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Moria841



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2023 Season wild Panaeolus spp. thread 3
#28372608 - 06/24/23 11:30 AM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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 Got my lawn Panaeolus game on today after a good amount of steady rains, everyones' lawns here in the suburbs are just blowing up with Panaeolus and the occasional Conocybe. Tons of foenisecii, but I was able to snatch a Panaeolus (that at least I call) fimicola. Tried to get some decent photos so that we can all compare our active lawn pans macroscopically.
I also noticed something specific with this species in terms of the gills, especially compared to foes-- almost every specimen I've collected has very "widely notched" gills, with a sloping curve inwards starting about a third or half-way into the cap. I'm not sure if the pictures show it well, but you can sort of see what I mean on the righthand side of the gill shot.
Angler, what did we say we were gonna do with these again? Collect a shit ton and eat them all?
Edited by Moria841 (06/28/23 07:01 PM)
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Nitro87
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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Moria841]
#28373073 - 06/24/23 05:00 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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-------------------- Life is worth living
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Unknownfungi
Amateur mycologist



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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Nitro87]
#28373094 - 06/24/23 05:16 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Nice finds! I'm on the hunt as well.
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Pentacorn
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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Moria841]
#28373295 - 06/24/23 07:34 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Yes! Quote:
Moria841 said:...Collect a shit ton and eat them all? 

Way ahead of you friend! Haha. There has to be well over 200 dried Panaeolus lightly packed in this jar and it isn't even half full. I'm going to fast for 24 hours then eat it all. I want to make a tea because eating this many wild raw mushrooms seems like a bad idea, but I'm afraid I might miss out on some hidden alkaloids that aren't water soluble.

I had two pieces of tinfoil covered in Panaeolus caps from three separate lawns within a mile radius. All were foenisecii. Then I ran into a newly watered lawn at a park that was absolutely covered in Panaeolus:

I was out of state but still managed to cover three paper plates with caps that revealed totally random colors (below photo). Most were blackish but had hints of brown on the edges. The others were the usually foenisecii-brown. I also noticed that some caps had gills that were blackish while others were brown. I'm not sure if this was due to old age or potentially a different species?

THEN! I found a newly-sodded park lawn 30 miles away that had a few beautiful looking brown caps (below photo). One of the caps was jet black and I saved it separately if anyone wants to run it under a microscope.
(IMAGE DELETED)
I tossed ALL of the above mushrooms into the jar for later consumption (for science!!!). Part of the reason why I'm hesitant to consume the full jar is because some of the caps were very fragile and I'm afraid they were old/rotting and I'm going to give myself food poisoning. Either that or I didn't notice I grabbed some caps from a different genus (psytharella?) and I could actually poison myself.
-------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- WILD LAWN PANAEOLUS - ACTIVE OR NOT? See discussion here: Panaeolus Identification
Edited by Pentacorn (06/28/23 12:17 PM)
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Unknownfungi
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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Pentacorn]
#28373312 - 06/24/23 07:44 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Definitely a few species of Panaeolus you've got there. I confidently see foenisecii and cinctulus. The ones on the foil all look like Panaeolus.
The alkaloids you're looking for are highly water soluble. I agree a tea would be the best option. Use as little water as possible. Boil for 15 minutes and you shouldn't have any problem with bacteria. I'd recommend weighing out the dose beforehand and not doing too much as cinctulus isn't that weak.
Next time I'd toss any that printed with any shade of brown as no psychoactive Panaeolus prints brown to my knowledge. Jet black is what you're looking for.
Your a brave soul and I wish you luck. Let us know how it goes.
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Moria841



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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Unknownfungi]
#28373359 - 06/24/23 08:26 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Side by side foe vs. fimic for anyone struggling with ID without spore printing!
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Lucis
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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Moria841]
#28373472 - 06/24/23 10:32 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Why not Panaeolus cinctulus?
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Moria841



