/27/23 08:18 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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And while I don't understand the mechanism there's something special about fruit. If I eat an apple I'm good, 50 calories. If I buy a large bag of popcorn or make a bowl of pasta I can eat it all, around 800 calories before I'm satiated.
Something my step dad said once, nobody ever got fat eating apples.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑


Registered: 10/08/15
Posts: 1,508
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz] 1
#28377659 - 06/28/23 11:08 AM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: If you love cooking the time involved may not be a big issue. I do not. Both pasta and rice can be kept in the fridge and reheated. A weeks worth of chicken salad can be made with whatever ingredients one likes. I always grill my chicken. Trying to cook it in a pan dries it out. Potatoes with oil in foil on the grill 10 minutes before the meat goes on is a 20 minute meal. Steamed vegetables are quick. Fruit is quick. Sardines (plain in olive oil) are quick, contain almost no mercury and can be eaten as often as one would like. I ad my own mustard.
For sure, there are a lot of options if you don't want to spend a long time cooking, it's mostly about what you want to eat. Your gut biome will also start to grow based on what you eat, and you will start to crave things it wants.
Personally, I don't like eating very much protein. When I eat it more than 2-3 times a week, I get this funny feeling in my gut like "no more protein please". I definitely spend extra time cooking because I like to cook elaborate vegetarian meals.
For example, I like to make this asian style stir-fry. I consider it one of the simpler veggie meals I make, but the little things add up quick. A lot of time is spent just cleaning/prepping. An average mix would have like; garlic, ginger, onion, mushroom, jalapeno, habanero, cabbage, broccoli, and egg. Then I make rice, and a sauce out of vinegar, garlic, ginger, soy sauce, honey and sesame oil.
If I'm in a hurry, I could probably crank that out in 45min. But realistically, I like to cook slow; get high, chat with whoever is around. That makes it more like an hour and a half kind of thing.
Quote:
And I agree about fat. Too many calories is too many calories regardless of whether it's fat or carbs but there is a point to keeping the body in mild ketosis. If a lot of carbs are eaten the body will cut off ketosis and will hold off on using stored fat until blood sugar drops below a threshold which can take a while for a normal person. This could mean lowering metabolism holding out for more carbs (creating carb hunger), which burns less calories (if more carbs are avoided) and a feeling of less energy. That's along with the initial spike in blood sugar that can make a person sleepy which also burns fewer calories. Good to do something physical even if it's just going for a walk after a meal.
Yeah, I could use more ketosis in my life. I eat too many potatoes
If the goal is weight loss, I think it's helpful to think about how quickly the energy in the food can be accessed.
Something like an apple has a lot of fiber, so despite the sugar and calories, it takes a while for your stomach to break it down. You couldn't possibly get fat from apples, 10 apples is so much fiber you'd go into a food coma to digest it.
Compared to say, apple juice, which doesn't even need to be broken down, it's basically pure sugar. You could drink 10 apples worth of sugar and calories easily. Your body can't possibly use that much sugar in that amount of time, and so it stores it as fat.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Svetaketu]
#28377717 - 06/28/23 11:57 AM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
But realistically, I like to cook slow; get high, chat with whoever is around.
Well that's pretty cool.
Quote:
Something like an apple has a lot of fiber, so despite the sugar and calories, it takes a while for your stomach to break it down.
That is true but a big bag of popcorn has a lot of fiber too. Maybe apple has more insoluble fiber? I'm not really sure but I think fruit is good whatever the reason.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑


Registered: 10/08/15
Posts: 1,508
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28377762 - 06/28/23 12:23 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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Yeah fruit definitely has some magic to it, not sure exactly what it is.
Just imagining dropping different foods into acid hah.
The density of an apple vs popcorn might be part of it? But the fact that everything gets chewed into a paste beforehand makes it a bit confusing.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Svetaketu]
#28377797 - 06/28/23 12:52 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Svetaketu said: Yeah fruit definitely has some magic to it, not sure exactly what it is. ...
neat packets of water bursting in mouth!
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CreonAntigone
Stranger

Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Svetaketu]
#28377851 - 06/28/23 01:46 PM (6 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Svetaketu said: Yeah fruit definitely has some magic to it, not sure exactly what it is.
Fruits are little facroties of some natural medicines. Apples for example contain 4.4mg quercetin, an anti-inflammatory, neural modulator and - as has been studied in some cases - natural antidepressant.
The anti-inflammatory compounds found in fruit, flavanoids and terpenes, often interact with neurotransmitters in a way that can help chronic health conditions.
Usually the effective dose needed is more than what is found in one fruit - and so the medicinal effect can be imagined as occuring from having small amounts over time, with effectiveness building up. So though studies find you'll need at least 30mg or more of quercetin to have a substantial impact, eating an apple gives you a little something of what you need, and can help minimize one's need to user stronger, harsher drugs.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Sometimes all you need is a pork belly bacon baguette 
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: sudly]
#28378558 - 06/29/23 04:00 AM (6 months, 27 days ago) |
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-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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https://theconversation.com/your-brain-on-sugar-what-the-science-actually-says-126581
Sugar and refined carbs temporarily negate the effects of cortisol (stress) with dopamine.
So perhaps it's not excess sugar/carbs, but excess stress that is the root cause of the Western diet?
Excess cortisol can cause poor sleep and fatigue, angry feelings, and various physiological issues. It can all be temporarily fixed with a candy bar and soda, or a couple rolls to go with the side of mac and cheese with a soda or sweet tea. A side of chips and soda to go with the sandwich.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: The Western Diet [Re: Rahz]
#28379869 - 06/30/23 07:25 AM (6 months, 26 days ago) |
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hard to chicken and egg the whole McDonalds and Nestle empires - what caused what, but the whole basis of our economy (and freemarket diet) deserves some fresh eyes https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/business/neoliberalism-free-market-research.html
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