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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Lucis]
#28373552 - 06/25/23 12:26 AM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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I think P. cinctulus isn't a true lawn pan, i think they only grow from manure or manure-fertilized lawns, which these were definitely not
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Anglerfish
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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Moria841]
#28373594 - 06/25/23 02:08 AM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Hey, seems I'm late to the party. 
They still have yet to pop up in my area, but not far away at any rate.
Quote:
Moria841 said: Angler, what did we say we were gonna do with these again? Collect a shit ton and eat them all? 
My thought is to keep some for study, and if they're numerous enough, perhaps volunteer for a bio assay.
At least I'd like to get someone to check a few under the microscope, I have seen pictures of confirmed P. olivaceus that resemble my own finds.
Here are a few photos from some years back that I managed to find:
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Pentacorn
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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Unknownfungi]
#28373699 - 06/25/23 05:46 AM (10 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Anglerfish said:
At least I'd like to get someone to check a few under the microscope, I have seen pictures of confirmed P. olivaceus that resemble my own finds.
Are you saying that all of those photos are indeed P.olivaceus?
Quote:
Moria841 said:

Side by side foe vs. fimic for anyone struggling with ID without spore printing!
So can I safely assume that fimic gills turn dark (almost black) in age while foe stays brown like in your photo?
Quote:
Unknownfungi said: Next time I'd toss any that printed with any shade of brown as no psychoactive Panaeolus prints brown to my knowledge. Jet black is what you're looking for.
My original goal was to make a tea from 30g of P.foenisecii just to see what happens. I've read stories of guys eating 50g with zero effect so my goal was to cure my own curiosity. But as I started finding the mixed groupings I think stems got mixed up and I ended up just tossing it all into a jar. Does anyone think there is a species difference between caps that print medium-brown and caps that print blackish-brown? Because honestly, I only found TWO caps from all of those mushrooms that were jet black and I saved both of them for microscopy purposes.
Quote:
Unknownfungi said: Boil for 15 minutes and you shouldn't have any problem with bacteria...
At what point does boiling destroy psilocybin?
-------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- WILD LAWN PANAEOLUS - ACTIVE OR NOT? See discussion here: Panaeolus Identification
Edited by Pentacorn (06/25/23 05:49 AM)
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Anglerfish
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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Pentacorn]
#28373707 - 06/25/23 05:55 AM (10 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pentacorn said:
Quote:
Anglerfish said:
At least I'd like to get someone to check a few under the microscope, I have seen pictures of confirmed P. olivaceus that resemble my own finds.
Are you saying that all of those photos are indeed P.olivaceus?
No, I don't really know what species they are, although I'm pretty sure they're not P. cinctulus. I lean towards P. fimicola, but have noticed pictures of P. olivaceus looking very similar.
So the conclusion is still waiting.
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Pentacorn
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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Anglerfish]
#28373769 - 06/25/23 07:15 AM (10 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Anglerfish said: So the conclusion is still waiting.
Well then my #1 mycological priority is to sort my wild Panaeolus finds based on spore color and photograph the macro features so that I can search for minute differences as Moria did in the original post. Maybe someone awesome will volunteer to analyze the DNA for us
-------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- WILD LAWN PANAEOLUS - ACTIVE OR NOT? See discussion here: Panaeolus Identification
Edited by Pentacorn (06/25/23 09:39 AM)
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Moria841



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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Pentacorn]
#28373975 - 06/25/23 10:55 AM (10 months, 18 days ago) |
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Yes the gills will turn a smokey-dark black colour, and the foes might get pretty close, but the fimicola (that's what I'll just be calling my finds for the time being, there might be other species to consider like olivaceous as Angler pointed out) will get much darker much more quickly.
Also, note the differences in the caps, which will save you the time bending over to grab every Panaeolus to look at the gills
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Anglerfish
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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Moria841]
#28374807 - 06/26/23 04:33 AM (10 months, 17 days ago) |
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I gathered a bunch of pictures of microscopically confirmed finds of both P. fimicola and P. olivaceus. All from various locations in Norway within the last 10 years or so.
None of the pictures are mine, just putting them up for macroscopical comparison and to illustrate the fact that they're not always easy to distinguish from one another.
Panaeolus fimicola:

Panaeolus olivaceus:
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Pentacorn
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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Anglerfish]
#28374844 - 06/26/23 05:32 AM (10 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Anglerfish said: I gathered a bunch of pictures of microscopically confirmed finds of both P. fimicola and P. olivaceus.

Absolutely wonderful! Thanks for putting in the time to find all these photos.
-------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- WILD LAWN PANAEOLUS - ACTIVE OR NOT? See discussion here: Panaeolus Identification
Edited by Pentacorn (06/26/23 07:13 AM)
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Pentacorn
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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Pentacorn]
#28374849 - 06/26/23 05:43 AM (10 months, 17 days ago) |
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So I found a bunch of black spored Panaeolus on June 25th at the exact same spot that I found only Panaeolus foenisecii just a week ago.

When I spore printed them I noticed, as Moria explained above, it was incredibly easy to distinguish which cap would have brown spores and which would have black spores. A photo is worth a thousand words:

Quote:
Moria841 said: almost every specimen I've collected has very "widely notched" gills, with a sloping curve inwards starting about a third or half-way into the cap.
I'd have to agree with Moria yet again. I think my photo above does a great job of illustrating this "widely notched" gills on the black spored pan versus the no-notch gills of the P.foenisecii.
...Also, as I prepare to ingest a half jar full of these I am again reminded of how stupid it may be to eat them raw since I found two tiny worms under the cap wiggling around this morning. A few of the caps look like they have worms that were eating trails under the cap surface. I fear that boiling will ruin some alkaloids making it hard to compare the effects to genre that I'm more familiar with such as Psilocybe and Gymnopilus. Anyone have any good suggestions?
-------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- WILD LAWN PANAEOLUS - ACTIVE OR NOT? See discussion here: Panaeolus Identification
Edited by Pentacorn (06/26/23 06:05 AM)
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bambus
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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Pentacorn]
#28374880 - 06/26/23 06:43 AM (10 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pentacorn said: So I found a bunch of black spored Panaeolus on June 25th at the exact same spot that I found only Panaeolus foenisecii just a week ago.

When I spore printed them I noticed, as Moria explained above, it was incredibly easy to distinguish which cap would have brown spores and which would have black spores. A photo is worth a thousand words:

Quote:
Moria841 said: almost every specimen I've collected has very "widely notched" gills, with a sloping curve inwards starting about a third or half-way into the cap.
I'd have to agree with Moria yet again. I think my photo above does a great job of illustrating this "widely notched" gills on the black spored pan versus the no-notch gills of the P.foenisecii.
...Also, as I prepare to ingest a half jar full of these I am again reminded of how stupid it may be to eat them raw since I found two tiny worms under the cap wiggling around this morning. A few of the caps look like they have worms that were eating trails under the cap surface. I fear that boiling will ruin some alkaloids making it hard to compare the effects to genre that I'm more familiar with such as Psilocybe and Gymnopilus. Anyone have any good suggestions?

Making tea will kill the bugs, but won't ruin the goods.
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Anglerfish
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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Pentacorn]
#28374910 - 06/26/23 07:14 AM (10 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pentacorn said: ...Also, as I prepare to ingest a half jar full of these I am again reminded of how stupid it may be to eat them raw since I found two tiny worms under the cap wiggling around this morning. A few of the caps look like they have worms that were eating trails under the cap surface. I fear that boiling will ruin some alkaloids making it hard to compare the effects to genre that I'm more familiar with such as Psilocybe and Gymnopilus. Anyone have any good suggestions?
Chow'em down, grubs and all.
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Longtimenosee


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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Pentacorn]
#28375012 - 06/26/23 08:38 AM (10 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
I tossed ALL of the above mushrooms into the jar for later consumption (for science!!!). Part of the reason why I'm hesitant to consume the full jar is because some of the caps were very fragile and I'm afraid they were old/rotting and I'm going to give myself food poisoning. Either that or I didn't notice I grabbed some caps from a different genus (psytharella?) and I could actually poison myself.

I do not think you have anything to worry about if there are Psytharella in the mix. I know a guy that hunts and eats Psytharella as an edible.
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AnTron



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Re: First Panaeolus fimicola of the year (Anglerfish look here) [Re: Longtimenosee]
#28375195 - 06/26/23 12:13 PM (10 months, 17 days ago) |
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Man. Can't wait to go out tomorrow and collect specimens to compare. Lots of good informatiom posted in this thread. I'll do some macro and micro shots. Should I start my own thread or post here?
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